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  1. #26

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    I thought your engine was bad and you were using a 185 engine.
    2000 Absolute Red Celica GTS 6-Spd
    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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  2. #27
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    That was the previous alltrac This one was unknown. Bought it unrunning in January. You can tell the motor was rebuilt with how clean the engine head is in the VC and the oil passages at the oil filter, but there is valve chatter and both PO's of this car have said they think the rebuild was done poorly. Not sure if either of them really know since neither of them actually drove the car much. It seemed like it just sat most of the time while they would do random shit to it.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  3. #28

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    Got any use for a Gen2 thats in good condition (just needs some seals)?
    2000 Absolute Red Celica GTS 6-Spd
    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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    Originally Posted by surfergravity
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  4. #29
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    Not sure yet. Hopefully I will have a better understanding of my motor shape in the next month. If this motor was as badly rebuilt as rumored, I very well could need a motor.........

    How is your motor coming?

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  5. #30
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    Well, small update.

    I can start her consistently. Motor is still noisey and I started it yesterday and it had no oil pressure after sitting for a week, after an oil change. Added oil to the filter and where the filter mounts. Seems to have fixed the issue, but will check it today.

    She has an oil leak and seems substantial. I see some liquid on the bottom of the cat mount, but a shit load on the ground under the N/S crossmember. May try an additive to taper that off. The more I dig into this engine, the more it seems like the motor will need to be replaced. My guess is the original rebuild that was done was done poorly.

    Also one other issue, it does not go through normal warm up. It starts quickly and sits at 1k then will lower down to almost 500. And when trying to rev the motor, some times it will stumble. So, lots of little shit to try and troubleshoot.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  6. #31
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    And more bad news for this engine. It now has 3 oil leaks and I tried to drive it with horrible results. No power and alot of stuttering. May try my other ecu, but since the CEL comes on, I think this ECU is fine. This motor may just be at the point of no return with the oil issues and previous rebuild issue.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  7. #32
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    Well, small update.

    Over the last month or so I have done the following:
    Removed the sunroof and sanded off all the rust spots. All rust was surface, so I sprayed converter after grinding off, primed and painted black. Just rattle can as the car will get a full repaint after Milla(Corolla) has her paint done.

    Replaced the fuel filter and tried to investigate what appears to be a heavy PS leak. Believe its my PS pump, but could be rack too. I will investigate it next year as the car is about to get put back together and parked outside under a car cover for the winter. Again, Milla gets the best treatment, so she gets the garage so I can finish installing some bushings, cut springs and maybe install the ebay turbo I have, as well as other little tasks. Trying to milk the last bit of life from her motor before rebuild.

    Also, after some reading, I think my wastegate gets stuck open after hitting boost. The few times I have been able to hit boost has been good, but right after there is no boost till after she sits for awhile.

    On thge agenda if winter isnt too bad:
    Replace the coolant temp sensor.
    If driving issues continue, check the AMF/MAF and TPS.
    Get some 6th gen celi wheels.
    Hopefully next year put together a more trust worthy motor.

    Pics of current status to come later, not like much has changed lol.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  8. #33
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    So, I have a winter project for my trac. I am going to make a fiberglass hood vent over the turbo. The plan will be to make it a bolt on until I get the ambition to try and make a fiberglass hood.

    Here is the practice canvas:


    The stuff to build/play with:


    Ideas. Remember, these pieces will be triangles and connected lol. Just trying to figure out the path I want to take with looks.

    Option 1:


    Option 2:


    Option 3:


    Option 4:


    Option 5:


    Option 6:

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  9. #34
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    Well, small update.

    -I have made to skeletons for a vent and screwed both up lol. Need to find a better way to make the base.
    -She developed a rod or something knock when I was trying to troubleshoot her rev issue. She is officially parked till I get a different motor to put in her.
    -For xmas I got an engine stand and hoist. That will help with the above.
    -Also got some 15" steelies off a camry, so just need to find some cheap tires to throw on her for now, then I can sell the bling rims.

    I hope to be able to bring her back into the garage in March/April. I am hoping that is when the snow will go away and I will be willing to park the Corolla outside.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  10. #35
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    Well, this is a small update for Fiona.

    Plans for this upcoming year are a motor and paint. I may try and Megasquirt the motor and if I do I will replace the dashboard with a tablet and make the gauge cluster with Tunerstudio. Also, speakers in the doors and a new setup for the rear, maybe behind the panels in the backseat area like so many other cars have.

    So, on the immediate shit.

    First, this is the idea I am currently going with for the vent. Opinions?


    Second, for Xmas I got an engine hoist and stand Should make rreplacing the motor possible later........when I assemble it.


    Third, here are the steelies I got for her. 15's, which will make snow tires prices more manageable.


    And last, her sad state. She is regulated to the snow till the weather dries up and I can park my Corolla outside.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  11. #36
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    Well, time for a small update as I am prepping to try my first rebuild/build/whatever on an engine.

    To start, here is the vent I am working on. Still needs alot of trimming, sanding and brainstorming for mounting. Right now I am waiting for all the FG resin to cure.


    Here she sits, looking all sexy, still waiting for her turn.


    So, to start. I picked up an old 3sge in trade for a blown MR2 motor. The vague story on this motor is it has been sitting for 2 decades-ish. The PO said the swapped a GTE head on it for performance. Judging by the shape of the head and block, he never tried it.

    The head looks great, but I imagine the rust is not good lol.


    Judging by the channels, I think this is a GTE head.


    This is the block. The outside is really clean. When I flipped it upside down it seemed alot of dried out debri/rust bits fell out.


    And judging by this, the guy swapped the head, but didn't bother cleaning much up. The story I heard is this motor was low mileage. I imagine I have no real way to tell.


    So, my next step is to take more apart and see what the condition is. I would like to limit my costs as I want to just get the motor road worthy and not have leaks. While rebuilding I hope to gather the bits to go MS3.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  12. #37
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    So, I took the oil pan off and this is what I found.






    So, mostly looks like surface rust. There appears to also be no movement of the connecting rods, so I am assuming this may mean I am okay to remove, have shit cleaned, and reassemble. Is this correct?

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  13. #38
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    Replace the bearings, and don't let the rods/pistons get out of order. They are bore matched and balanced in that order from the factory. Use oem bearings and bgb installation instructions for getting the correct size. there are like 3 std bearing sizes no other mfgr does this...

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  14. #39
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    I am keeping them in order. I took a box and made dividers to keep the crank caps(I think thats what they are called) and pistons in order.

    The bearings were in great shape, so I am hoping I can get everything cleaned with new rings and bearings and reinstall. Still need to address the head though.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  15. #40
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    Well, she has made it into the garage.

    Here is a video displaying what I believe to be rod knock lol.
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueGZx...ature=youtu.be

    And here is where she sits waiting for me to have the balls to pull the engine.



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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  16. #41

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    yep thats rod knock.

    You have referred several times to getting a replacement engine but there is no good reason not to rebuild what you have so long as nothing is damaged beyond machinability.

    Its always better to start with s aknown quantity and rebuild than to just throw a new motor at it when you have no idea of the condition of said replacement. Rebuilding a bottom end is easy and good experience. With a decent manual you should be able to feel confident that your rebuild is fresh and ready to build a motor around.
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    Yet, it's our emotions and imperfections that makes us human.”
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facime View Post
    yep thats rod knock.

    You have referred several times to getting a replacement engine but there is no good reason not to rebuild what you have so long as nothing is damaged beyond machinability.

    Its always better to start with s aknown quantity and rebuild than to just throw a new motor at it when you have no idea of the condition of said replacement. Rebuilding a bottom end is easy and good experience. With a decent manual you should be able to feel confident that your rebuild is fresh and ready to build a motor around.
    I should have been more clear. My plan for most of the time has been to build a new motor. I ended up getting a 3sge from someone that has been sitting for years/decade. I dismantled everything and have it organized waiting for me to get to a machine shop. I want to get the pistons/block/everything cleaned and then I will be trying to rebuild it. The pistons and block are all in great shape from what I can tell, so cleaning and then new bearings and all should be well. I never really planned on using the motor in the car cause it was rebuilt by an owner in 2004 and from the other owners, it sounds like this car has had maybe 1k for miles put on it. With such low miles and now rod knock, I am going to guess it was a poor rebuild and who knows what else they did.

    There was a couple deals I had stumbled across before that almost swayed me to just buy a motor and try to drop it in, but money or time stopped it. Right now I am just scared lol. Never rebuilt a motor so this will be a first. I have a book for the alltrac, so I should have the specs I need there.

    Thanks for the input and if you have any other advice I am all ears.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  18. #43

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    I honestly dont know the diference (specifically in the bottom end) between a GE and GTE aside from the pistons. The GTE may have oil squirters (cools the pistons), different rods, or other minor differences. Maybe someone with more 3S experience can chime in here, but I was trying to encourage you to rebuild the motor that is in the car. Rod knock from a poor rebuild, or maybe from being run dry alot (so few miles without a proper break in), should not disuade you from rebuilding that motor. In fact it may be quite saveable for leass work. I would expect a simple hone and re-ring the pistons you have should take care of the cylinders, then have the crank turned .010 or .025 under to accept standard sized bearings (save you the hassle of finding numbered toyota bearings anyway). I would expect your oil pump and timing components could be re-used as well.

    At that point your machine shop costs should be below $500 and you will really only need a gasket kit and a set of bearings. Depending what was done before, you may not need any head work either, though I would at least re-seal it.

    The place to start is to get the motor out and do an autopsy on it. The knock source should be plainly evident at that point. You can then plastigage all your bearing clearances to see where you stand bearing-wise. Then take the stripped block and assembled cylinder head to a reputable shop and have them mic everything out. A good shop will make recommendations but you may not have to do everything. Also, if the are truely interchangable you will have a backup set of parts from the GE you can use.


    Dont be afraid of the bottom end rebuild. To be perfectly honest its the easiest part of engine work. I mean honestly, its all the external stuff thats confusing and tedious. Engine internals are easy by comparison.



    Quote Originally Posted by l0ch0w View Post
    Replace the bearings, and don't let the rods/pistons get out of order. They are bore matched and balanced in that order from the factory. Use oem bearings and bgb installation instructions for getting the correct size. there are like 3 std bearing sizes no other mfgr does this...
    Thats only true if the motor wasnt actually rebuilt before. If its been bored and the crank turned then all that is out the window. Standard over/under sized pistons and bearings will be the only option. Most times, even if it hasnt been rebuilt, you end having to machine anyway to get everything on an even playing field.
    Last edited by Facime; 11-03-2013 at 08:00 PM.
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  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Facime View Post
    I honestly dont know the diference (specifically in the bottom end) between a GE and GTE aside from the pistons. The GTE may have oil squirters (cools the pistons), different rods, or other minor differences.
    All the research and people I have talked to have determined that the only difference with the blocks is the oil squirters. Crank, pistons, etc are all the same. Heads are a little different though.

    And I will probably take the old motor out before doing anything machine shop wise. I was just thinking that it may have been better to use a motor that had not developed rod knock since I plan to reuse the stock pistons. Is this not really an issue?

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  20. #45

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    nope, shouldnt be an issue at all, but you need to tear it down to be sure. Most times the knock comes from a failed bearing. Either its been oil starved and hammered or has spun in its landing, resulting in TOO much clearance and thus "knocks" as the rod bangs against the crank on every rotation. Most times this means that the damage is confined to the crank and or rod. Rods can "oblong" and/or crank journals can oval. Usually the crank can be saved with machine work. Or, if you stopped running it soon enough, there may be no damage that a set of bearings wont fix.


    If the rods are truely the same between the GE and the GTE then you already have spares to use. You would just need to move one over to the piston you want to use. Like I said, if they rebuilt it and used new pistons, you may find they are perfectly fine. Or they may have been overheated/oil starved or put in the wrong size bores and been damaged...you wont know until you take it apart. You will only be able to reuse pistons if the bores they came out of are savable with just a deglazing. If either of the blocks need reboring, you will need a set of pistons to match. I wouldnt marry yourself to the idea that getting new pistons is a problem. You can get a master kit with pistons and pins, oil pump, water pump, and timing components for under $400


    Again, the best course of action is to take it all apart and then take stock of what you have between the two motors that can reused/machined for the least amount of money and give you the best result.

    side note: at least with the GTE you know its (probably) not cracked anywhere. the GE you have is a completely unknown quantity at this point.
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  21. #46
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    Yea, I will take it apart and just see. I know the spare block has no glazing, so I can keep that in mind for later. It still had the hone markings.

    I hope I can get the motor removed in the next month or so.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  22. #47
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    Here are some random pics to show that I have accomplished a little bit since the last update.

    The empty engine bay.


    General pic of her current progress.


    The engine before any real dismantling happened.


    Inside the exhaust port.


    Goodies for future use. I need to learn to weld cause my Alltrac(Fiona) and Corolla(Milla) need some exhaust work.


    Dismantling in progress.


    A bunch of the parts.


    More dismantling.


    And the trans, all by its self.


    My next plan is to remove the clutch and flywheel, check their condition, and then get the engine on the stand for the full tear down to see where the knock started.

    Hoping I have time this week or weekend to do that.

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  23. #48
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    Well, I dismantled more and here is what I saw.

    The flywheel in all its glory lol. Still see the resurfacing marks.


    The clutch. One of the PO's told me it had some performance clutch in it. Not really sure how to tell. Also, does this appear to still have enough meat to even consider reusing?



    The motor on the stand.........SO EXCITING!!!


    Chunks in the oil screen. Always a sign of a motor in top shape


    Here is the overall motor. I tried to move all 4 connecting rods at the crank and all 4 move slightly. I thought normally when you have a rod issue(rod knock), it's 1 rod... Assuming that the belief that the rods should have no play at the crank.


    Lots of sludge and debris in the oil pan.


    The head, which looks to be in great shape.


    I assume this is a cam part number(88360).


    And a question. I have a head from a spare motor and the head that came off my alltrac. The cams have one difference on the surface. The alltrac head has protruded metal around the cam at the back of both cams. The other head has a a metal notch protruded in the same area. Are they the same cams or are they something else?

    Alltrac head:


    Spare head:

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  24. #49
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    So, took the pistons out. Piston 4 has markings on the top from metal making it there it seems. Plus it seems like one of the PO's marked the pistons with scrapping. Figure I need new pistons or use the pistons from the 3sge that I dismantled. Here is the shape of the pistons and crank. All 4 pistons had movement at the crank, so it was pretty mangled.

    In order of front to back.

    Piston 1:




    Piston 2:




    Piston 3:




    Piston 4:




    So, judging by the crank, would you say this should probably be reuseable after a machine shop visit?

    I was honestly surprised not to see more carnage with all the crap in the oil pickup and pan.

    So, now I need to start contacting machine shops and get quotes. My plan, theoretically, get a full rebuild kit, reuse the 3sge piston, 5s oil pump(anything needed to make it work) and look into cleaning up one of the heads. My goal is to try and do everything right, but obviously want to save on costs.

    The goal is for a stock rebuild. The only performance stuff I plan for later is bolt on(exhaust, front mount, etc).

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  25. #50

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    Lets be careful we are using the correct terminology for clarity sake. You use the word pistons but display the bearings in the rods and rod caps. The piston is the round thing on top

    Pistons are not interchangable between GE and GTE due to compression differences. Rods/caps are. Your rods are fine either way, they were protected by the bearings (whats left of them). I would like to see some pictures of the bores and of the sides (skirts) of the pistons. Again, only a machine shop will be able to tell you if your pistons and bores are enough within spec to be re-used (deglaze and re-ring) or to far past it to re-use (Bore/hone w/new pistons).

    That crankshaft if pretty mangled but only a machine shop will be able to tell you if they can make it usable again. May have to go .20 under to get it fully smooth again.
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