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  1. #1

    Default Going to work on the 2nd gen to 3rd gen electronics conversion tomorrow.

    I've been gathering parts for over a year now and I'm ready to start the process. I've been following Luni's write up over at MR2OC about how to go about this.

    http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?...ics+conversion

    There is a lot of go information about what you need and how to go about doing this in his thread along with another thread that is linked to his. It doesn't appear to be that difficult with Berk conversion harness that out there due to Luni's work.

    I've got that and a 205 ECU that I got from lalojamesliz. He also hooked me up with the cold start injector plate that allows for the MAT to be installed in place of the CSI. I picked up the injectors from spitfiremk16. Thanks to the great Pic n Pulls in San Antonio I got the igniter, the AFM plug, the IAT. I've made the harnesses for the MAT and IAT and they're ready to go. I've made an adapter harness to adjust the voltages so I can use the gen2 map sensor for now. Here's a link to a thread at MR2OC on how to do this for either a GM 2bar MAP sensor or to adapt the existing 2nd gen.

    http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=461736

    I know that this isn't ideal but I don't want to put out $120-150 bucks for a 3rd gen right now. I've been looking trying to find a decent deal on one in Europe but so far no luck. Based on that thread and few other things I've find this should work for now.

    So, the weather is supposed to be good tomorrow. I've got the day off and I'm going to start tomorrow morning. I'm going to try to take pictures as I go and post my experiences up. Changing the injectors is supposed to be about the worst part.

    Wish me luck.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  2. #2

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    Best of luck man!
    - Mario
    - Shadow's Army - 5 star General -

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    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a Habit."

  3. #3

    Default

    Thanks Mario. I'm probably going to need it.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  4. #4

    Default

    Made progress today. I finished what little wiring I had left. I got the 540 injectors ready to install and then worked on getting the 2nd gen fuel rail and injectors out. This took about 3.5 hours. Finally got it out. It was a pain in the ass. Also got the cold start injector out. I cleaned up the fuel rail and took out the old injectors. This was where I ran into trouble. Somebody had been in there before (I could tell before this as some of the OEM clamps had been replaced with worm clamps). Some how they had cracked the bottom of one of the injector holders (could have been a manufacturing defect I guess, but anyway, when I pulled the insulator off to put the new one on there was a chunk of aluminum was gone. I double checked to make sure that I didn't mess it up but there were no pieces laying around so it's been like that for a good while.

    So, now I'm dead in the water till I find a new fuel rail. Anybody got a 2nd gen fuel rail they want to get rid of?
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  5. #5

    Default

    I'm pretty sure that someone here has one they could send you. If I did I would send it, but all I have is the one that runs the car.
    - Mario
    - Shadow's Army - 5 star General -

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    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a Habit."

  6. #6

    Default

    No problem Mario. That's not something that you're normally going to have laying around.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  7. #7

    Default

    oh wait will a 5sfe fuel rail work? if so i can hit up the pull a part for you tomrrow?
    R.I.P Cherry Bomb (1990 Celica ST)


    They call me Hadoken because im DOWN RIGHT FIERCE
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  8. #8

    Default

    im in the same boat as shadowlife on this one nitro, wish i could help
    R.I.P Cherry Bomb (1990 Celica ST)


    They call me Hadoken because im DOWN RIGHT FIERCE
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  9. #9

    Default

    Thanks Grimmy but I think that the 5S is different. I think read that it is a top feed rail while the 3S is a side feed. I just checked a dealer parts site and it is showing a different rail for the 3S.

    I really appreciate it though.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  10. #10

    Default

    Thanks Grimmy but I think that the 5S is different. I think read that it is a top feed rail while the 3S is a side feed. I just checked a dealer parts site and it is showing a different rail for the 3S.

    I really appreciate it though.
    no problem
    R.I.P Cherry Bomb (1990 Celica ST)


    They call me Hadoken because im DOWN RIGHT FIERCE
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  11. #11

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    I've got a rail if you want it.

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    90 GTS Swap
    1/4 Mile 13.83 @ 100.73 mph 250hp 244tq

  12. #12

    Default

    Thanks man! I've got a line on a couple right now. If they fall through I'll get back with you.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  13. #13

    Default

    OK, an update on something other than the fuel rail fiasco.

    In billion percent humidity (I love WV in the summer time) and between rain showers, I actually got a little bit done this evening. I swapped out the igniter. I used a 5S unit with the 175 on top. It is more or less a straight swap. It does require just a little modification for the stock plug to fit. Looking at the connector on the igniter, on the left side there is a hump (for lack of a better term) that is too big to allow the harness connector to slide all the way into place. It's about twice the size of the one on the right side Take a pocket knife, Xacto, Dremel or what ever and remove this hump. (I've got extra igniters so I'll try to get a picture illustrating this hump.) It's pretty easy to get off. Once that is done, the plug goes straight on. From here, straight bolt on to the bracket on the firewall.

    I got the MAT installed in the place of the cold start injector. I used the adapter plate that I had gotten from lalojamesliz. Worked great. The plate is a straight bolt in. I did have to retap the sensor hole. I used the GM sensor with has a 3/8-18 NPT nut. I'm guessing that the adapter plate was originally tapped for a Toyota MAT. The threads were off enough that the GM sensor wouldn't go in.

    I also go the harness run to the sensor and got it hooked up. I pulled the AFM out and have my MAT/IAT adapter harness hooked up. I have to get something to hook my intake hoses back together. (I have the battery mounted in the stock location so no straight intake.) Once I get the adapter piece in place I'll install the IAT. This will also give me a place to install a barb and recycle my blow off valve.

    Next step after this, when I'm not swimming outside, will be to install the 205 ECU. I've got the Berk harness so this should be plug and play. The only thing I'm concerned about since this is a 205 ECU, am I going to get the Code 54 for the intercooler water level/intercooler pump? There shouldn't be anything in the harness to feed into that pin on the ECU. I looked at the pinouts and that part should be OK. I wondering though that if even nothing is hooked to that pin, will the ECU through the code? On the 205 swaps that don't use the WTA but have the 205 harness, the easy way around this is to jump the two pins. Since I'm on the 185 harness there is nothing to modify. All of the 3rd gen electronics conversions that I've found detail info on so far have used the MR2 ECU, so this is not a problem. Anybody have any idea if this is going to be a problem and if so, any ideas on how to get around it? I have the 205 WTA intercooler but I really don't want to have to figure out how to wire that float in or figure out how to wire the pump so that the ECU sees it.

    More updates to follow.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  14. #14

    Default

    I think youll pull the IC code on the 205 ECU.

    As for the igniter, yeah, I just shaved the connector on the igniter itself and the plug slides on. I used a dremmel with a sanding barrel disk on it.
    2000 Absolute Red Celica GTS 6-Spd
    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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    - Shadow's Army - Commander In Chief


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    Originally Posted by surfergravity
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    This thread is gayer than Richard Simmons singing a duet with Elton John in a bath house.

  15. #15

    Default

    So Luni you think I need to find some way to jump that pin on the ECU or something?

    I know this isn't something you had to do since you used a MR2 ECU. I guess I'll see when I get it all hooked up.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  16. #16

    Default

    Youre going to likely have to build the resistor array to satisfy the ECU on the "circuit"

    Theres been talk about it before.

    I mean, Id run it and see what happens, but dont be surprised if you pull a CEL and that is what youre pulling a CEL for.
    2000 Absolute Red Celica GTS 6-Spd
    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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    - Shadow's Army - Commander In Chief


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    Originally Posted by surfergravity
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    This thread is gayer than Richard Simmons singing a duet with Elton John in a bath house.

  17. #17

    Default

    Other than the possible code 54, do you think I'm going to have problems using the Berk harness on the 205 ECU? I found one post on MR2OC from the east coast sales rep for ATS, Scremin I think it was, about the pin outs. The ones he was showing for the Gen 3 SW20 and the 205 were the same. If that was the case, I'm good. But I don't think that the MR2 pins are the same as the 205. There's a 3SGTE pin diagram showing pretty much all of them in the Useful Information section here and that shows two different pin outs.

    I'm thinking now that I'm probably going to have to pin the Berk harness.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  18. #18

    Default

    Hate to say it but you wasted your money on the Berk harness IMO; there's literally like 5 wires that need to be swapped around for you to run the 205 ECU on your car.
    Open the connector, unlock the wiring pin, pull out the wire and push in new location.

    You will get a code 54 with the 205 ECU and unfortunately you can't just jump 2 wires. Even if you had the 205 harness you can't just jump wires, you need resistance.
    I have the schematic that works [there's a couple different ones out there and I don't think they all work]. I will TRY to post it up, it's so hard for me to get time to go online....
    It's pretty simple.

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  19. #19

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    Thanks Jeremy. If you get time to post that I would really appreciate it.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  20. #20

    Default

    Ok, I don't have time tonite to explain stuff, but I'm sure someone can figure these out. I'll TRY to come back and explain.

    First is my wiring pinouts for the harness. In case you want to ditch the Berk jumper. I have no clue why it's rotated, that's not the way it is in the album.
    It's for a 94 JDM 205 into a US 93 [same as your 92].



    And this is how to bypass code 54. I wired a relay in too, not sure if it's required, haven't had time to mess with it.
    I also don't know how close to 1k you need to resistors to be. I doubt it has to be super accurate.

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  21. #21

    Default

    Thanks Jeremy. After you mentioned repining the plug I pulled up the pin outs for both ECU's and I see what you mean. I think I'm going to go that route now as I'll have to repin the Berk harness since it's for the MR2 ECU. It will be just as easy to repin my plugs.

    Thanks a lot for posting the fix for the code 54. I wasn't even sure where to start with that. I appreciate you taking the time to post these pictures up.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  22. #22

    Default

    OK, I've been going through some more documentation I've found and I think I've found way around the code 54 for the intercooler water level sensor.

    The common fix give for the water level sensor error for a car with the 205 harness but using a FMIC is to jump the two pins in the water level sensor plug. But in my case since I'm on the 185 harness there's no plug. There's my conundrum. So, looking in the Celicatech BGB section, there is a 3SGTE supplement repair manual for the 94 model. It gives the test procedure at the ECU for this sensor and the state at the plug depending on if the float is up or down. If the float is up, it should have continuity. If it's down, no continuity. I also found the wiring diagram that shows the wiring from the water level sensor to the ECU. It's a simple circuit, one wire goes to the LEV pin on the ECU and the other side goes to a body ground. Here's the diagram. The water level sensor pin, LEV and sensor are in the bottom right corner.



    Based on this and what the 205 owners say they do to get around the code 54 when going to a FMIC, I'm thinking I should be able to just ground the LEV pin and that should show continuity on the circuit. By putting a jumper in the plug on the 205 harness all they are doing is hooking the LEV pin to the ground on the other wire. I'm thinking this should work.

    Jeremy's post above will take care of the issue with intercooler pump and the ECU. His post has the web address for a GT4 site in the UK and I checked it out as well. They have some good info there and even had some pictures of what they were doing with wiring on the 205 harness to get around this. Based on the diagram in Jeremy's post, I'm just going to make a small circuit with the resistors as shown and wire everything into the correct pins. This should cure that issue.

    If you've got an opinion or advice on the water level sensor fix, please let me hear it. I haven't been able to find much of anything about getting around the code for the water level sensor that wasn't associated with the 205 harness.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  23. #23

    Default

    Also, here's a diagram I found that decodes most of the 205 pins. Thought this might be of help to someone doing something similar.

    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  24. #24

    Default

    Very informational posts Mike. Thank you.
    - Mario
    - Shadow's Army - 5 star General -

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    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a Habit."

  25. #25

    Default

    Yeah Mike, you just need to ground the LEV pin, I completely forgot to mention that. Sorry.
    Same thing for the RC, FYI.
    I just used the stud the ECU bolts to. Nice and easy.

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