rascaca

I think you need to study a little. First i don't understand why fuel and timing map will falls off after 12psi since people wanting this mod will have either an small upgraded Turbo or a ct20b. Boost cut it not at 16 psi but at 18-19 psi.
only downside is the speedo limit at 120 but what is the point on getting over 120mph, even on the quarter you will not reach that trap speed(with a small turbo).
Also, you don't need a gen3 harness to run this setup.

rascaca

fedex

jebsleo

Justin311

I said I won't post about the debate anymore, everybody realizes this swap is a silly idea and canadia-caca boy up there is wrong.... I will gladly post to reveal the facts as I always do, whether wrong or right



I never said ATS would modify the GenIII ECU. I meant one would have to modify.... meaning modification would be required to efficiently boost above the OEM fuel and timing map ceiling (whether its 12, 16 or 18 psi). Send the ECU to santa clause for all I care....you'd still have to do it to make it on the same level as an EMS.



Really? Do you have any proof of this? The 94/95 USDM ECUs have fuel maps to 12 psi and fuel cut at 18 psi. From 12 to 18 they are dumping fuel in an effort to keep the engine from running lean, and it is a SAFETY MEASURE, and makes for horrible AFRs above 12 psi. I have a hard time beleive that Toyota had one set of rules for their USDM ECUs, yet used a whole other set of rules for the JDM and provided maps all the way to fuel cut (18psi) on the JDM 94/95s. PLease provide proof of this and I will gladly tell you I was wrong and learned something. And while you're at it, explain to me what MINEs is doing modifying GenIII ECUs if they already have fuel maps to 18psi. What good does a MINEs tune do for you?!?? huh huh huh?



I'm sorry I misquoted 16 instead of 18, I got rid of fuel cut a long time ago and haven't worried about that silly stock fuel cut. I guess those of you canadians still running your slowa$$ stock turbo have to worry about the exact number

My point has nothing to do with the actual number where fuel cut occurs, its the fact that it exists (along with the fuel MAPS) at a lower level than is attainable with an EMS, and therefore the genIII ecu is a poor choice compared to the similarly priced EMS.

JimKing

Did anyone mention that the Gen3 ECU wouldn't control your TVIS butterflies for you, either?

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Justin311

We know buddy, we know...its OK

Justin311

Good catch, yet another reason this is a bad idea

Akane

That'll be me, 1.5 bar. no issues except the ceramic wheel falling off a few months afterwards but that has nothing to do with the ECU.

rascaca

Its weird, they had a different set of rules for the engine...but never changed the maps, they used the same has gen2 since it was easier like that..

GO study, go study...






I hope you know that stock boost on gen3 is 14 psi... and from 12-14, the fuel is shooted at maximum rate... Also notice where the fuel cut on gen2 is and where it is on gen3 maybe it will give you an idea where the maps go up to...





Did i say I'm Ironic sometimes.....

rascaca

this is a really easy mod to do, just need to make it always open.

Chris

Mistertwo94t

What issues have you seen that support your statement? I've seen more than a couple dyno sheets of lightly modded Gen 3's boosting above 12psi. The air/fuel ratio was still pretty rich and the owners didn't have any issues w/ detonation, several on pump gas.


No one ever claimed it would run efficiently at higher boost levels and said it would be on the same level as a full stand alone EMS. You originally said:


It just isn't necessary. You may not run efficiently, but it's not like you'll blow your engine doing it. People have put down some decent numbers doing it too.


Fuel cut on a 94+ USDM Turbo is not 18psi. It's 16psi. I know this because I own a USDM 94 Turbo and have seen it for myself. Don't you own a 94 Turbo? I'm running above 12psi on my stock ECU and it does run pretty rich, but I haven't had any issues doing so. Then again my MAP sensor is unplugged so how does the ECU know I'm running more than 12psi. It doesn't and doesn't have to since it's an AFM based ECU. It's incorrect to say the Gen 2 ECU is tuned up to a certain boost pressure. Mines does what every other shop that does ECU reflashes, chips, etc. does. They provide a more aggressive tune compared to the stock ECU for enhanced performance.


A similarly priced ECU will also require tuning w/ a wideband O2 sensor and some dyno time. IMO, for people w/ goals that don't exceed the limits of a Gen 3 ECU and fuel system and just want a simpler EMS upgrade, the Gen 3 ECU isn't that bad of an option. It may not be the best or most cost effective option, but IMO it's not as "silly" or worthless as you make it out to be.


It's been proven that the stock Gen 2 ECU doesn't do all that great of a job of controlling the TVIS. Controlling it w/ a rpm switch and or just unplugging it like rascaca said isn't that hard to do.


I think you misread my post. There wasn't every any mention of 1/4 mile times. I originally wanted the Gen 3 ECU conversion because my goals wouldn't excede the limits of the Gen 3 ECU and fuel system.

KBlake

Yeah, but then you lose spool, and free torque.

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Justin311

The issue is: YOU ARE ROBBING YOURSELF OF POWER, and TELLING SOMEBODY TO REWIRE HIS ENTIRE CAR AND SPEND A GRAND ON SOME CRAPPY OEM ECU in order to cheat himself, is a horrible way to give advice. Nobody said he'd blow up his car. It will run fine. It will not run efficiently. GenIII owners have a great ECU to work with. It runs their car fine. But to spend a grand and a buttload of time to run "fine" is just stupid.




I was boosting 17 psi on my genII 94 USDM ecu for a year. Never hit fuel cut once. I don't know nor care where exactly genII fuel cut is. Having had no issues, please post your dyno plot showing decent numbers. I'd love to see the gobs of power you're making "above 12 psi" please.




If you think this is "simpler" than a plug and play SDR, I would ask you...how many SDRs have you installed? How many GenII->GenIII ECU conversions have you done? You guys are all basing your opinions off of heresay. There are quite a few *free* 3SGTE base maps out there that will run the car just as well and even better than a GenIII ecu would.

Would somebody close this thread? It is obvious nobody in here has done what they say can be done. My opinion is it is not cost effective, theirs is that it is. They have no proof, neither do I. Why keep it going?

GenIIIMrDuece

Does anyone have a pic of the gen3 map sensor? i could really use one right about now

David

rascaca

Check your own ( )advice on this thread...

Justin311

OK. Post me a source that shows a) the cost of a complete GenIII ECU setup to convert a genII over, installed and b) a dyno plot of a stock GenIII ECU system outperforming an SDR EMS with a basic tune and I'll admit my advice doesn't stand.

Until then, stfu.

In fact, what experience DO you have modifying the 3SGTE, much less the GenIII? It seems to me, from all of your posts, and the ET in your sig, that you have a pretty stock setup. Have you ever installed an EMS? Have you ever retrofitted a GenII to GenIII? Do you install your own GenIII swaps that you pedal? Have you ever visted a dyno? I'm wondering where you get all this glorious knowledge?? I guess I'll just assume you're a troll from now on, until I start seeing some hard numbers from your claims.

Mistertwo94t

I've got one that I can take a picture of. I can try and do it tomorrow. Just shoot me an email to remind me. byun@sc.rr.com

Justin311: No one ever said the Gen 3 ECU conversion was cost effective. I actually said the opposite in one of my threads. No one ever said it would perform better than a SDR. What rascaca and I were arguing is this:



Why are you getting so fired up about this anyway? We're just having a discussion here. That is what this board was for right? If you can't handle people disagreeing with you then just stop reading and replying to this thread.



You wouldn't have to rewire your entire car to convert a Gen 2 to a Gen 3 ECU. It can be done as simply as it is to install a plug-n-play ECU. I planned on having RickyB make me a plug-n-play adaptor harness to run a Gen 3 ECU. You're right. No one said anyone would blow their car up.



I never said I was putting down decent numbers. I said people w/ Gen 3's boosting above 12psi were.



What are you basing your opinions off of? Have you done a Gen 3 ECU conversion and seen how it ran? How do you know that the Gen 3 ECU "maps fall off" after 12psi? My opinions are based off of discussing the issue w/ people that have experience working w/ the Gen 3 including a few that have done the Gen 3 ECU conversion. I probably don't have as much hands on experience as you do and I really don't care.

jebsleo

I know Turbo_PePe performed the conversion. I had sold him the ecu and sensors a year ago. He made 33x rwhp with his T67 I believe.

Justin311

How much did you sell him the ECU and sensors for?

rascaca

I have my mechanic degree(cars/light trucks)done and even worked 3 weeks for toyota dealer(to after find a better$$$ job elsewhere). I've had 5 mr2 in 3 years. I currently have 3 of them. All my car(s) were never touch by anothing guy than me(and my younger brother) in 3 years except for alignement and tires. My first mr2 is the one I did my gen3 swap at first using a gen2 harness(modified)(thats when i did my 13,26 quarter with stock setup at 16-17 psi). Then, i got a short to alternator(my fault on this one, bad solder) and replaced the engine harness to a gen3 one using a gen2 body harness. I've done a few NA-gen2 turbo swap and have removed several engines from halfcuts(both gen2 and gen3). I've had PFC for some time but didn't like it because of lack of Knock retard. Anyway, just wiring up my gen3 with gen2 harness made me know how its done. My only complain about your advice was not based on facts and thats it.

Peace.

Chris

rascaca

they sell for around 600$ usd shipped

Justin311

I'm not fired up, I was used caps lock because its clear my point is not getting across. I don't disagree that it could be done. I don't disagree it would be an upgrade from the GenII. I do disagree that it is a better route to go than just purchasing an EMS.



Perhaps you should look up the phrase "rewire"? Or does ricky make his plug and play boxes with noodles and paperclips?



Nope, I also haven't run my car into a brick wall. Do I still know what would happen? Yes. Am I going to do it to prove a point? No. I will still, however, save somebody else the money and trouble of doing all the work and expecting a great running car boosting 18 psi.



I don't "know the maps fall off". I am making an educated guess based off of my dyno sessions with GenII ECUs, and Toyota's m.o.. So far nobody has provided proof otherwise. Only that somebody made 330 hp with a T67. That is all fine and dandy, except the T67 is a 500 whp turbo, and making 330 hp doesn't mean its making power based off of proper AFR tuning (by Toyota), it means you're shoving enough air in the engine to counteract the fuel dump thats occuring.

If your opinions are all based off of what you read or hear, perhaps you should roll up your sleeves and stop bench racing.

Justin311

Thank you, thats all I've been waiting for. Now lets add Ricky's plug and play box ($200 minimum) and some 540 injectors which are necessary to run a GenIII ECU ($175).

$600 + $200 + $175 = $975.

There is a used SDR in the FS section right now for $900. Go save $75 and get some real engine control.

Peace.

rascaca

hey, i hope you understand that 330 whp was done on 550 cc...




well, i think you should read more IMO...

Justin311

Fair enough, I'll trust your advice then, sounds like you've done more engine loom rewiring work than me...and I don't wish that on anybody

My only complaint with your advice was it sounded like you were trying to sell your product (GenIII ECU and sensors) rather than give this guy a complete picture.

Peace.

Justin311

Not sure why the injector size has anything to do with it? What are you trying to prove with that statement? Anything over ~300 whp had BETTER have 550s, or you're playing with fire.

I read enough to get a degree in mechanics as well, and I do this stuff for a partial living. But I'll always read more, as should everybody.

rascaca

you would still have to buy injectors if you use your SDR. And, there is no harness needed, just a little read on wiring diagrams will do the work.
Also Does your SDR comes with a 550cc maps

Chris

ramicio

justin311 and others are being wrong here. yes the jdm 94-up ecus would have different maps above 12 psi. they are gen3, and programmed differently. on the usdm ecu, it doesn't have to be at any set psi, it is at a certain amount of airflow. i bet you the gen3 ecu has maps all the way up to fuel cut, because they have sufficient fuel to control the afr the thing about the gen3 ecu is if you want to get past fuel cut, you can't. since the MAP sensor fuels the car and engages fuel cut, you can't change the signal with an fcd, or your afr will be off whack.

gen2 ecu < gen3 ecu < EMS

it is your choice, but i tell you that you could have a fully programmable ecu for as much money it would cost you to put in a gen3, and probably way less time if you get a plug n play unit.

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rascaca

you said that the t67 is a 500 whp turbo but not on 550cc.