Pred

So Dave (a Celica owner) comes to the shop one day so Ricky can dyno his car. I was checking out his intake manifold (caldina motor) and told him I wanted something like that. He told me he used a 3SGE Intake manifold on his old Gen2 head. The 3SGE manifold came from a 87-89 2.0L Celica GTS. He said he bought it dirt cheap, and it was a good upgrade for Celicas. Some Celica owners do this mod to make simpler intercooler piping, and also Side-feed manifold. These manifolds go for about $25-$100. I managed to buy one from a salavge yard in SoCal for $100 (TPS, TB, EGR, TFFR).

Heres the manifold out of the box:

You can identify which manifold it is by the huge TVIS on the top.
Heres the Comparison between the 3SGE/3SGTE. Both thottlebodies,runners,flange everything is the same size

As you can see, the 3SGE Plentum is larger. everything else is the same!
Im going to bench test the manifold after i get it cleaned up a bit.

Bolted up to a 3SGTE Head. lots of clearnece. The Celica GTS uses a TFFR (which I have and can mate to my setup) It is quite large and I should beable to run 850's. It will require a custom bracket to bolt on but hey.. thats easy.

Pred

Exhaust Manifold Comparisons:
SSAutoChrome, SFP,Stock w/ATS Adapter

Pics of it installed:

This is the SFP Manifold with my GT3037R. As you can see there are some fitment issues. Another thing I noticed was the Wastegate flange is clocked wrong. I would cut it, reweld it and aim the dump tube straight down running between the tranny/block.
Stock manifold w/ATS's adapter (Thanks Aaron)

Better Fitment. can mount wastegate top or bottom.

I also weighed all the manifolds, and turbo. Ill post the #'s tomorrow.
I will post more pics as the project progresses.

flynhighaf23

good find on the intake manifold. i just cut my stock one and custom made a plenum with a side feed inlet, but my TB is on the other side (next to the cruise control which i no longer have). i always liked the SFP manifolds, but so save money i'm going to be using an adapter like that for my sc61 turbo after i get my car running. nice turbo, by the way...

Zeus

is it just me or do the runners inner diameters look slightly different... espescially on the two inside cylinders

Zeus

oh nm they look that way on the gte mani as well

*blush*

Pred

It's just you. I measured each one with a caliper gauge. Their exactly the same.
SPF Manifold needs some work, what can you expect for 400 bux. (im actually probably going to be using the stock manifold). I havent fit the SSAutochrome manifold on yet.... I will do that tomorrow. It will be the Manifold+ATS's Adaptor.+GT3037R.

Mr. SW20

Does the ats adaptor bolt on to a t3/t4 turbo?

flynhighaf23

yes. the ATS adapter bolts to the stock turbo manifold and any turbo with a T3 turbine housing (aka t3/t4).

like this:

stock manifold > ATS adapter > t3/t4 turbo

(sorry my diagram sux)

Mr. SW20

your diagram is good enough for me. Do they sell the adapter alone?

Pred

it's a T3 adapter.. so yeah.. what Flyin' said.

Any turbo with a T3 flange will bolt up, but not necessarly *Clear* the heatshield/tranny. I had to remove the little heatshield for the clutch slave line to make my turbo fit.

*edit*
No ATS does not sell the adaptor alone. Aaron allowed me to purchase one for R&D. Also this one is the "Celica" adapter design. It is not used in the newer TD05/TD06 kits they sell. They have a better design for that application.

Teyvareb

1. Will you be performing an engine dyno comparison between the two intake manifolds?
2. Will you be able to perform an a/f ratio comparison between both as well so as to see if the side-feed will even out individual cylinder ratios? In theory, it should, but theories are useless until proven.

Pred

If my Hoover lets me, yes.. I have a Load Control Dyno in the shop. Also it depends if Ricky's up to doing it also.

Same as above.

boostd4

So does the 3SGE intake manny clear a stock fuel rail.. or perhaps a wolfkatz sidefeed rail? What about the ISC?

I'd need to see some overhead shots but it seems to me, that this intake manny would be PERFECT for the topmount IC that's been in threads lately... talk bout ZERO IC piping.. about 6 inches from the compressor, then another 10 inches to the TB... plus bigger plenum? Sounds like it'd be an AWESOME setup for a 350-400whp goal (IC being the limitting factor?).

__________________
Boostd4

Pred

it should clear stock fuel rail. I didnt take off my Wolfkatz fuel rail yet so I will find out tomorrow. It will clear.. for sure i know it. I can also use the 3SGE Celica GTS TFFR also. This will give me a larger selection of injector sizes. My stock fuel rail is at home so I wont have that until next Monday. I can test fit it.

I recently sold my Top mount setup =*( But I made it so I know where it sits, I can mock it up really quick..

boostd4

I'm thinking this IC setup: http://mr2oc.com/showpost.php?p=1130806&postcount=8 , and that sidemount manifold would make an awesome pair.

And there are nearly identical A2W setups with the IC in the same spot. Would be very convenient to have the TB on that side of the engine.

Pred

here's my old Top mount setup.

My piping would be a "straight shot" into the TB...

Mr. SW20

looks like its gonna be a good set up.

Pred

Oh, another difference in the throttle bodies is the mounting points. Longer cable is most likely going to be required. I can use a cable off of a NA MR2 w/out cruise control (it's longer).

mr20nza

wow, that will reduce the piping over half a foot+

__________________

IndyHP
93^turbo
Winged Warrior II - Performance Challenge and Car Show - June 3rd, Indy

Pred

actually, try 3feet. your forgetting Turbo=>IC inlet. My old topmount was 5" from turbo =>IC

boostd4

What about idle speed controller? Not a problem if the 3SGTE TB bolts directly on, but I noticed in the pics that the 3SGTE manny has a keyway cut at the bottom of the TB hole. I believe this is for the ISC, right? What would you do about that?

Pred

i'll post pics of both throttle bodies tomorrw. It has that ISC that your talking about next to the water lines.. there's 3 big hoses comming out of the tb. 2 carry coolant, 1 looks like vaccum (ISC your reffering too?). Both throttle bodies have both. everything hose/line is identical.. just different location.

boostd4

Yea, that would be the ISC. I was thinking you were planning on bolting the 3SGTE TB to the corolla manny. You're planning on using the corolla TB?

The ISC hole I was referring to is on the manifold itself.. if you look at the large intake hole for the TB on the 3SGTE, there is a rectangular cutout at the bottom of the hole for the ISC to feed air around the the TB to control idle. I can't see that on the corolla manifold. Not an issue if you use a corolla TB, I guess.. just figuring out how to make it the most economically feasible.

So these mannies come from 87-89 *USDM* Celica GTS's?