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» The Celica Files   » Celica   » N/A Power   » Step by step TB upgrade (get ready to wait on this one) (Page 1)

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Author Topic: Step by step TB upgrade (get ready to wait on this one)
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 02:16 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I got bored today, so I began the process of converting john's 5sfe intake manifold to accept the TB from a 22RE. Many picts and details are to follow, but for starters:

5SFE TB: 1.965" or 49.911mm (call it 50mm)
22RE TB: 2.165" or 54.991mm (call it 55mm)

5SFE area: 3.04in2 or 1963mm2
22RE area: 3.68in2 or 2375mm2

More to come...

[ January 21, 2004, 06:42 PM: Message edited by: Schmleff ]

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
HyMoraltane
Spread the love
Member # 7335

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 04:03 PM      Profile for HyMoraltane     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
sweeet.

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'93 Celica GT Coupe, 161K miles, manual, black with the little dings and stuff.
Next Project: Upgrade electrical system with Optima Yellowtop, Lightning Audio battery terminals, 120amp Alt, and 4 gauge grounds.

Posts: 2460 | From: Rhode Island | Registered: Apr 2003  |  IP: Logged
schreindogg
ST Crew
Member # 2662

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 05:03 PM      Profile for schreindogg   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Sweet. I am in the process of fitting a 7MGTE throttle body that I got for free to my spare 5SFE manifold. I can get some pics this weekend if anyone is interested.

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Teal 1992 GT Liftback
-Konis & Eibachs
-Paceshitter header (will be gone soon)
-Custom intake
-2.5" Brullen catback
-Custom mandrel bent midpipe
-Project turbo almost complete - need plumbing, oil pan, and still undecided on what to use for timing control
For Full mods list, pics, and videos of car go to: http://schreindogg.gotdns.com/car/index.html

Posts: 143 | From: Vermilion, OH | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 06:32 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Here we go.

Side by side, it should not be too tough to tell which is which:

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In raw form:

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Bead blasted and coolant line junk removed:

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 06:33 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
In the lathe getting the first inlet step tapered:

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From this picture, you can see the inner step, and the screws, all of which are about to go away:

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Step gone, part of right screw remains:

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 06:35 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
22RE Manifold donating its mounting flange:

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After a spin on the lathe, we get this little gem:

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The stock 5S intake awaiting treatment:

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 06:36 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
After a bunch of time with a file, the manifold has been opened to the new 55mm dia. Adapter is sitting on it too:

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Here is what it will look like. I will Tig weld the adapter to the intake tomorrow. Then I just have to open the ports up on the other side to match the head. Notice the Allison 250 turbine in the background. Can you say 318hp from 170 pound engine?

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hooligan
1992 ST184 GT sport-coupe
Member # 1894

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 07:14 PM      Profile for Hooligan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I wish I had access to a full machine shop like that...

Looks awesome, Jeff!

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Posts: 5806 | From: Eau Claire, WI (HOME), Madison, WI (SCHOOL) | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
John L
Frank'n 5th Gen
Member # 6767

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 07:15 PM      Profile for John L     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Eek!]

You rule. I thought the TB was bigger then that? Guess not. It looks nothing less then awesome.

John L.

Posts: 732 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 08:06 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by schreindogg:
Sweet. I am in the process of fitting a 7MGTE throttle body that I got for free to my spare 5SFE manifold. I can get some pics this weekend if anyone is interested.

after hogging out the manifold for the 55mm, you will be hard pressed to find enough metal to remove to fit a 65mm tb, if that is what the measurement is.

What have you measured as the narrowest part of the tb? I ran into the egr stud just going to 55, you will surely have to remove the stud for your tb.

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Drag0n
/yourself
Member # 4918

Icon 1 posted January 21, 2004 09:29 PM      Profile for Drag0n     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
[Thumbs Up]

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--NICK--
AIM= Drag0n Celi <<<with a zero

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Posts: 22709 | From: new lenox | Registered: Aug 2002  |  IP: Logged
Medivh @ 0psi
Resident Beamer
Member # 2202

Icon 1 posted January 22, 2004 12:08 AM      Profile for Medivh @ 0psi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
rock

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отверженец

Posts: 1816 | From: Fond du Lac, WI -- probebly means "boredom" in french | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dr.Auto
GT Crew
Member # 8088

Icon 1 posted January 22, 2004 02:16 PM      Profile for Dr.Auto     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Jeff!!!
I am very impressed, I wish I had access to all that equiptment too. Theres alot of stuff I'm doing that I have to pay somone elst to do and I can't afford to purchase equiptment like that right now. I still need to figure out how to post pics here cause I have a few photos of my megasquirt project and my lightened flywheel project if any ones interested. Just can't figure out how to upload them.........Help??????

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One day a 225hp engine will be in my 1600lb auto cross car
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421455922/1.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421455922/0.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421455922/2.jpg

Posts: 454 | From: Billings Montana | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
Medivh @ 0psi
Resident Beamer
Member # 2202

Icon 1 posted January 22, 2004 06:06 PM      Profile for Medivh @ 0psi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Dr.Auto:
Jeff!!!
I am very impressed, I wish I had access to all that equiptment too. Theres alot of stuff I'm doing that I have to pay somone elst to do and I can't afford to purchase equiptment like that right now. I still need to figure out how to post pics here cause I have a few photos of my megasquirt project and my lightened flywheel project if any ones interested. Just can't figure out how to upload them.........Help??????

if you wanna send them to me ill put them up for you. hit me up on AIM medivh606

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отверженец

Posts: 1816 | From: Fond du Lac, WI -- probebly means "boredom" in french | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Dr.Auto
GT Crew
Member # 8088

Icon 1 posted January 23, 2004 08:56 PM      Profile for Dr.Auto     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hey thanks man...I'll sort through my pics and try to get them to you soon. This weekend is going to be really crazy but soon.......well as soon as I can.

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One day a 225hp engine will be in my 1600lb auto cross car
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421455922/1.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421455922/0.jpg
http://www2.freepichosting.com/Images/421455922/2.jpg

Posts: 454 | From: Billings Montana | Registered: Jul 2003  |  IP: Logged
catinhat
Die Katze im Hut
Member # 9240

Icon 14 posted January 24, 2004 01:23 PM      Profile for catinhat     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
That's awesome man! Thanks for the many pics to show your processes. The man has some mechanical skill. [Wiggle]
Posts: 28 | From: St. Marys, GA | Registered: Dec 2003  |  IP: Logged
Flyspyder55
retro-rice
Member # 7663

Icon 1 posted January 25, 2004 11:50 AM      Profile for Flyspyder55     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
the mk3 supra TB is 60mm. its a bolt on upgrade for 22re's so it shoudl work here too.

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"Got Rice?"
"Technology is the ONLY substitute for cubic inches"
"My addiction is delivered in pounds per square inch"
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Posts: 1115 | From: ocala florida | Registered: May 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 25, 2004 05:31 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
If the bolt pattern does indeed line up, that is good. I measured the TB size it its narrowist part. The stock is 50, not 55 as so many have stated. If the supra TB is 60mm, there will have to be more material removed from the intake manifold.

I have been working on smoothing the ID of tb as of friday with 120, 220 and 320 grit paper. Next is a buffing with a wheel and compound.

Someone please post some picts of a 3m TB!!!

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 26, 2004 08:58 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I just spent the weekend in Doniphan MO. Wow they got both kinds there, country and western.

Anyway, here is what I am talking about. In the folloing picture, you can see the sharpie line drawn on the intake. That is the material that needed to be removed to take advantage of the bigger TB. A total of 5mm, and that took a while to do. If you were to go to 60mm, wow, that would be close to the sides. You can take out the egr stud, but then you will have to weld a cover plate over the egr hole.

I did bid on a few MKIII supra TB's. Still waiting to get one cheap. I am willing to build our other stock manifold to accept the 60mm, and I will port and polish it too.

But this does leave me with 2 stock 5S TB's.... Hrmmm, what to do... I do have a spare 4afe intake manifold lying around...

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EDIT: Da, forgot to add picture

[ January 26, 2004, 08:59 PM: Message edited by: Schmleff ]

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
John L
Frank'n 5th Gen
Member # 6767

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2004 09:55 PM      Profile for John L     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Schmleff:
You can take out the egr stud, but then you will have to weld a cover plate over the egr hole.

Weld a cover plate over the egr hole? [HeHe] you didn't take a close look at the one thats on the car now did you? Matt and I used a part of a Montana license plate and JB weld to fix that.

Should we really scrap the 5S for the 3SGTE in the fall? My brain is having 2nd thoughts.
John L.

[ January 27, 2004, 09:58 PM: Message edited by: John L ]

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Posts: 732 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2004 10:00 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by John L:
quote:
Originally posted by Schmleff:
I just spent the weekend in Doniphan MO. Wow they got both kinds there, country and western.

Anyway, here is what I am talking about. In the folloing picture, you can see the sharpie line drawn on the intake. That is the material that needed to be removed to take advantage of the bigger TB. A total of 5mm, and that took a while to do. If you were to go to 60mm, wow, that would be close to the sides. You can take out the egr stud, but then you will have to weld a cover plate over the egr hole.

I did bid on a few MKIII supra TB's. Still waiting to get one cheap. I am willing to build our other stock manifold to accept the 60mm, and I will port and polish it too.

But this does leave me with 2 stock 5S TB's.... Hrmmm, what to do... I do have a spare 4afe intake manifold lying around...

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EDIT: Da, forgot to add picture

Weld a cover plate over the egr hole? [HeHe] you didn't take a close look at the one thats on the car now did you? Matt and I used a part of a Montana license plate to fix that.

Should we really scrap the 5S for the 3SGTE in the fall?
John L.

You and matt had the studs out? I never looked that close.

The 5S will have to live on in your gt.

Anyway, the tb is now mounted to the intake. She is soaking in a chemical bath for the night to get the rest of the oil and carbon out. I also made a block-off plate to get rid of the entire TB heat part. Picts tomorrow.

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
John L
Frank'n 5th Gen
Member # 6767

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2004 10:06 PM      Profile for John L     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Schmleff:
quote:
Originally posted by John L:
quote:
Originally posted by Schmleff:
I just spent the weekend in Doniphan MO. Wow they got both kinds there, country and western.

Anyway, here is what I am talking about. In the folloing picture, you can see the sharpie line drawn on the intake. That is the material that needed to be removed to take advantage of the bigger TB. A total of 5mm, and that took a while to do. If you were to go to 60mm, wow, that would be close to the sides. You can take out the egr stud, but then you will have to weld a cover plate over the egr hole.

I did bid on a few MKIII supra TB's. Still waiting to get one cheap. I am willing to build our other stock manifold to accept the 60mm, and I will port and polish it too.

But this does leave me with 2 stock 5S TB's.... Hrmmm, what to do... I do have a spare 4afe intake manifold lying around...

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EDIT: Da, forgot to add picture

Weld a cover plate over the egr hole? [HeHe] you didn't take a close look at the one thats on the car now did you? Matt and I used a part of a Montana license plate to fix that.

Should we really scrap the 5S for the 3SGTE in the fall?
John L.

You and matt had the studs out? I never looked that close.

The 5S will have to live on in your gt.

Anyway, the tb is now mounted to the intake. She is soaking in a chemical bath for the night to get the rest of the oil and carbon out. I also made a block-off plate to get rid of the entire TB heat part. Picts tomorrow.

I don't think we took the studs out, I didn't see any in there? We just covered the hole.

Hummm, I was thinking of trading in the GT in the spring for a *cough* truck. We will see. I though you had plans of S/C the GT? Not with PAECO parts still in there I hope. My brain is hurting.
John L.

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Posts: 732 | From: Wisconsin | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 27, 2004 10:50 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
you might have to sell me the gt then.

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Hooligan
1992 ST184 GT sport-coupe
Member # 1894

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2004 03:04 PM      Profile for Hooligan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
Heh, I just got my 65mm TB today...I started laughing out loud when I saw how big it was.

John, you know how you were trying to get a pop can in your old TB? Well, you can toss one in here and there's even room for it to wiggle! [Laugh]

So now I don't know about this 65mm business...seems too large to me.

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Posts: 5806 | From: Eau Claire, WI (HOME), Madison, WI (SCHOOL) | Registered: Dec 2001  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2004 03:27 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
I am now trying to make the throttle position sensors work. The 22re uses a four wire system, with a variable resistor. The 5S and the 4A both use a three wire system. I have to figure this out. Anyone know anything DETAILED about TPSs?

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2004 03:29 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by Hooligan:
Heh, I just got my 65mm TB today...I started laughing out loud when I saw how big it was.

John, you know how you were trying to get a pop can in your old TB? Well, you can toss one in here and there's even room for it to wiggle! [Laugh]

So now I don't know about this 65mm business...seems too large to me.

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I may be wrong here, but dat ainaguna fit no 5S manifold.

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
BiscutWheels
Let me see if I can help
Member # 2611

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2004 06:05 PM      Profile for BiscutWheels   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
sure do...

there are 4 wires as you said.

- **** one is for the incoming signal
- **** one is for the idle position
- **** one is for the WTO position
- (n/a)one is for the inbetween positions

EDIT: you need the wires marked ****.

all you need to do is get the conector with sone pig tails and splice TPS wires to 5S-FE TPS connector wires. I don't have my manual here in my room (keep it in the car), but that is all you should have to do.

Nate

[ January 28, 2004, 06:07 PM: Message edited by: BiscutWheels ]

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1991 GT (5S-FE)

Items in the process of design and build (estimated time of completion):

-N/A intake manifold for the 5S-FE
-Al. strut tower brace for front
-Alternator relocation bracket
-5S-FE header for 5th gen celica's

drive fast, turn left
http://filebox.vt.edu/users/nmilliso/

Posts: 750 | From: Columbus, Oh (home) Virginia Tech (school) | Registered: Feb 2002  |  IP: Logged
Schmleff
Let me see if I can help
Member # 6805

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2004 08:49 PM      Profile for Schmleff   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
quote:
Originally posted by BiscutWheels:
sure do...

there are 4 wires as you said.

- **** one is for the incoming signal
- **** one is for the idle position
- **** one is for the WTO position
- (n/a)one is for the inbetween positions

EDIT: you need the wires marked ****.

all you need to do is get the conector with sone pig tails and splice TPS wires to 5S-FE TPS connector wires. I don't have my manual here in my room (keep it in the car), but that is all you should have to do.

Nate

OK, I have the colors of the wires based on a schematic. The problem I see is that the variable resistor is in the 225e circuit all of the time, when the 5S sees an open between idle and wot. So, just leave the wiper on the resistor open?

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Making NASCAR look slow on 200 CI (280+MPH).

Posts: 1577 | From: Home | Registered: Feb 2003  |  IP: Logged
Medivh @ 0psi
Resident Beamer
Member # 2202

Icon 1 posted January 28, 2004 11:13 PM      Profile for Medivh @ 0psi   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post   Reply With Quote 
hooligan, is that 65mm TB from a supra? if its too big for you hold on to it for a bit, i may have a use for it.

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отверженец

Posts: 1816 | From: Fond du Lac, WI -- probebly means "boredom" in french | Registered: Jan 2002  |  IP: Logged
Hooligan
1992 ST184 GT sport-coupe
Member # 1894

Icon 1 posted January 29, 2004 12:05 AM      Profile for Hooligan   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post