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  1. #26

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    Thanks for confirming Jeremy. That makes me feel better. I thought it would work but I wasn't 100% sure.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  2. #27

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    Time for an update.

    I'm getting close. I finished making up the wiring that I needed over the weekend. I had to get the adapter harness put together to get around the code 54 intercooler issue with the 205 ECU. Thanks to Alltracman I think I've got all of that worked out. The post that Jeremy put up with the diagram is the way around that. I made a harness that I spliced into the Berk harness. That went fine.

    A couple of things about the Berk harness. It makes this a simple process for the 90-91 wiring (I have a 90-91 JDM ECU so I had already repined the harness previously. With the stock 92-93, I really think it would be easy and cheaper to repin the plugs. They are pretty close to the 205 setup). First, on the one I got the FC pin on the 205 side was in the wrong place. It was in the spot for the intercooler water level sensor, LEV. Easy enough to fix by moving the pin but if I hadn't checked the harness this would have been a major pain. This may just have been a mistake on the one that I got but if you use the harness be sure to check that. Second, unlike the harness that Luni got, the wiring for the MAT and IAT are labeled and there on the 205 side but the are just cut wires and not connected to the VS and THA spots on the 185 side. Not a big deal but I was under the impression that they would be connected. Third the wire for the M+ pin is wired into the E2 pin. Not an issue if using the MR2 ECU but for the 205 this wire/pin is needed for the code 54 fix. Once again, not a big deal but something to be aware of if doing this conversion with the 205 ECU.

    I've got the ECU in, the harness hooked up to it and the extra wiring under the dash finished. I also got the converter harness for the gen2 MAP installed. The only things left are getting the connector pipe into the intake hoses and putting the IAT into that and getting the fuel rail put together with the 540 injectors and installed. I want to thank ChrisD and Luni for helping me out with the fuel rail issue. Luni hooked me up with a good stock one and ChrisD made me a hell of a deal on a WolfKatz. Once that's put together and installed I'll be ready to try to fire it up.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  3. #28

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    Haven't gotten much done so far this week. The recovery from the sinus surgery, while not as bad as I thought it would be, is taking a little more than I expected.

    Anyway, I got the fuel rail assembled. That went together pretty well. I've got it ready to go in. I have my AFM replacement pipe done and ready to finish putting in.

    Once I get the pipe and the fuel rail back in I'll be ready to fire up. Hopefully soon.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  4. #29

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    Got the AFM replacement pipe installed and taken care of.

    The part I've dreaded the most, putting the fuel rail back in, is not going so well. I've got the rail in and laying at an angle where it looks like it should be but I can't get the damn bolts to start. They're close, they go into the holes but they won't start into the threads. Everything I've found about putting it back in says to pull the wiring harness up and out. That has helped but it still won't go the rest of the way in.

    If anybody has any suggestions please feel free. I'm done for today I think but I really want to try and get it together tomorrow.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  5. #30

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    The fuel rail finally went in. That was a job. I finally got it in with the help of Norma, my cat, the Toyota Master Tech. She jumped up and sat on my back, took a look over my shoulder and then the rail dropped down into place and the bolts started. That was one thing down.

    I've got everything put back together and hooked up. Didn't have any fuel leaks. Hit the key and the engine turns over but no start. I'm pretty sure I'm getting fuel. My nose is still pretty missed up at the moment but I thought I could smell fuel. Something is off somewhere.

    I've got a couple other igniters that I may try but I'm going to go through the trouble shooting section first. I've got to double check the ECU pin out and make double sure that I did need to move that one wire in the Berk harness. If it's not the igniter or that wire, I figure I've got a long road ahead of me tracking this down.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  6. #31

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    Printed out the voltage diagnostics for the 3rd gen ECU. Everything is in spec except for the PIM voltage. It is showing to be at the 2nd gen level. I've got to go back and revisit my voltage reducer from that post on MR2OC. The other voltages are right where they should be.

    I guess I could have a fuel issue. No problem before but whose to say what has happened in the last month sitting.

    Opinions and suggestions gladly accepted.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  7. #32

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    Wrong igniter would allow you to start.

    Wrong MAP sensor would allow you to start. Your fault is somewhere else IMO.
    2000 Absolute Red Celica GTS 6-Spd
    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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  8. #33

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    Thanks Luni. That's what I thought. I changed the igniter to begin with to a 5S igniter. I thought I had read that it would work. I've got the 2nd gen MAP sensor but I did the voltage reducer that Eshiikai put up at MR2OC. It should work but I've got to double check that.

    I just checked a little while ago and I've got fuel through the filter any way. I'm going to go check in a minute and see if I've got spark. If I've got spark, not sure at this point where to go.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  9. #34

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    It lives! Some ass monkey had disconnected the coil wire from the distributor. Hooked that up and it runs. Not well, but is starts. It is PIIIIIG rich right now where the MAP sensor signal is double what it should be. It's probably dumping WOT fuel at idle at the moment. I've got to check that voltage divider I made and see what, if anything, it's doing. May have to rebuild that one. I need to check the sensor as well to make sure that it's good. I just found out a few months ago that the vacuum wasn't hooked to it. I'm guess that was a jack leg FCD. Any way, it's running. Now to get it running right.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  10. #35

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    Congratulations!
    - Mario
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  11. #36

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    Thanks Mario.

    I'm going to check the MAP sensor voltages today to see what's going on. I've also got a steady CEL right now. Not sure what's up with that. I can't get it to flash at all right now. I need to check to make sure that the 205 ECU doesn't impact the diagnostic terminal. I'm probably doing something wrong. I figure the light has something to do with the 205 WTA pins. I need to double check my adapter wiring for that to make sure that it is all correct. I looked at it several times before hand but I'm going to go back and make sure.

    If anyone is going to do this conversion, and it's not bad, go with the MR2 ECU. From what it looks like, it's basically the same swap but you don't have the WTA pins to deal with.

    More updates later today.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  12. #37

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    Got the MAP sensor issue taken care of. I had to remake my voltage divider. I had got the resistor backward the first time. Now it starts and runs half way decently. It's chugging and sputter some. Almost feels like a miss. Still running rather rich. I'm wondering if the 2nd gen map sensor conversion is going work as planned.

    It won't rev past 4000 so I'm wondering what's up with that. I'm going back out in a few minutes to see if I have a loose vacuum line anywhere. I thought I had them all taken care of but going to double check.

    Any ideas or suggestions welcome.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  13. #38

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    Went back out and checked the vacuum lines. Everything was good there.

    I'm thinking that my MAP sensor adapter experiment isn't working. I checked the voltages at the ECU with the car idling and I'm getting voltages of 2.3 at idle with a vacuum of about -12 or so PSI. Based on this graph of the MAP sensor voltages I should be around 1.3 volts or so.

    http://gtfour.supras.org.nz/mapsensor.htm

    If I give it much gas the voltages go up into the 3.3 to 3.6 range which should be for around 10-15 psi of boost and I'm never even getting to 0 vacuum/boost. The vacuum will come up to almost zero but never hit it. When you rev it up to around 4000 or so, there are strong fumes coming from the driver's side rear corner of the engine. I was afraid at first that it was the fuel rail not seated completely but I'm pretty sure it just heavy, rich exhaust fumes coming up from somewhere on that side.

    I'm thinking that with the 2nd gen MAP sensor, even with the voltage divider, I'm showing the ECU too much voltage and it is just dumping fuel. I'm getting some thin, black smoke at idle too, so I'm sure it's still running ridiculously rich.

    Thoughts?
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  14. #39

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    One more thing. Is pulling the codes the same process for the 3rd gen ECU as the 2nd? I'm getting a CEL but I can't get it to give me anything.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  15. #40

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    Not sure on the code issue nor the procedure for pulling on a 3rd gen ECU it should be the same though, but it sounds like you are pig rich and it is shuffling all the additional fuel through to the charcoal canister. Most likely what you are smelling. Do double check to make sure that it is all still intact with lines connected to it as well.
    I am trying to remember the issue that caused the 4k rpm thing. If I remember it I will post up. Luni likely knows what it is. I know a couple fellas that did swaps to 3/4 gen engines had something like this as well for a time, so maybe poke around in those threads and see if anything useful comes up.
    - Mario
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  16. #41

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    Reading codes is the same.
    You can also jump TE2 and E1 for a more sensitive diag mode, just like the 92/93.
    Are you sure all the Berk wires are right?
    Possibly the TE1 wire may not be connected right?
    Try grounding it right off the ECU [attach it to the stud by the ECU].

    Not revving pas 4K is usually the wrong igniter. But it may also be your MAP sensor issue. I would suggest fixing that before you put a lot of effort into chasing anything.

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  17. #42

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    Thanks guys. I'll double check the Berk harness for where it's going to on TE1/TE2. I've got to double check my harness. While I do have a 92 I was running a 90/91 JDM ECU so I have done some repinning but that part of the harness should still be there.

    As for the igniter, you're supposed to be able to use a 5SFE igniter, correct? I got it to rev to about 4400 or so. The igniter was the first thing that I thought of too but I have swapped it out yet. I pulled three from the Pic N Pull before I came back from San Antonio. They all three have 175 on them. They all came off of 5S Celicas. These should work provided they're good correct?

    I'm also thinking that it is dumping so much fuel that the ignition may not be able to over come that and won't rev any higher. I checked the voltages on PIM at the ECU and it was like 3.6 to 3.8 at 4000+ rpms. It had to be dumping a ton of fuel.

    It doesn't look like there are a lot of alternatives to the 3rd gen MAP sensor. From what I've been able to find there doesn't seem to be anything that is PNP out of the box. There are some threads around the interwebs about using GM MAP sensors, 2 bar or 3 bar, but they both require modifications. The 2 bar requires the same mod I've already done to the 2nd gen MAP. The 3 bar requires more mods to adjust the voltage up.

    I'm not sure what's wrong with the set up I've got at the moment. The voltages with the engine off and key on are in the range where their supposed to be at about 2.2 V. I checked the vacuum part of the sensor this morning and it held 15 psi of vacuum. I don't have a pressure pump but I would think that route would work as well. I guess I need to check the voltage coming off of the sensor with just the key on and pulling vacuum.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  18. #43

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    It's supposed to be a 6th gen 5S igniter.
    Maybe only certain years? Not sure on that. I know the P#s cross over all over the place, but they may not all work for the 3S.
    E2 is probably fine, if the engine starts. It's just ECU ground. Grounding TE1 [or 2] is what puts the ECU in check mode.

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  19. #44

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    Oh, never actually saw the part about the igniter needing to be a 6th gen. Damn, these are all 5th gen.

    Going to check the pin tomorrow and see what's going on with the diagnostics.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  20. #45

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    Went out this morning with the vacuum pump and the multimeter. With the adapter harness in place and just the key on, engine off, no vacuum, I got high readings through the adapter. Pull vacuum up to -15 psi and the voltage was well above 2V. I then checked the voltages BEFORE the voltage divider and the were LOWER than after. Pull the same vacuum and checked the voltages before the voltage divider and they were in the 1.4V range. After that I thought what the hell and took the voltage divider out completely and fired the car up. After about a minute or less, idles fine. Vacuum is at about -18 PSI where it normally runs and the PIM voltages at the ECU were in the correct 1.3V or so range.

    I'm thinking that I need to go back and modify my voltage divider. I've got the resisters in the right places (R1=330 ohms & R2=1800 ohms). I tested the divider on a 9V battery and it does work BUT I think when I installed it with the bullet connectors I have the R1 resistor on the wrong side of the R2 joint in the wire. I'm going to swap that around and see what I get.

    Still have to check the TE1 & TE2 pins and see what is going on with the diagnostics.

    More later.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  21. #46

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    Changed the position of the R1 resistor on the voltage divider and that fixed it. Voltages fell right in line with where they're supposed be and the car idles fine and runs.

    Took it for a test drive. It ran pretty well. It will boost but there is a stutter in the engine under boost and it wouldn't boost above 10 psi. Ran pretty good though.

    I got codes pulled. I'm getting 21, 24 (I thought I counted 3 blinks on the end but evidently not), 31, 34 and 54.

    Since the 54 is showing up, something in my adapter harness isn't exactly right so I have to look into that.

    The 21 was the oxygen sensor heater showing a short or not reading correctly under load. 24 is the IAT sensor. I've got to go back and check that I'm still getting voltage at the ECU. This looked OK the other day when I checked the ECU pins. 31 and 34 are related to the MAP sensor. I haven't reset the ECU from the beginning so I'm going to do that, run the car and then see what codes I have other than the 54.

    Making progress.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  22. #47

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    You move fast Mike. Good to hear that forward progress is being made.
    - Mario
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  23. #48

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    Mike, you definitely need the 6th gen igniter. You want 89621-16020 or 89621-26010
    2000 Absolute Red Celica GTS 6-Spd
    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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  24. #49

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    Thanks for the numbers Luni. I didn't have those numbers. I'm going to look for those after I get the new O2 sensor installed, it should be here today or tomorrow, and get the Code 54 issue fixed.

    Jeremy was right, you do need the relay. I found a thread on MR2OC that shows that fix. The one on the UK sit seems to work as show for the 205 but if you don't have the 205 harness you need the relay and include the INT pin in the circuit. I've got the diagram. I'll get it posted up soon for anyone wanting to do this with the 205 ECU.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  25. #50

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    UPDATE:

    First off, I checked the igniter numbers that Luni posted above and I do have one of those numbers, the second one so I should be good there.

    I had to go to the doctor for the first follow up after the surgery so I got home early. I used that time to work on the code 54 issue and the O2 sensor came today as well.

    I picked up the relay and got it wired in, rebuilt my "intercooler pump" harness and got it installed. I then got the O2 sensor installed. Then I fired him up. No CEL light!! I let it sit and warm up to operating temperature and still no CEL. I then took it for a drive. Car ran great. Hit the interstate and accelerated pretty good. Boost came on and was good up to 10 or 11 PSI and then it struttered like it did before. The CEL came on for a few seconds and then went out. I continued on and no problems. I hit boost again and ran it up. Same issues as before. Good to about 10 PSI but then it stuttered. CEL came on for a few seconds and then went out.

    When I got home I checked the codes. 21, the O2 sensor came up again. Not sure about that one. I put in a brand new Denso OEM sensor so I'm going to hang loose on that one for the moment. 34, turbo pressure abnormal came up again. I'm guessing that the 2nd gen MAP sensor is giving a weird signal just above 10 PSI. I think they may both be related. On the trouble code list for the 6th gen Celica, both codes mention issues with the vacuum sensor can throw those codes. I've to some more research to do there to track that down.

    As for the conversion, I like it. The car start up quicker code and isn't rough at first like it was with the 2nd gen electronics. It seems to run a little smoother. I please so far. After it warms up, the idle is a little funky when stopping in traffic. When you come to stop light or something and hit the clutch the idle initially drops to about 1400 RPMs. It will stay there for 4 or 5 seconds or so and then it starts to drop and then will settle in at about 1000 RPMs. On the 2nd gen electronics it usually idled between 900 and 1000 so once it drops it's not much, if any higher, than it was before. It's that initial stop at 1400 I'm not sure about at the moment. I haven't tried to see if it will rev to the 7250 or what whatever the 3rd gen redline is set at. I've got to look that up. I think I'm good with that though since I've got the right igniter. I have to check though.

    So that's where I am at moment. I've got research my final few issues but I think I'm close.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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