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  1. #1
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    Default Stir the pot a bit -- ST246 swaps

    I see these are currently all the rage in the MR2 community. Very readily available, cheap and are 95% identical to a ST215. There are some internal difference (rings, etc) but overall are vastly identical to a Gen4 swap.

    The only difference -- is in the electronics. The ST246 utilizes an engine immobilizer within the ECU. No paired keyfob/transponder -- ECU no worky worky and no swap starting.

    Couple options I've seen to resolve this involve doing a full standalone ECU, buy a keyfob, transponder, new igintion cylinder (to match keyfob), get dealer to program transponder/keyfob to ECU, and I've seen that TCS is able to remove the transponder from the ST246 ECU (effectively making it a ST215 swap).

    I guess the question becomes is this worth it? For sake of ease, I'd probably do the TCS route. Since I'll be sending the harness over to MR220v for conversion, the ECU may as well go out to.

    I could always just do a gen4 swap again -- but that's looking in the 1500-1800 price range right now for me to pick one up locally. Online is still in the 1500 range after shipping and damn import fees.

    If the cost to swap the ECU out is nominal, may as well do the gen5 swap, pick it up locally for 900 (I've been negotiating with an importer right now saying it's useless without keyfob and transponder due to the immobilizer).

    Not like anyone here drives a celica anymore -- but throwing it out here for discussion.
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  2. #2
    Resident Japexican Ninjaneer
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    I thought that they had cracked the 246 ECU to disable the immobilizer.

    It was part of the reason for the uptick in using the engine.
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  3. #3
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli's Avatar
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    Yeah that's what I've been reading about too. I got in contact with TCS and they'll do it for a nominal cost. It'll be worth it though even if the importer locally won't discount due to the transponder missing. A gen4 motor from them is 1300 and gen5 is 949.
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  4. #4

    Violence and Sin Keeps Me Fearless

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    There is a good chance the importer knows that the ECU can be hacked.

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  5. #5

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    Wow, if that’s the case go Gen. 5. My only gripe would be the center throttle body .

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  6. #6
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli's Avatar
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    I'm not concerned about it. I have a fee routing ideas for the charge pipes to avoid extended heat soak.

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  7. #7
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of
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    Default

    It's usually not too hard to bypass them, you have to for remote start systems, most stereo/alarm shops know how.


    I'd be far more interested to see it use the sensors and PCM from something with easy tuning accessibility.
    I really like the way aaawelder put it: "do not include yourself in this circuit"

  8. #8
    Senior Member underscore is a jewel in the rough underscore is a jewel in the rough underscore is a jewel in the rough
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    Default

    What's the overall difference in cost to get the end result you want? The $350 saved up front could get chewed through pretty fast by other stuff.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrWOT View Post
    It's usually not too hard to bypass them, you have to for remote start systems, most stereo/alarm shops know how.
    Those usually involve a device which clones the code from one of your keys though, which isn't much help if you don't have any of the keys.
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  9. #9
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by underscore View Post
    What's the overall difference in cost to get the end result you want? The $350 saved up front could get chewed through pretty fast by other stuff.

    Those usually involve a device which clones the code from one of your keys though, which isn't much help if you don't have any of the keys.
    The St215 and ST246 are basically the same. It'll take the same work one way or another. I'm sending the harness out to get done. That price doesn't change. The only 'saving' is not having to pay the $125 for the immobilizer removal with a gen4. You're also on point about the keys -- it needs a transponder and the coded keys to work. That all can be purchased for a couple hundred. I'd rather spend $125 and get it removed from the ECU.
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  10. #10
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli's Avatar
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    Damn importer is out for a few months they're saying now. He's expecting a shipment in 90 days with more. Guess I'll just start on the brakes and bearings while I wait....
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  11. #11

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    Well, what did you end up going with?

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  12. #12
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pintoBC_3sgte View Post
    Well, what did you end up going with?
    Still leaning to the 215. Haven't purchased an engine yet but have supporting ducks lined up for the 215.
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  13. #13

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    Nice! On the plus side, it’s a swap that you’ve done before!

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  14. #14

    Violence and Sin Keeps Me Fearless

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    There is a running pool that Chaos will be running properly before Tim's... Just saying. I don't have any money either way, but I could be bought to throw it either way...

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  15. #15
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli has a reputation beyond repute 4thgenceli's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Murgatroy View Post
    There is a running pool that Chaos will be running properly before Tim's... Just saying. I don't have any money either way, but I could be bought to throw it either way...
    Hahha -

    Hey - at least i'm only a year deep on the Blazer - and I'm just waiting on one damn part to get it back together.
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  16. #16

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    Just make sure you get the OBD2 port wired in and functional with whatever swap you go with.

    I havent seen any real issues using 246s. I like the intake manifold design of the 215 better. I have read a few differences on the engines themselves. I believe the 246 is a stronger engine. I dont remember specifics though.
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    This thread is gayer than Richard Simmons singing a duet with Elton John in a bath house.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luni View Post
    Just make sure you get the OBD2 port wired in and functional with whatever swap you go with.

    I havent seen any real issues using 246s. I like the intake manifold design of the 215 better. I have read a few differences on the engines themselves. I believe the 246 is a stronger engine. I dont remember specifics though.
    Yeah - that's another beast there. Supposedly Wiregap doesn't do harnesses anymore (haven't heard back from them yet confirming/denying this statement but seeing as how it's been a week with no response...). One of the new players I've heard of is DIY Auto Spec. Not overly fond of how they casually bashed other people's work (saying two harnesses are just mashed together and tied with tape) and I can't seem to get a clear answer from them on what the process looks like.

    This place sends new connectors and wire to you. From an email -
    That’s correct, you do not need either of the factory harnesses to use our system.



    You’re almost there with the connectors and the wires though. We assemble the connectors on the engine side into mini “reverse” flying lead harnesses, with that you route the wires however you what to tuck the harness, apply the loom, and terminate the ECU side once your happy with the layout. Our software will generate you a custom pin to pin instruction book, that’s illustrated, and color coded to the harness kits.
    If I understand it right it's just loose wiring that I connect to all spots on the wiring engine (injectors, oil pressure, alternator, etc) and then I terminate them on the ECU connectors. Good thing, new wiring. Bad thing - HUGE possibility of a fuck up and electrical nightmare. Guess my big concern that i"m trying to get answers on is does 'engine side' connectors include the fuse boxes as well.

    From a price standpoint, they're the same as others - quoted in the 450-550 range.
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