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  1. #1

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    So here is day 1 (5-23-09) of project phoenix. This car belonged to a couple of members before I purchased it. It has 109k on the clock, and now that we have the positive out of the way lets talk about it in detail shall we. The car was the victim of a very unfortunate engine fire . Before that it was a great example of a clean trac with all the extras. CS/RC Hood and Bumper very clean interior and low miles. Right now as the car sits it need everything under the hood replaced, and I do mean everything . The wiring is completely fried all of it except for the interior wiring it survived the accident. So far I have removed the dash, and I will be replacing it with a fairly new one in the morning . I have a ton of parts, but very little experience working on alltracs . It will be a huge job, but I just couldn't let this former beautiful trac just die and fade away. Some might say why not, why not just buy a fairly decent trac to start with? Well the answer is pretty simple, I enjoy a challenge and this will be my biggest project challenge by far.

    Thank you for viewing my project thread. I will update as project phoenix progresses. Please be advised!!!! The following photos are for mature audiences and may contain scenes of Alltrac violence



































    Well its day 2 (5-24-09), and I decided to take some engine pics. This is a JDM engine not sure exactly what year . If anyone can tell from ecu pics please let me know. In the next few days I will try to gut out the engine compartment, probably will take me a little longer , but I'll get it done. I do have lots of other parts I will be posting soon. I have also decided to sandblast the entire front end, and have it repainted before I get it up and running, just seems to make more sense that way.































    Last edited by lamont; 07-08-2010 at 08:56 PM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  2. #2
    Made It! burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd's Avatar
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    wow good luck with that one... that car is going to need one hell of a prayer!
    2012 Jeep Wrangler
    1993 Mr2 Turbo

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    Originally Posted by vangls14
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    just because you want to be "different". Why not just take that mentality a couple steps forward and get yourself a Pontiac Aztek?

  3. #3

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    Well it's day 3 (6-7-09) and I have removed a few more parts. I just wanted to add a few pics as I go along. Pics 4-6 are a HKS super sequential bov . Some parts are easy to recognize others are not. I'm planning on removing the engine next, I just need to buy an engine hoist.







































    So its day 4 (6-21-09) and I've done a few things, since the rain let up for a day. It's been raining almost every weekend it seems , but today was nice so I put in some quality time on Project Phoenix. I started by dropping the engine, which is easier said than done. Even on my engine where I had no wiring to worry about, it still took me the better part of day 4 to get it out. First I had trouble with the passenger side engine mount. You have to have the smallest hands in the world to get the mount off . So after I realized that my sausage fingers just were not going to get in there to disconnect the mount from the engine, because of the small working area coupled with the fact that the entire top timing belt cover melted right over the bolt locations, I decided to try to drop the engine with the mount still in place. It was a little more difficult than it had to be, but my hand is grown-up size and that space is rather small . Now the shifter cables started their crap ,those clips and pins are straight from hell . I have the busted knuckles to prove it , but a small pair of pliers and a claw hammer got the job done. So the engine is out, but still under the car, I really have no place to store it, until I get a small pallet from work and another tarp I'll just leave it. Oh on a side note, I have just realized that someone has removed both the front and rear brake calipers idk why, but I will be needing them, so I'll post on parts wanted with a laundry list of other things . The rust in the engine bay is not as bad as I thought it would be, only surface rust, no pitting, but it still will need some sanding, and primer and paint to get it in decent shape. I was thinking of painting the engine bay flat black too just seeing what you guys think of that idea. So enough chatting here are some pics. Thanks for following my project guys









































    Last edited by lamont; 07-08-2010 at 09:24 PM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  4. #4
    Ultimo Miembro FantŠstico Gigantesco UtahSleeper is on a distinguished road UtahSleeper's Avatar

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    Glad to see you are showing your work over here now.

    SPOILER ALERT for those not on at.net................

    Really amazing how you...............
    Last edited by UtahSleeper; 07-09-2010 at 03:18 PM. Reason: Edited for those that don't know lol

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

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  5. #5

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    LOL UtahSleeper AKA 3tcpower, don't spoil the surprise I felt that it was appropriate that I started a project thread here also. I've been a member for a little while now, but just never got around to starting a project post. So I hope you guys enjoy this one . I'm including the original dates so everyone has an idea of just how long it took to get where I'm at today.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  6. #6

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    Hey guys, I picked up my parts car today (6-28-09). It's a 90 GT-S automatic. The car has a terrible rod knock and the transmission is shot . I got a really good price on it so I can't complain too much, but I did have quite a tough time getting it back to my place. Started yesterday when I decided to go and pickup the car. My friend agreed to help by taking me there, and following behind on the way back, just in case something went wrong . It started out fine, I topped off the oil, checked the coolant level, also checked the transmission fluid level all looked up to par and ready to go. So I fired it up started a little rough with a little puff of blue smoke from the tailpipe . I though nothing of it . So we started on our way. The car shifted a little rough and while it was shifting the rod knock got loud for just a second then it went away. Ten miles later I here a pretty loud thud come from under the hood I had no idea what it was, my first guess was I ran over something, or maybe the front strut was just that bad and I hit a pothole . So we make our way to a nice covered bridge, everything is still going smoothly, until we stop at a traffic light facing a pretty steep hill . Now I'm a little concerned about that little thud I heard 2 miles back . The light turns green, and I start my way up the hill with my friend following close behind, and then all hell broke loose . The rod knock get so loud it sounded like the rod is facing the wrong way and was trying to burst through the oil pan . To make things worse it starts overheating and smoking pretty bad, but I got my buddy behind me and a long line of cars behind him, and there is no place to pull off , and to make matters worse it cuts off because it's running way too hot . Now I'm just coasting along, fighting to steer this thing down a pretty twisty stretch of road, and I finally get to an area where there is enough space to get this loud, smoking, P.O.S. off the road. After letting it cool down for around 10 minutes I checked the coolant, it looked OK, so we decided just to let it cool off for a little while longer, and try to drive it a little closer to home before it ran hot and cutoff again . So after doing this 3 more times me and my buddy decided it was getting way too late, and we would never get it back to my place at the rate we were going . Luckily 1 car passing by, now there was close to around 75-100 cars that drove past us including a state trooper , and nobody stopped, or even asked if we needed help, but luckily 1 guy stopped, and told us where we could park the car off the main road overnight, or until we could get a tow. So we took his advice and stashed the car down this little road, and this morning my local towing company delivered the car to my house . So here are some pics of my parts car. Oh before I forget, If the previous owner of the car told me that it overheated, I would have never attempted to drive it back to my place , but sadly I was not informed and had to find out the hard way





































    Alright its day 5 (7-19-09), and I haven't posted any updates in a while, but I have been busy. I made my second trip out to Pittsburgh for parts. This time I picked up the throttle cable, the cruise control cable + control unit, the clutch master cylinder, the shift knob, rear view mirror, and the front and rear brake calipers with all the mounting brackets and hardware. I practically spent the day in the salvage yard getting all this , and of course it starts to rain. So it pouring and I'm almost done, I started to loosen the last bolt holding on the driver side rear brake caliper on. Did I mention this was the last bolt I had to take off, then I would be on my home . When it happens the breaker bar slips off ever so slightly, and strips the bolt head . By now I'm soaked, and the entire yard is turning into one giant muddy pit . So I'm a little upset, but I just had to suck it up to get the last bolt off. I had to get down on one knee and strip the head enough to wedge on a 13mm socket, and by wedge I mean apply with a very large hammer , the bolt is 14mm as you all know . So now my 13mm socket is trash, but the bolt finally gives up and comes off . By then the rain had stopped, and the sun made a cameo appearance for the 5 1/2hr ride home .

    I also removed everything from the engine bay finally , and sanded and scraped all the rust off, then painted it with the semi gloss black finish from Eastwood. The kit I used ran me $99 and came with 2 cans of Eastwood Rust Converter, 2 cans of Eastwood Rust Encapsulator, and 2 cans of Eastwood Extreme Chassis Black satin finish. It's a pretty straight forward kit, and was quite easy to use . Here are some pictures of the painted engine bay . Please feel free to do a before and after. Thanks for following my project guys.















    Alright so it's day 6 (8-9-09) and I've been pretty busy reassembling the engine bay, or maybe its better to just say assembling, because there wasn't anything there originally that's there now . So I have most of the engine bay done, I have also swapped the jdm 92-93 harness with the 90-91 usdm harness and made some alterations to a few of the plugs to make them match-up.

    I forgot to mention the toad I found under Project Phoenix while I was removing the engine from underneath the car. So I dropped the old engine from the engine bay, and left it under the car for about a week before I decided to completely remove it from the car. When I finally wrestled the engine out of the way there was so much debris under the car that I decided it would be best to pick-up the big pieces and wash down the rest with some soap and water. There was also a large amount of heavy gear oil that ran out of the tranny when I pulled the drive shaft and the axles off the transmission . So I reach down to pick up a handful of trash and there it was a small toad sitting perfectly still covered in gear oil. I quick scooped him into a 5 gallon bucket and rinsed the gear oil off until he was clean. Now he's doubled in size, been 3 weeks now, and his name is Fred. I named him Fred after a noisy co-worker who would just yell random stuff out for no reason . Fred the toad would croak at crickets when I 1st tried to feed them to him, so I thought the name fit . Now he eats about 5-7 crickets a day, he's so greedy

    OK back to project Phoenix, so here's some pics of the progress, and of course my toad . Thanks for following my project guys, and I'll try to update sooner .



























    Last edited by lamont; 07-09-2010 at 06:39 PM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  7. #7

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    Hey again so day 7 (8-16-09) and I have the engine in . It took me a my neighbor the better part of an afternoon to do in 90+ degree heat but we got it done. I have to say it was harder than I thought it would be, and me being a noob I probably did it the hard way . So here are some pics, and thanks for following Project Phoenix guys.











    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  8. #8
    Made It! burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd is a glorious beacon of light burnyd's Avatar
    burnyd has been to an annual Dragon Meet! burnyd has donated to the forums!

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    holy shiet braaaaa!!!! So where at in PA might you be located?
    2012 Jeep Wrangler
    1993 Mr2 Turbo

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    Originally Posted by vangls14
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    just because you want to be "different". Why not just take that mentality a couple steps forward and get yourself a Pontiac Aztek?

  9. #9

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    (11-9-09) So it's been forever since my last post, and I do apologize. Been pretty busy adjusting to a new job, and keeping up with all that I have on my plate has been a little hectic.

    So it is official Project Phoenix is alive and kicking . I got Phoenix running a month or so ago, and now I'm just saving up for parts I need to make it road worthy . Right now itís running really rich, to the point where carbon builds up on the spark plugs after idling for about 20 mins, and just completely kills any spark . I have been having a really tough time figuring out exactly where the problem is. I was hoping for some forum help on this one. I will be swapping the AFM, and if that doesnít work I will start with the fuel system at the injectors first then work my way down the line until I can find what is causing it to run so rich.

    If it helps hereís my set-up. I have a JDM 92-93 Engine, 90-91 Engine Harness, and a 90-91 JDM ECU. With fresh spark plugs it fires up 1st time and runs pretty good (bellowing out black smoke, killing all plant life within a 20ft radius) , but pretty good other than that. Then it will slowly start to wind down, and you can tell right away that itís fading. It starts sputtering out on a downward spiral to nothingness until it stops. After this happened the 1st time I took out the spark plugs and all of them were completely covered in a thick layer of carbon residue . I was thinking of grabbing my tools and a couple sets of new plugs and taking it out onto the highway to see if I can blow it out a little, after I get a front windshield installed this week of course.

    Well thatís all I have for right now, if you guys have any helpful hints or suggestion please feel free to drop me a PM or to just post comments here. I need all the help I can get . I will see if I can get some new pics posted as well after I get the windshield installed .

    Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys

    Quote Originally Posted by burnyd View Post
    holy shiet braaaaa!!!! So where at in PA might you be located?
    I'm in eastern PA near MD & DE
    Last edited by lamont; 07-09-2010 at 08:24 PM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  10. #10

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    Holy crap I thats impressive considering what you started with and what you ended with. Looks great, good job!
    Red st165
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  11. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by 88st165 View Post
    Holy crap I thats impressive considering what you started with and what you ended with. Looks great, good job!
    Thanks so much 88st165, it still has a long way to go though
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  12. #12

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    (11-15-09) Hey guys, so I finally have a new windshield, and I just wanted to update the status so far. The car is 85% assembled and I have most of the other parts, but I am waiting until I purchase an Alltrac front bumper to put the remaining parts on. I should be able to get one in a couple weeks, if I can get the funds together , I hate being poor . I have been doing this entire project on a very strict budget. It is truly a labor of love and a pain in the @$$ sometimes, but as a true enthusiast I wouldn't have it any other way . So I took a few pictures of my progress to date, and remember guys this is done on a very strict budget. P.S. I'm not one of the guys whoís got more money than brains, kind of the exact opposite . There is still plenty to be done, and I want to change the fenders as well, the paint is not that great and I have a spare set from my parts car. I have not taken the maiden voyage yet, I'm a little hesitant because itís running so rich. I don't want to get 2 miles from my house and have the thing die on me, and have to change spark plugs to get back on my way . So enough chat hereís some pics.
    Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys






















    (1-25-10) Hey guys, I know it's been forever since I have posted an update, nearly 2 1/2 months . Sorry, I have been pretty busy with a new job, and Project Phoenix has been put on the back burner for a while . I have been low on funds, but I have still been piecing things together, like the antennae is now operational, and I also have found the source of the heavy smoke pouring from my exhaust. It turns out that my turbo has bad seals, and it's spewing oil into the intake manifold, and the car is just belching smoke out of the tailpipe. It is ironically idling much better than it has been, until the plugs get saturated in oil then it idles rough. I have another ct-26 coming in from Canada since I cannot afford to send mine off for a rebuild right now. I have also upgraded to 92-93 tail lights, and swapped all the seatbelts what a pain. I pretty much would not recommend doing this unless it is absolutely necessary. The only reason I did it was because the seatbelts that were originally in the car were severely sun-bleached, and were almost white . It's not terribly hard but everything has to be removed from you're interior except your front seats and your carpet. Every interior panel and the rear seats have to be removed to gain access to the seatbelt mounting points .In hindsight I should have just purchased some gray interior vinyl spray paint and just masked off the belt itself and saved myself the headache . I have a much newer 92 Alltrac steering wheel installed now, and the car does have an Alltrac front bumper installed, and I have also swapped out the rear bumper as well. While changing out the rear bumper I noticed that the car has had some repair work done to the drivers side rear quarter panel, and not very professional work . The bondo is around 1 1/4" thick, and the body panel itself is severely mangled . To make matters even worse I had a friend come down to check the car out for me so that he could give me an estimate on a complete re-spray. While he was inspecting the car he noticed that the front radiator support was bent and that the car showed other accident damage . On the other hand he told me all the damage could most likely be fixed with parts from my GT-S parts car and that he could fix everything and re-spray the car any color for about $2800 which I think is a pretty good price considering the current state of the car. Now I just need to decide on a color . I'll get some new pictures posted sometime this week. It's coming along slowly, but I'm just going to keep plugging away at it as funds become available. Thanks to Brandontoyota for the Tail Lights, and FWD-3SGTE for the front fenders which I will use on my 90 GT, and thanks to Cozmic512 for the front bumper, fog lights, and the steering wheel . P.S. if anyone is swapping out a 90-91 steering wheel for a 92 the cruise control and airbag/horn braces are different, and the holes don't match up. Nothing a dremel and a little modification can't fix .

    Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys

    (1-27-10) Hey guys I finally had a little time to take some up to date pics of Project Phoenix. The picture of the drivers rear quarter panel is not bad panel fitment, it's almost 2" of Bondo . I guess someone was practicing to become the worst auto body repairman in history . I most likely will have the rear quarter cut from my GT-S and welded on. It is in much better condition and the Alltrac has major rust on the rear wheel arches also, so both sides will need some minor surgery. I also took pictures of the upper and lower radiator support to show the damage there. It is bent just enough to have to be replaced, and is the major reason why nothing in the front of the car lines up properly. Notice the minty 92 steering wheel compliments of cozmic512, he threw it in at no charge when I drove up Thanksgiving weekend to pick up the front bumper and fog lights . I have all the trim pieces I'm just a little scared to put them on with all the mechanical work that still needs to be done like swapping out the turbo, and a full tune-up soon after that. I also have a nice set of JDM clear corners I will be installing as well , I picked them up for $60 shipped from Japan.

    Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys......Feel free to suggest the new color Red is not an option






































    (2-21-10) Hey guys, time for an update. I have swapped out the turbo, and completed a full tune-up, and the car runs much better, and no longer belches smoke, but I don't think the turbo was the problem in the first place. I'm not sure why, but I'm getting oil from the breather tube in the head, and that's where the oil problem is not the turbo like I originally thought. So I'm back to square one, with a real big decision to make. I'm not sure whether to just buy the parts from Toyota to do a legitimate rebuild, or to just buy a used JDM 3SGTE and go from there. On one hand, purchasing all new Toyota parts while being the more expensive way to go, I'll end up with a 0 mile motor. On the other hand JDM 3SGTE motors are very common, and I could even grab a MR2 long block and swap over all the alltrac specific parts for a fraction of the cost of OEM parts and a rebuild at a shop. Not really sure which route I will take at this point, funds will play the major roll in the end .

    I also attempted to drive the car for the first time with pretty much the results I expected. I took all my tools, and a replacement set of spark plugs with me because I knew the engine would blow oil into the intake and foul up the plugs, but before that happened I did drive it 500ft. a new record. The old record was 3ft. so I'm going in the right direction . After the 500ft. maiden voyage the car just slowly sputtered out so I let it cool down, and just swapped the plugs and reversed it back 500ft. before it died again. I'm not really sure how to fix the current engine problems. It's no longer belching smoke, but when I took out the plugs they were all covered in heavy black soot, and plug 2 & 4 had oil on them 1 & 3 were just black. So as I said earlier I have a decision to make; rebuild or replace. Let me know what you guys think.

    Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys. I will update once I know my next step.

    Thanks again
    Lamont
    Last edited by lamont; 07-11-2010 at 06:53 AM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  13. #13

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    (3-1-10) Hello again guys, so today I did a compression test and the compression is between 170-180 across all four cylinders. When I pulled the plugs they were all covered in heavy carbon as I expected they would be, and all had what looked like oil on them. I'm not so sure it's oil I think it's dirty fuel, and hereís why. Not satisfied with the compression #'s because they are all within spec. I cleaned up the spark plugs and placed them back into the cylinder they were removed from, and I started the engine. It fired right up first time and while it was running I removed the breather hose from the head and held my finger over the whole going into the intake. At first nothing was happening, then what looked like oil started to come from the breather hose very little at first then more, and every time the engine fired in one of the cylinders the fluid pulsed from the breather pipe. I think it's fuel because I held my hand in it while it was spraying out to see exactly what I was dealing with, and after a few seconds it started to evaporate. So I assume it's not oil but dirty fuel. Why it's dirty, I'm not too sure, but due to the fact that this is a car that had extensive fire damage, my guess is maybe there was some soot left in the fuel lines or even rubber that melted and is now clogging the line completely . Let me know what you guys think, I could use all the help I can get, please feel free to post solutions here or drop me a PM with possible fixes. I also took the time to take a look down into each cylinder before the test just to see if there was oil present inside the cylinders, and I didn't see any. I was also told to not release the cylinder pressure right away to get a more accurate reading, so these #'s are about 1 minute after I initially cranked the motor to start the compression test. Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys. Here are the compression test results:

    Cylinder one


    Cylinder two


    Cylinder three


    Cylinder four


    (3-7-10) Well guys after some really frustrating days, and throwing money at my over fueling problems, I am officially waving the white flag and sending the car to the shop. This issue took another strange turn earlier this week. I removed the question mark shaped hose that runs from just under the throttle body and connects to the valve cover, and gave it a little gas to see what would happen, and gas shot up from the nipple in the valve cover about 8" into the air . Needless to say I ran to shut the car off and disconnected the battery to keep a spark from once again bathing the car in fire. So I've been wrong about exactly whatís been causing the problem, and I'm finally to the point where I need a little help figuring this one out . If I had to guess what's going on, I would say that somewhere in the fuel system there is a blockage keeping the fuel from circulating properly. The car is getting fuel without a problem, but I'm guessing somewhere in the return system there is a blockage, maybe a rusted fuel return line, or even clogged with something. The car has sat for quite some time, so anything is possible after sitting in the elements for a few years . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, I will update once I receive word on exactly what the problem is .

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    (3-25-10) I spoke with my mechanic yesterday, and he got the car to stop smoking so badly, he told me fuel is mixing with my oil, and at the same time the turbo was spraying this oil and fuel mixture into the intake causing the heavy smoke and over fueling the engine. He's going to do a few more tests to see exactly where the oil and fuel are mixing. He did tell me that he drained the oil, and flushed the engine out to get rid of any trace of fuel, and after putting fresh oil in the engine he started the car and it stopped smoking, so he took it out of the garage to turn it around on the lift. He actually drove the car which pisses me off a little after all the work I put into getting the car back together he steals my maiden voyage drive from me . I guess it's cool as long as the car is headed in the right direction; it still has a long way to go. He did another compression test and was satisfied with the numbers. He did say after flushing the engine and putting fresh oil in that the turbo didn't seem to be spewing oil. I actually hope the seals are bad, that would be a cheaper fix than having the valve seals replaced, but I should have a better idea later on today. Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys. I will update when I get more news from my mechanic

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    (4-27-10) I should have the car back at my place tomorrow, and I should be back to work on it really soon. Lesson learned, I paid a total of $215 for towing and parts and labor, and all I have to show for it is receipts and an oil change . I'm not angry because it's my fault. I should have just diagnosed the problem myself or reached out to the Alltrac community for help. Honestly you guys are the ones that keep these cars on the road. Most mechanics today don't know what to do with a car that doesn't have an OBDII port , just kidding . So I have some serious plans to put into motion soon, I'll keep them under wraps for now, just in case they change or don't fit into the budget . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, and maybe just maybe I'll have some new pics to post soon

    Thanks again
    Lamont
    Last edited by lamont; 07-11-2010 at 07:58 AM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  14. #14

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    OK, Project Phoenix is back under construction . I ripped the turbo out today, and cleaned out the oil lines. I also broke off two bolts on the exhaust downpipe elbow . I also managed to go through all the trouble of reassembling the turbo/downpipe, just to find out while I was cleaning up that the gasket from the turbo to downpipe was not on the car true Homer moment folks, but tomorrow I should have it all back together and ready to be fired up. I will most likely have to change the valve stem seals, because I didn't find any blockages in the turbo oil lines that could be causing oil to leak from the turbo into the intercooler and down through the intake . I guess I will have to bite the bullet and get the Valvemaster valve keeper tool (had my eye on it for a while now, just needed an excuse to buy it , seems like a well made tool. I think I either had a light case of food poisoning or had heat exhaustion/heat stroke today. I was fine while I was working on the car a little fatigued, but I thought it was from the diet I started a few weeks ago, but once I was done I became very lightheaded and actually vomited . I forgot how painful that actually can be , but I will be back up and running in the AM, and I will most likely take a few pics as well. Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, and fingers crossed the valve seals do the trick.

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    (5-3-10) Hey guys, I felt a little better Sunday so I got up early and tried my best to get the turbo back in the car before it got too hot and of course I didn't the sun was so intense by 11:45 I had to take an hour break to make sure I didn't have another episode . So after my siesta I finally get the whole thing reassembled and everything wired, double and triple checked everything, and when I turned the key it just cranked and wouldnít fire up. It just cranked and cranked until it killed the battery. I ran to the store and purchased 3 gallons of gas and some spark plugs too. I replaced the plugs and fueled her up, and had the same result it just cranks but won't fire. I can see the timing is where I had it before the car went to the shop, and the only thing they did was change the oil. So I'll jump the FP and B+ today to see if the fuel pump is still working or if it's toast. While I was trying to start the car I didn't smell fuel at all, which I thought was odd being as I was cranking it for a while thinking maybe the fuel lines where bone dry, and giving it time to prime the fuel system. Well yet another hurdle and my neighbor came over with fresh salt to rub in my wounds hearing the car just crank and not fire. He comes over and says, wow now it won't even start huh....guess it might be time to get something else . I kindly smiled and told him just because I'm having trouble doesn't mean it's time to quit. I love the way people just try to smash you into the ground to someway prove that they were right all along, but I won't quit. I might get pissed and chant a few choice sailor poems and get quite frustrated , but that is to be expected. Any ideas as to what could be the problem with the car not starting . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, and I'll update later on Monday after the FP/B+ jump.

    Thanks again
    Lamont
    Last edited by lamont; 07-11-2010 at 08:48 AM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  15. #15

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    (5-3-10) Today I jumped the FP & B+ in the diagnostics port and could clearly hear the fuel pump switch on and also felt the tension in the fuel line going to the rail. So seeing that I was getting fuel to the rail I decided to try and turn it over, and it fired right up. It idled pretty high and was smoking from the exhaust manifold, not sure if it's old oil burning off or not. I also removed the breather hose from the head to see if oil was pouring from there, but I saw nothing, just strong vacuum from the intake side and air from the breather pipe from the head. It didn't smoke nearly as bad from the tailpipe, and idled OK until I gave it gas, then it started to idle a little rough but was holding at around 1100RPM. The smoke and heat put me off a bit, and I want to wait for a more experienced person to look at it with me. Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, and I will update pretty soon fingers crossed .

    Thanks again
    Lamont
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  16. #16

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    This is just amazing to see an alltrac be brought back from such devastation. Its great to see the passion is still there to keep these cars alive.
    91 Celica GT

  17. #17

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    (5-9-10) LegacyofDan & 88gt4DE AT.NET members :: made the trip out today to give me a hand, and we made some progress. We will be getting back together for another BBQ & beer soon . Thanks for making the trip out guys , it was good to brainstorm with AllTrac guru's . I also remembered that I do have a spare O2 sensor and I'll try putting it on and also swapping the plugs tomorrow when I get off work to see how she responds . Let me know when you guys want to make another trip down, I didn't even get a chance to throw the brats on the grill . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, and I'll have an update tomorrow after I swap the O2 sensor.

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    ---------- Post added at 07:39 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:10 PM ----------

    (5-10-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by 88gt4DE
    I have a few more idea for us after talking to my Master tech this morning. 1st he said to just simply unplug the coolant temp sensor ( the one the ecu uses to get coolant temp info ) and see if it changes at all .... 2nd and this one will take more time. remove your air to air intercooler and you will need to prime the fuel pump using the diag connector per instructions in the bgb. After the line is primed you need to open the thottle plate and look in with a light and see if the cold start injector is dumping fuel out of it .... scratch that map sensor until you have checked these . I think the cold start is prol it , after talking to him I remember these going bad on numerous cars .... let me know man
    Hello 88gt4DE, I did check the cold start injector and it wasn't dumping fuel at all, I then attempted to cycle through the 3 sensors on the coolant elbow and was only able to gain access to the sensor in the rear, and it idled and revved the same with it plugged in as unplugged. I unfortunately ran out of fuel before I could check the remaining two sensors in the front . To make sure I am pulling the right sensor one is brown and the other is grey. The brown sensor is closest to the intercooler. Which one exactly is the ECU coolant temp sensor ? I also cleaned the spark plugs with carb cleaner, swapped in my other O2 sensor, and fired her up. At first it was bellowing blue smoke idling, and black smoke when I hit the gas, but it responded quickly to me hitting the gas. I also noticed that after running for a couple minutes it started to idle pretty high and also when I hit the gas it didn't belch black smoke at all, still had the blue smoke though. I will pickup some gas tomorrow, but before I do that I may drop the fuel tank and replace the ST205 pump with the ST185 fuel pump I have to see if that makes any difference . The blue smoke is immediate also, as soon as the car turns over. With the clean plugs and different O2 it didn't sputter that bad at all, and after hitting the throttle it also didn't idle rough at all. Any ideas guys , the blue smoke has me a bit concerned . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, I should have another update tomorrow night.

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    ---------- Post added at 07:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:39 PM ----------

    (5-11-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by jonahs_3sgte
    turbo seals?
    when your car is running do you have a vaccum gauge? if so what is the vaccum at idle 750 to 800rpm?
    did you ever get around to the ignitor ground and ecu ground on the ecu? lol
    I don't have a vacuum gauge at the moment, but I'll see how much they are , as far as the grounds they seem ok, but I do have a spool of 12 gauge wire that I will run leads to the negative terminal to test the grounds.

    88gt4DE, Dan and I checked, just to make sure I tested the cold start injector properly; I jumped FP & B+ and opened the throttle body while I could hear the fuel cycling and feel the fuel running through the return line. While it was still jumped there was no fuel at all coming from the cold start injector. Is this right or should I have check after I removed the jumper . The mechanic did say that there was fuel in the oil, I will check this today after work to see if fuel is getting into the oil now.

    Hello again 3tcpower, the FPR and the return line where checked while the fuel pump was jumped, but I have not tested them while the car is idling. Tonight if I get the fuel pump changed out I will check them while the car idles.

    Thanks again guys

    ---------- Post added at 08:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:56 PM ----------

    (5-15-10) OK guys so I spent most of today working on Project Phoenix and I made some progress. I dropped the fuel tank to swap out the ST205 fuel pump with the stock ST185 pump, and during the swap I noticed that I had the wiring wrong on the ST205 pump. There are 3 wires two blue and one black, and in my infinite wisdom I thought the one black wire and one blue wire that went to some type of resistor or capacitor was another ground. It was a true Homer moment when I noticed that on the ST185 pump the 2 blue leads were both one the positive terminal and the black lead was on the negative terminal . Now that the fuel pump is properly installed, the car isn't running nearly as rich, but it still is puffing blue smoke so I'm guessing that my turbo needs a rebuild. On a side note I picked up a very nice system10 head unit complete with CD, but something is wrong with it. It plays extremely low, but everything works CD and tape deck as well . I like the look of it so I may see if it can be serviced or if I can pick one up from another member . If anyone has one laying around I'll buy it for the right price . I also picked up an AFM extension from Gary, who I also bought the radio from , and I'm going to be running a straight intake once I get all the tubing and a bung welded on my intake tube for a MR2 BOV. I also have a few parts on the way. A set of 89-92 Supra MK3 fogs for my RC/CS bumper, I wanted to buy a set for a long time and finally found some that I could afford. $61 shipped on eBay . I also have some custom parts inbound from the UK for the custom big brake kit I'm putting together. When my personal economy recovers from this little shopping spree I will attempt to get a new distributor cap-rotor-and leads, and a front mount intercooler kit . That was the original plan for this week but I couldn't pass on the few parts that I did purchase. Why do I have to be so poor . I read other guys project posts and their big brake kit costs more than my entire project to date , oh well you work with what you have I guess, just wish I had a little more . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys. I will keep you guys up-to-date on new parts as they arrive .

    Thanks again
    Lamont
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  18. #18

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    (5-19-10) Hey guys, so this weekend I decided to run ground wires to all the major engine bay locations: coil, igniter, engine block, and resistor packs. WOW what a difference, the car has come to life and is running very good. It's like night and day, the car actually has sharp throttle response and idles nicely too . I wasn't expecting such a huge difference, and a few guys have been saying this the whole time , but I never in my wildest dreams thought grounds could effect the performance that drastically. I would like to apologize for not listening earlier my noobness got the best of me again . The car is still smoking, but only blue/grey smoke no black smoke under heavy throttle. I was so tempted to take it around the block, but decided not to until I fixed the headlight which turned out to be a badly oxidized female plug, and the horn which was wouldn't you know it bad grounds . I guess in hind sight painting the entire engine bay black looks cool, but I believe all the grounding points were painted over and now are causing all kinds of issues. I also received another fuse box from darthripley OMG I wasn't expecting such a nice fuse block for $15 shipped it even had all the fuses and relays . Thanks darthripley very nice indeed. Earlier this week I took the time to retrofit the MKIII Supra foglights to the CS/RC crash bar, and it wasn't really hard, but I think I'm going to have some issues fitting a front mount , but it does look cool. I also fitted a straight intake and relocated the battery back like 10 inches, it's going in the trunk when I get funds for a relocation kit. So here are some pictures guys, be honest let me know what you think.



























    Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, I hope to have another update for this weekend .

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    ---------- Post added at 05:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:42 PM ----------

    (5-23-10) I took the time to swap out the fenders, and it made a big difference . The original fenders were OK, but I had a spare set so I decided to use these instead . Being completely broke this week I decided to do some inexpensive mods, so I noticed that there was a link on how to turn off your air bag light so I decided to give it a shot. The Radio Shack parts required were about $6 so I decided it was within the budget . I constructed the tool and followed the instructions and now my air bag light is no longer on . Keeping with the poor mans mod theme I also decided to do the fog light mod and it was extremely easy literally took 2 minutes to complete . I like the idea of having the fogs on whenever you want not just when the headlights are on. I looks pretty cool with just the fogs on and nothing else . So my spending for this weekend was $6 at Radio Shack and $1.29 at Lowes for a 6 pack of wire tap splices. So 2 mods for $7.29 now thatís a budget build . I also changed the oil this weekend, and what I found is a little disturbing . I drained the oil and it was diluted heavily with fuel. When I measured it out it was almost 1 Ĺ gallons that came from my oil pan . It was nearly 60% fuel. I know the fuel pump was wired up wrong, but I'm not sure if that would have caused this problem . I filled the car with Royal Purple 10w30, which I purchased last week for $50 , but it did come with a K&N oil filter that has a 1" nut on the top to screw it on and off with nice . So no that was not part of budget build weekend . I will see after I run it for a while I will check the oil level to see if it is rising. If it is I may have some serious problems on my hands. I will also be doing another compression test to see if my numbers are the same. Any ideas guys, I'm really confused as to what could cause so much fuel to get into the oil like that . I took a few pictures to show my progress guys. Thanks for following Project Phoenix

























    ---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:12 PM ----------

    (5-24-10) Hey guys I got home today and FedEx delivered my parts from Japan . I picked up the vented corners and also the high sprayer nozzles to clear the hood spoiler on the CS/RC hood. Probably a little over priced on the sprayer nozzles, but I think they look good . So here are a few PICS I took today. Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys.







    Before


    After


    Before


    After


    Before


    After


    Before


    After
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  19. #19

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    (6-7-10) Hey guys, I have been really busy trying to figure out what is causing Project Phoenix to run so rich. So far I have changed the fuel pump, fuel rail, injectors, fuel pressure regulator, ECU, AFM, O2 sensor, rewired all grounding points, changed all the coolant temperature sensors including the fan switch :shrug: , and dozens of different spark plugs . All have had minor impact with the exception of the grounding points which woke the engine up now it runs much better, but still over fueling to the point that I'm getting tons of gas in the oil pan . I did go for a short drive roughly 1/2 mile total up to third gear and it pulled strong through the gears no grinds at all, but due to the over fueling I knew not to take it too far because of the oil being thinned out by gas . So while I was placing the throttle body back on to the intake manifold I managed to completely strip out one of the bolts that holds the rubber intake flange to the throttle body . So it needs to be tapped out or replaced . I also have more bad news on the big brake kit the guy who was selling me some parts for the kit took my money and disappeared sometimes I think to myself wtf is wrong with some people it's enough to make you want commit a serious crime against their faces , but you win some you lose some and the big brake kit looks like a loss for now. I may try to have some parts custom made once I have the car running properly. I am going to do another compression test today after work to see if the numbers are still good or not. I have no idea what the problem is, but if I can't figure it out soon I will just replace the entire engine . I think I have thrown enough money at it for now and its not really showing any signs of improvement so maybe its fubar . If it wasn't for bad luck I wouldn't have any luck at all . On a more positive note I did manage to rewire my 90 system 10 harness to accept the later 3 in 1 style 92-93 system 10 radio looks completely stock and awesome . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys hopefully my luck changes soon and I'll have a positive post for a change

    Thanks again
    Lamont
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  20. #20

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    (6-10-10) Hey guys, so I decided today after checking my ECU grounds and coming up with good resistance numbers that I would take another short drive. So it pulls good in 1st and 2nd but when I shift to 3rd it's like at first nothing happens as if I'm not pressing the accelerator at all. Then after a few seconds after the car slows down a bit the engine slowly sounds like its kicking back in and after that it will pull good in 3rd but repeats the same thing in 4th . No clue what’s happening here, but I did notice some residue on the alternator and valve cover like maybe something electrical was arching, its hard to explain but it looks like a chalky dust almost . I also watched as the gas needle went from just over a 1/4 tank to almost empty in the 1 mile round trip. So seeing as its still running super rich and the gas is definitely still filling the oil pan I thought maybe the head was warped or cracked and it didn't show on my 1st compression test because the engine was cold. So as soon as I got back home I took the intercooler off very hot after my 1 mile voyage and I did a compression test while the engine was still warm just to see the change in the results:

    Cylinder 1 Cold


    Cylinder 1 Hot -3psi


    Cylinder 2 Cold


    Cylinder 2 Hot -2psi


    Cylinder 3 Cold


    Cylinder 3 Hot -12psi


    Cylinder 4 Cold


    Cylinder 4 Hot -12psi


    Notice how cylinders 1 and 2 have a relative low compression difference while cylinders 3 and 4 have much larger drops in compression . I'm not sure if this test shows much, but I think its odd that the compression differences would be this significant. I'm not sure what’s the next step here. Do I continue to work on this engine or purchase a new one or another cylinder head to see if that fixes the problem . I am at a serious cross roads because I need this car in running condition by this time next month. What do you guys take from the compression number differences and any suggestions how I should proceed. On a positive note AlltracAllday has decided to donate his Auzzie down pipe to me . I also took a pic of the 3-in-1 OEM radio as well take a look:




    I have to figure out my next step here guys, I'm seriously running out of time here . By the way that's a functional JDM push type auto open ashtray under the radio . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, I will be swapping the throttle body this weekend and I'll be disconnecting the cold start injector to see if that does anything

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    ---------- Post added at 05:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:58 PM ----------

    (6-14-10) Hey guys, I disconnected the fuel return line and blew the line out with a 150psi air compressor. I also placed an extra long hose to the end of the return line and into an old windshield washer bottle to catch any debris that could have been clogging the line. There were tiny pieces of what looked like either black paint chips or black rubber specs not sure . It didn't look like something that could have clogged the line so I also used the compressor to blow out the metal return line on the fuel tank as well. I did run the car afterward and its still bellowing black smoke when I hit the accelerator .

    Quote Originally Posted by GrpAGT4
    So you replaced the coolant temp sensor right. Have you checked the coolant sensor connector? Mine is prone to pushin the connector through the plug when you push it onto the sensor. I had to get a paper clip and push it back onto the prong once the connector was on the sensor. By this stage i had checked every possible thing for my overfueling issue and it turned out to be the stupid plug. My car ran and idled but over fueled like crazy as it thought it was always cold.
    I did replace one of the connectors that had a missing clip, it was the brown connector closest to the cylinder head. I also cleaned all the connectors as well. I did pick-up another set of coolant connectors this weekend and I will swap them in tonight and see if it helps any . Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, and I will update later tonight with some new parts and some very nice freebies compliments of celi_wabbit

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    ---------- Post added at 06:02 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:27 PM ----------

    (6-17-10) Hey guys, first the bad news . I changed my throttle body, and the entire waterneck including sensors, and the car is still over fueling terribly . To make things worse now it only revs to about 3k RPM then just falls flat on its face . So I am just about ready to throw in the towel on this engine . Before you go feeling sorry for me there is some good news: I did purchase a ST185 RC/CS WTA intercooler from celi_wabbit for a very reasonable price , and he threw in at no extra cost a complete 91 3SGTE long block . It did overheat before it was pulled in favor of his new engine so it will most likely need a new head gasket and/or thermostat. Celi_wabbit also donated the st185 engine splash guards/under panels & an aftermarket intake manifold spacer/gasket made from a special plastic to lower intake air temperatures . Many thanks to celi_wabbit for his generosity, it's very appreciated indeed . So I will be purchasing a head gasket set, and I already have a set of ARP head studs to get this engine in running condition. I might send the block and head off to the machine shop to be hot tanked, cylinders honed, and block and head decked as well. So I might need a little help breaking everything down to have it ready for machining in the coming weeks. Anyone who's up for it; food and beer/beverage of your choice are on me. I also picked up a 3" exhaust front section with flex section in good condition from Toy&LexTech for a very reasonable price . If you combine this with the Aussie downpipe that was donated to me from AlltracAllday I should be in pretty good shape, many thanks guys . Maybe my luck is taking a turn for the better . I will try to get some pics posted tonight of all the parts. Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys and the great generosity of the Alltrac community (Happy Tears)

    Thanks again
    Lamont
    Last edited by lamont; 08-06-2010 at 07:09 PM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  21. #21

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    One Word:
    DearGodYouPutMoreWorkIntoThatCarThenIEverWouldHave KeepUpTheGreatPost!

    Two Words:
    Looking Good!

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    I play well with others....
    Others, Not you.

  22. #22

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    (6-17-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by 3tcpower
    Thats cool you got some new goodies. That will be nice................but there has to be a way to get that motor to behave.

    Just to make the troubleshooting easier for anyone who views this thread, can you recap what you have done to try and fix this?

    I would just be concerned that you replace the motor, but the overfueling continues.
    A quick recap:
    1. I installed the motor and ST205 fuel pump (fuel pump was wired incorrectly )
    2. I changed the AFM twice
    3. I changed the throttle position sensor
    4. I changed the ECU
    5. I did a compression test cold: 172-180 across all cylinders
    6. LegacyofDan and 88gt4DE stopped by to diagnose the issue and changed the timing to 10* before Top Dead Center
    7. I changed the fuel pump to a ST185 unit and wired it correctly
    8. I installed new ground leads to the igniter, coil, starter, block, battery, horns too they didn't work, everything had bad ground points from the chassis being painted black.
    9. I replaced the fuel rail, injectors all new o-rings, and fuel pressure regulator, while this was being done I accidentally stripped out the threads from one of the throttle body coupler holes
    10. I did a compression test warm: 162-170 across all cylinders
    11. I replaced all the temperature sensors on the waterneck and the radiator cooling fan, and replaced the thermostat
    12. I used an air compressor to blow out the fuel return line
    13. I changed the throttle body and the entire waterneck w/ sensors and another sensor harness.

    Between all these changes I have replaced the spark plugs countless times using different types from platinum, iridium, and copper with no change at all. I also had to change the oil a few times, every time it's very thinned out by gas at least three times the amount of gas to oil. I wanted to verify that it was in fact gas and not coolant so I did a fire test. I poured a bit of what drained from my oil pan on the ground put a match to it and it ignited and burned very well . Everyone I have told about this problem including Toyota Techs are scratching their heads, because this type of problem may happen to some degree with an engine with a bad piston or bad rings but not to the point of filling your oil pan with gas and certainly not on an engine with good compression. It is a complete mystery how this is happening .

    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyofDan
    well i am going to hyperfest this weekend, but the coming week i should be free during the week, wakkjob is in PA for a bit and he will be paying me a visit either monday or tuesday but other than that my schedule is free all next week, i can help you out man, lemme know
    Sounds good, I'm free all next week after work, I'm home by 5:00pm. Let me know when you’d like to stop by, we'll have a few hours of daylight

    ---------- Post added at 07:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:42 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Siyx View Post
    One Word:
    DearGodYouPutMoreWorkIntoThatCarThenIEverWouldHave KeepUpTheGreatPost!

    Two Words:
    Looking Good!

    Thank you Sir, lots more to come, but my wideband connection is having trouble loading all the pics


    (6-18-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by 3tcpower
    Just a few more random ideas..............

    Disconnect the o2. From what I remember that puts the ecu in closed loop? (no clue on terminology). Curious if that would change the running conditions.

    Along those lines, disconnect either stuff maybe (MAF).

    Also, when I had a DSM, people said if the coolant sensor died or functioned incorrectly it could cause the car to dump too much fuel.

    Just trying to throw more shit out.
    Yeah, 3tcpower I tried disconnecting all the sensors one at a time, and really didn't have much of a change made it run a little more crappy , but that's it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terracar
    The water sensors will cause it to run like crap and bog down from too much fuel, but he has replaced them. Is there a short somewhere in the wiring to the injectors?

    Where is the fuel pressure regulator hooked up? Also another thought - have you had the injectors checked? Or swapped with known good ones?

    -Terracar
    I was told that the fuel rail I swapped in was from a good running Alltrac, the fuel rail was removed from a spare engine because the owner upgraded to a ST205 swap. The FPR is on the drivers side of the fuel rail standard location. It runs exactly the same with the swapped in fuel rail as it did with the original, and it still over fuels terribly

    Quote Originally Posted by 88gt4DE
    I cant believe the cold start injector isnt bad since its dumping across all the cylinders , but I know dan checked it already ... still dumb founded by this .. i think about it alot ! haha
    Hey 88gt4DE, Dan did check it with the FP & B+ jumped in the diagnostics box, but could it still be faulty under normal idle? I will replace it to see if it helps, it might at this point it’s well worth a try at least. I will also try running the car with the cold start injector unplugged to see how it runs with it disabled as well. At this point I'm willing to try anything. I don't look forward to taking this engine out, and would like to avoid doing the swap if at all possible .

    Thanks again guys, keep the suggestions coming
    Lamont
    Last edited by lamont; 08-06-2010 at 08:24 PM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  23. #23

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    Incredi-awesome!

  24. #24

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    (6-18-10) OK, guys here's an update. Today after work I decided to remove the throttle body to swap out the cold start injector, and to clean the throttle body as well the idle air controller spout was clogged that runs to the valve cover. So I swapped in the spare cold start injector and cleaned the throttle body up removing the clog with an air compressor and some carb cleaner. I reinstalled everything, changed the fuel injector & fuel pump resistor packs, but left the cold start injector unplugged. I also changed the oil as well. I started the car and it's still running super rich . I got further proof of just how rich it's running when my neighbor lit my exhaust on fire and a huge flame extended out of the tail pipe . Something is seriously messed up here, and I'm leaning toward faulty wiring, due to the fact that everything mechanical so far I have changed aside from the grounding points has had little to no effect on how the car runs . Not sure how to address this problem because wiring harnesses are pretty hard to come by . I will see if Dr. Tweak can modify a MR2 harness for me or something . I think it's worth a shot, running that rich to me is crazy I mean the thing shot out a 6 foot flame out of the exhaust guys . Its almost like the pistons are pumping raw fuel out through the exhaust could it be a spark issue ? I could invest in new plugs, cap & rotor, but at this point will that really help that much if it's running pig rich . I'm lost here guys, I honestly have no clue what my next step should be. I'm just thinking how much of a waste it would be if I spent the money to rebuild and swap in another engine to have the same thing happen. I would seriously flip and end up in a psychiatric ward of a mental institution . So before I lose my remaining brain cells, any ideas guys on how I should proceed? Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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  25. #25

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    (6-21-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy
    Lamont,

    A couple years ago I rebuilt a 2nd gen and put it into my 165. At the same time I extended a JDM wiring harness and put it in as well.

    On start up it ran so rich, it was blowing out a white cloud of gas fumes from the exhaust. I'm sure it would have ignited and burned too.

    Reason: a bad solder connection (or something) on the VS signal from the AFM to the ECU.

    Fix: I used a different wire.

    What I have found is: The VS signal to the ECU is 4 volts with the flapper closed (idle) it goes to about 1/2 volt when the flapper is wide open. So, as more air flows thru the AFM, the voltage signal to the ECU goes down.

    In my case the bad connection (bad wire, something) made the voltage go down. The ECU therefore seen this as a lot of air passing through the AFM and calculated the fuel accordingly.

    If you start testing wires, I would start with the VS from the AFM.

    I would disconnect the AFM and the ECU and then test the VS wire to make sure it has NO connectivity to ground and test the resistance of the wire. Then, reconnect the AFM and ECU. With ignition on, to power up the sensor, test the voltage on the VS where it is going into the ECU (either by probing at the wire connector going into the ECU at the plug, or open the ECU and put a test clip on it from the inside). If you are seeing much less than 4 volts with the flapper closed, then the ECU will think there is notable air flowing. If you open the flapper all the way the voltage should drop to about 1/2 volt.

    Also, test the voltage into the AFM, it should be getting 5 volts. Reason: If you are not getting a full 5 volt (power supply) into the AFM, you will likely not get the proper signal out of it. Note: The TPS and vacume/boost sensor also share this 5 volt power feed.


    just my $.02
    Andy

    (6-21-10) Hello guys, I did most of the EFI system check procedure from the BGB and here is what I found:

    VOLTAGE at ECU Wiring Connectors

    +B - E1 = 10.92v STD = 10 - 14v
    +B1 - E1 = 10.89v STD = 10 - 14 v
    BATT - E1 = 10.88v STD = 10 - 14v
    IDL - E2 = .02v STD = 4.5 - 5.5v
    VC - E2 = 0.00v STD = 4.5 - 5.5v
    VTA - E2 = 0.02v (throttle valve open) STD = 0.1 - 1.0v
    VTA - E2 = 0.00v (throttle valve open & Ignition switched off) STD = 3.2 - 4.2v
    VC - E2 = 0.00v STD = 4.5 - 5.5v
    VS - E2 = 0.00v (measuring plate fully closed) STD = 3.7 - 4.3v
    VS - E2 = 0.00v (measuring plate fully open) STD = 0.2 - 0.5v
    No.1 - E01 = 11.47v STD = 10 - 14v
    No.2 - E01 = 11.43v STD = 10 - 14v
    No.3 - E01 = 11.41v STD = 10 - 14v
    No.4 - E01 = 11.40v STD = 10 - 14v
    No.1 - E02 = 11.46v STD = 10 - 14v
    No.2 - E02 = 11.42v STD = 10 - 14v
    No.3 - E02 = 11.41v STD = 10 - 14v
    No.4 - E02 = 11.39v STD = 10 - 14v
    THA1 - E2 = 0.00v STD = 1 - 3v
    THW - E2 = 0.00v STD = 0.1 - 1.1v
    RSC - E1 = 8.35v STD = 8 - 14v
    RSO - E1 = 8.35v STD = 8 - 14v
    PIM - E2 = 0.00v STD = 2.5 - 4.5v
    VC - E2 = 0.00v STD = 4.5 - 5.5V
    AC1 - E1 = 0.00V Air conditioning ON STD = 8 - 14v


    ECU ground resistance Ignition Switch ON

    E1 - Chassis = 9.0 Ohms
    E01 - Chassis = 9.0 Ohms
    E02 - Chassis = 9.0 Ohms


    Voltage ECU to Chassis Ground

    PIM - Chassis = 4.3v
    E2 - Chassis = 4.3v (this might explain why I cant get a voltage reading when using E2 as a ground. It has 4.3v running through it .
    VC - Chassis = 4.3v
    VS - Chassis = 0.00v


    Airflow Meter Inspection

    VS - E2 = 283 Ohms flap fully closed STD = 200 - 600 Ohms
    VS - E2 = 68.4 Ohms flap fully open STD = 20 - 1,200 Ohms
    VC - E2 = 280 Ohms STD = 200 - 400 Ohms
    THA - E2 = 1.6 K Ohms STD = Varies by temp Ambient air temp 0.9 - 3 K Ohms 68* - 104*


    AFM Wiring Harness test w/ECU plugged in and Ignition Switch ON

    VS - E2 = 0.00v
    VC - E2 = 4.9v
    THA - E2 = 4.9v



    Throttle Body Position Sensor Inspection

    VTA - E2 = 0.92 K Ohms (Throttle fully closed) STD = 0.2 - 0.8 K Ohms
    VTA - E2 = 4.7 K Ohms (Throttle fully open) STD = 3.3 - 10.3 K Ohms
    VC - E2 = 5.8 K Ohms STD = 3 - 8.3 K Ohms



    Throttle Body Position Sensor Wiring Harness w/ECU plugged in and Ignition Switch ON

    VTA - E2 = 0.00v
    VC - E2 = 4.98v
    IDL - E2 = 7.4v


    So I have concluded that the VS & E2 wires need to be repaired or replaced . Also I'm no pro when it comes to wiring so if you guys see anything that I missed or any suggestion as to how to repair the wiring that would be great. Thanks for following Project Phoenix guys, and I may be replacing the harness rather than fixing it .

    Thanks again
    Lamont

    ---------- Post added at 05:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:41 PM ----------



    (6-22-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy
    Since I was not using the cruise control wiring, I just borrowed one of those wires, as a substiture VS wire.

    You might want to try running a temporary patch wire(s) just to confirm that this is where the problem is.


    E2 - Chassis = 4.3v (this might explain why I cant get a voltage reading when using E2 as a ground. It has 4.3v running through it .
    Not sure w/o looking, but if E2 is the ground to the TPS, AFM and Vacume/boost sensor, then you might want to check the voltage with all sensors unpluged so they are not affecting the reading.

    Andy
    Hey Andy, according the BGB E2 is the ground for all the sensors, so could it be that with the sensors connected the circuit is complete and I can't get a reading for E2? Because on the wiring harness end with the ECU connected I can get an E2 reading in every plug . I have no clue where to begin on fixing the VS issue though. Is it simply a matter of tracing the wire looking for a break, or just running a new lead from the ECU to the AFM plug (forgive my noobness )


    Quote Originally Posted by jonahs_3sgte
    good to hear your making progress
    i had to the same problem with my e1 ground
    came to find out...when my buddy soldered the wire together it didnt hold and broke off lol

    keep up the good work...

    its funny how a trained mechanic at a garage couldnt fix it but you can
    Hey Jonah, guess I'm a little more motivated, and without an OBDII port some mechanics don't want to diagnose anything because of the ballooned hourly labor rates, just to find the problem might be a couple thousand dollars . Then you have to actually fix it , but seriously I'm just listening to you guys, I am just following directions , by myself I would never have gotten this far. All Kudos should go to the Alltrac.net community


    Quote Originally Posted by LegacyofDan
    Good job man, i can probably stop up today...but not sure what i can help with...i am at that point of like "wtf do we do next" but i can help you with the wiring and figure out a patch and try to narrow things down. :shrug:
    That would be great Dan, I should be home around 5:30 today. Give me a call and I'll make sure I'm home

    ---------- Post added at 05:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:11 PM ----------

    (6-22-10)
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy
    On the E2, the reason I suggested disconnecting the other sensors is at least the TPS (and the AFM) operate with potentiometers, aka "variable voltage dividers". Keyword, "Divider". The sensors are getting a 5 volt supply voltage. A "variable voltage divider" is taking the supply voltage (5V) and dividing it, depending on where the flapper is in the AFM, and/or how far open the TB is (the variable). Part goes to the ECU, the rest goes to the E2 ground.

    With the TPS as I remember, the voltage to the ECU will be low when it's closed. It has 5 volts coming in, say 1/2 volt is going to the ECU because the TB is closed. The other 4.5 volts (or so) is getting dumped to ground through E2. I 'think' that may be what you were seeing on E2.

    By disconnecting the other sensors that would be eliminated.

    For E2, with TPS, AFM, and vac/boost sensors disconnected I would just make sure it has connectivity to ground, engine block or the negative bat terminal.

    Disconnect the AFM and the ECU. The VS wire should now 'Not" be connected to anything. Check for connectivity between the VS wire and a ground (engine block or neg bat terminal). If you "are" getting any connectivity between VS and ground then the 4V from the AFM is going to ground before it gets to the ECU. Also test for connectivity between both ends, from AFM to ECU, if the wire is "broken" somewhere, then the ECU will not see the 4V.

    Do you have a spare AFM you could swap in? maybe LegacyofDan could loan you one for a test. Don't want to hack any wiring if the problem is in the AFM.

    If the AFM is good, then I would consider cutting the VS wire near the AFM and again testing the voltage. If you then see 4V with the flapper closed then the VS wire has probably shorted to a ground somewhere along the way to the ECU. (but, that should be caught by the test above) Cut the VS wire near the ECU and substitute in a good wire....

    Where/how did you measure "VS - Chassis" right near the AFM or at the ECU ?

    Your test results also show: "PIM - Chassis = 4.3v"
    PIM is from the vac/boost sensor. When the car is not running, zero vac, zero boost, it should be giving you about 2.5 volts. At 20 inches of Hg the voltage should be very low (maybe 1/2 Volt). When in "boost", 4.3 volts is where you hit fuel cut, around 13 lbs of boost. I doubt you were boosting 13 lbs when you tested it, so you may want to retest it. Maybe it read funny if/because you were using E2 as the ground, but I 'think' that should be OK.

    Note: A "Fuel Cut Defender" is a "voltage divider" where the PIM signal is the supply voltage. By "dividing" the PIM signal some of the voltage is being dumped to ground the rest goes to the ECU. So, when the PIM is 4.3 volts, but .2 volts is "divided" to ground, the ECU only sees 4.1 volts, and thus Fuel cut is raised.

    Hope this helps...

    Andy
    Last edited by lamont; 08-08-2010 at 06:20 PM.
    90 Celica Alltrac (code-name Project Phoenix)
    94 Celica GT (Selene)

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