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  1. #1
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Default Bad vibrations - an exersize in futility

    So I have these problems with noises roaring through my cabin on the Alltrac and at least solved a couple of them when I found the problems on my passenger side wheel bearing - but still have allot of vibration - it sounds like "grinding gears" and primarily occurs after I have accelerated up to speed and let off on the throttle.

    I thought it might be something with the trans or driveline - but I can also make the noise happen with the clutch in just by revving the engine. So I thought maybe part of the problem was a bad rear motor mount. I had tried to check it out but could not see the thing so I just went ahead and bought one - to the tune of about $60 from the dealer - as I could not find it anywhere else.

    So I got it up on stands today with plans to change the thing out - and come to find after messing around with the fender well plastics that I could see the thing through the hole where the tie rod comes out on he driver side - and while it looks a little anemic - there is really nothing wrong with that mount. I should have done more homework before I bought that mount!

    Anyway, when I dropped the lateral crossmember I didn't understand because I was looking for FOUR bolts and two nuts but I could only find TWO bolts. I don't know why it took me long to figure it out - that this is another FEATURE of my car! Two bolts were missing so it is easier to take apart! After dropping the lateral crossmember I find that indeed the rear motor mount looks fine - but the mount has only ONE of the two mounting bolts to the main crossmember!

    Just like my exhaust manifold with 5 out of 7 bolts (studs) present and one of those held on by about two threads - one bolt in the O2 sensor - no bolts at all in the two engine bay fuse boxes - they are held in place by the "under net" of frayed wires and hoses that form my engine bay.

    I had also wanted to hook up my speedo cable today - and while I did not get that done I did make some progress. I actually SAW where it goes! At least I'm pretty sure. I saw the connection there right behind where the hard lines go to the steering gear - it had something screwed on it that seems to end with some sort of electrical connector (black plastic thing on top) - I was able to barely touch it - but no way can I see how to actually get to it and make any connections without getting my car up much higher and also taking off the main crossmember.

    I'll know how to spot it next time - it is next to the charcoal canister that is hanging there in mid-air suspended by it's various vacuum and other lines - right next to the 3/8" flared tube that is open - probably part of the vapor system. All of these are easy to spot from below as they are just beneath the mass of wires with the ball of electrical tape around it which obscures things from above.

    When I was running out of light I just got the wheels back on and had to chase the wheel studs with a die as they were a little "fudgy" - so I got all that done and backed it out the door and while I was picking up my tools my 3/4" drive ratchet that was leaning against the wall fell down right on the end of my finger.

    So that is a little "progress" - guess - at least I know more than I did before. I just hope the next batch doesn't cost quite so much blood.
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  2. #2
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Doowstados will become famous soon enough Doowstados will become famous soon enough

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    Sounds like the previous owner was a real winner. I guess nobody told him that extra parts is never a good thing!

    Hopefully none of those bolts are as difficult to find and replace as my idler pulley bolt is.
    - Dustin J.

    1991 Toyota Celica GT

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  3. #3
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doowstados View Post
    Sounds like the previous owner was a real winner. I guess nobody told him that extra parts is never a good thing!
    It's a known fact that ANY part can be held together with LOTS of hardware. It takes a REAL engineer to put something together with less. This is along the lines that a good engineer can design something that lasts forever. It takes a GREAT engineer that can build something that will last a day past the warranty expires."
    The VIS Carbon Fiber hood Group Buy is CLOSED.
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  4. #4
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Doowstados will become famous soon enough Doowstados will become famous soon enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by temperacerguy View Post
    It's a known fact that ANY part can be held together with LOTS of hardware. It takes a REAL engineer to put something together with less. This is along the lines that a good engineer can design something that lasts forever. It takes a GREAT engineer that can build something that will last a day past the warranty expires."

    It takes a lack of work ethic to forget/lose bolts.
    - Dustin J.

    1991 Toyota Celica GT

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  5. #5
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice

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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doowstados View Post
    It takes a lack of work ethic to forget/lose bolts.
    It was sarcasm.... perhaps we should create a "rolling eyes" smiley face.
    The VIS Carbon Fiber hood Group Buy is CLOSED.
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  6. #6
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Yea - it just plain "slack" to leave out those bolts - but I think I have a car that is extra parts left over from building another car.

    Anyway - the bolt is a common one - so I will have no problems to get it either from the dealer or McMaster-Carr.

    What I really need though is an engine harness in some kind of shape that I can use to fix the one I have - and to finish going through the suspension to find any more "features".
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  7. #7

    Default

    Youch, it sounds like yours is worse than mine was [half assed together].

    It also sounds like you have a JDM electric speed sensor on your trans.
    You just have to unscrew it and screw in your cable, the bottom part is the same as the US one.

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  8. #8

    Default

    glad u found out about the missing bolts, and didnt bleed out to much
    R.I.P Cherry Bomb (1990 Celica ST)


    They call me Hadoken because im DOWN RIGHT FIERCE
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  9. #9
    Senior Member underscore is a jewel in the rough underscore is a jewel in the rough underscore is a jewel in the rough
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    Default

    that's even worse than whoever unplugged a vacuum line off the back of my motor, and tucked it away for safekeeping but never plugged it back on...
    1992 GT-S // 1991 GTFour RC // 2007 Jeep Grand Cherokee CRD

  10. #10
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Default

    Well - all of this exercise was for the good - though the real "proof" will come tomorrow.

    I got all this work done just in time to put my wheels down when it got dark.

    I found that I had the two bolts for the suspension crossmember that I needed in the "tackle box" of bolts that I got with the 3SGE engine I bought. I also found that while the rubber on my old rear mount was good - both of the mount to center member holes were stripped.

    Also - one of the center member holes in the body was fudged up - as well as one of the suspension crossmember holes as well.

    Three out of the ~9 bolts in this mounting system were stripped.

    Using bolts I have from my 3SGE purchase - and taps and dies - I have ALL the bolts replaced and torqued to factory spec.

    I also found that the rear mount I had on my car - which had stripped mounting bolt holes - was also different from the one I bought from the dealer. I will post pics about that.

    I have just driven the thing around the block a few times - and it certainly does seem that my noises and vibrations are much subsided - as a matter of fact there are only some exhaust vibrations from the right side now - no longer any deafening roars.

    I will know better about that tomorrow - after I drive it to work and back.
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  11. #11
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Default

    So here is a low res pic of what I took out of this thing:

    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  12. #12
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Default

    On the left is the mount that came out - on the right is the mount that I ordered from the Toyota dealer and what ultimately went back in. Note that wile these two mounts do seem similar - one has an off-center mount.

    Aside from that - those bolts above the mounts - and the rubber insulators - I was completely surprised by those - I did not expect such nor did I see any such illustrations in what documentation I have at hand.

    I will need to look those up at my local dealer and order them - for the next go-round- cuz right now while we are "better" - we are still not "best".
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  13. #13
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    So - it's official! Drove it to work today and only one single noise left - a vibration coming from the exhaust right where the hanger is. Easy to pinpoint now. I had checked out that hanger this weekend and it seemed to be OK - a ~1/4" rod welded to the midpipe and anchored to the frame in a rubber mount. I did notice that the weld on it is really "hacked" looking - large balls of weld material in spots. Maybe it's broke.

    Anyway - the effort was well worth it - the noises and vibrations have decreased by ~90%.

    I do think I'm gonna get all those rubber bushings for the center crossmember mount though.
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  14. #14

    Default

    Get the speed source aluminum ones.
    Cheaper and will limit engine movement more.

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  15. #15
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    Just watch out with the speed source ones.

    Joey has the speed source aluminum chassis mounts and the speed source poly motor mount inserts. His core support snapped. Since you have stock mounts you may be ok, I personally wouldn't run them on a street car. Track yes, but not a street car.
    Jasmine - 1989 GTS. GenIV 3s-gte, e153 LSD transmission, 3" turbo-back exhaust. SOLD

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  16. #16
    Lifetime Member shreddr69 is on a distinguished road
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    Default

    Any hacked and slapped back together car can be a down right nightmare. I am having some of the same frustrations brought on by the previous owner of my car. Good luck....

  17. #17
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    Those Speed Source mounts will bring back that vibration at idle. The way to compensate is to adjust the idle to be a little higher.

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    "Pain and despair, damage and beatings, they don't end the world. The world ends when you're dead. You've got more punishment in store. Until then, stand it like a man and give some back".

  18. #18
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Yea - I remember you recommended those early on Jeremy - and perhaps ultimatly I will install them.

    For now I just need to hear my car so I can figure out what else is going on with it before something breaks or I kill myself - after all I did find a front axle bolt finger tight. I figured the rubber mounts would be better to limit transmission of engine vibration to the body.

    I do still have that kind of grinding noise though - it only starts after the thing is well heated up so I did not hear it until on my way home from work yesterday in traffic. It sounds like grinding gears but seems to be RPM related - as ounce it starts I can reproduce it just by revving the thing. I'm going to go through the exhaust next - it is new mandrel bent 3" up to and including the mid pipe. There is only one hanger on it - about the middle of the midpipe - and the weld on it looks really hacked.

    Still - all in all it's much better - I just have two main noises now. I might even get a stereo!
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  19. #19
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    I did take it out again tonight - a perfect night to do it because it is raining and really shitty weather so nobody is on the road.

    Same results (I like predictable) - just the one rasping noise from the right side that is obviously exhaust rattle.

    Yet after it heated up I hear this "grinding" noise again. Before this noise has always seemed to come right from the center where the gearshift is - this evening it seemed more to come from the driver side wheel area. The noise def does not start till the thing is heated up.

    This noise is also def some "resonant" thing - it happens between ~ 2400-3000 RPM - and I can reproduce the noise just by revving the engine - with the clutch engaged - always at that RPM level.

    This car has only a few bolts in the fenders - the rest of the fender mounting holes are "secured" by tie wraps. So wile I doubt fender rattling would occur only after it is heated up - anything is possible I guess.

    This weekend should be clear - so I will tackle the exhaust and also bolt down the fenders to see what I get.

    Hopefully I will also be able to get the speedo cable installed - I think I will drive the front up on ramps to try to get to it.
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  20. #20

    Default

    You're not going to have much luck with the speedo cable from the bottom, you can barely get at it.
    Easier from the top.

    Take your time lining up the key between the cable and the gear, it can be a PITA.
    And make sure you get it seated right.

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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurnyD Jr View Post
    Just watch out with the speed source ones.

    Joey has the speed source aluminum chassis mounts and the speed source poly motor mount inserts. His core support snapped. Since you have stock mounts you may be ok, I personally wouldn't run them on a street car. Track yes, but not a street car.
    You're more likely to have extra stress [and problems] from a "track" car, which Joeys is IIRC.

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  22. #22
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Default

    Well - I got my new speedo cable today and will try to get that in this weekend.

    I looked through the BGB here and the ST-185 specific one available on that Australian guy's site and found the illustration of what should be there for the engine mounting insulators.

    In that pic above - those two rubber washers and that metal "bowtie" looking thing - all of that is about 1/3 of what should be there as insulators for the engine mounting crossmember mounting bolts.

    The parts are:

    52225A CUSHION, CENTER MEMBER MOUNTING, FRONT UPPER
    52225-20050 ST185 1 $31.00
    52230A CUSHION ASSY, CENTER MEMBER MOUNTING, REAR UPPER
    52230-20060 ST185 1 $38.31
    52236 CUSHION, CENTER MEMBER MOUNTING, REAR LOWER
    52236-20050 ST185 2 $11.78
    52240 CUSHION ASSY, CENTER MEMBER MOUNTING, FRONT LOWER
    52240-20050 ST185 2 $38.31

    Note that above both "upper" insulators are Qty. 1 per car while the lowers are Qty. 2.

    So I ordered all these today - to the tune of $120. I should have them by next Friday and will pull this stuff apart again and get it right this time.

    Lesson learned here is to pull it apart FIRST to see what you need and then have everything ready.
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  23. #23
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
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    Default

    So I guess I can close this thread out - sorta.

    The photo above of those rubber insulators and bolts - that is about maybe 1/3rd of what should have been in there - see those two rubber donuts and the sleeve with the bare remnants of rubber? Well that SHOULD have looked like what is seen below:



    The row across the bottom - that is what the mounts for the rear of the engine mounting crossmember SHOULD look like.

    So I had ordered the correct parts and installed them on the rear of the mount this weekend. I did not do the front - though I checked it out in detail by removing my FMIC piping in the way. It didn't look too bad - though the insulators have weird bolts in them that are all wrong.

    Here is the front mount of the engine crossmember to the body:



    So - that ain;t right - the bolts should be going UP into the frame - not coming down. While the insulators for he crossmember are not dilapidated like they were for the rear - they are def dry-rotted, so I will replace the, too, as I have already bought the parts.

    For both the front and the rear crosmember mounts - the bolts are old - and stripped out. On the rear I had to use some other bolts I had of lower strength - as the proper bolts were all rounded threads and even cleaning them with a die - there just isn't enough thread left to do the job. I don't like the stock Toyota bolts - with the "captive" washers. I used some bolts I had in my "tackle box" with new lock washers and hardened flat washers for temporary purposes - but I will buy new ones of the correct material from McMaster-Carr - and I don't want "captive" washers. I myself feel that a split lockwasher is good for 5 uses - MAX. I want a bolt that I can renew the lock washer.

    I am equally worried about the captive nuts up in the body that these bolt into - if the bolts were stripped - these nuts must be "suspect" as well - though the new bolts held the factory 38 lb./ft. torque.

    All in all - it WAS worth it to some extent - though I bought more parts than I HAD to. IF I had simply seen the rear mount rubber to start with - I would have thought it was fine and maybe have not gone through this exercise. In fact the rear mount was the WRONG mount - it only had one out of two bolts connecting it to the crossmember - and this bolt was too long causing the bolt hole in the mount to be stripped due to over tightening.

    My end result is that now - I still have some vibrations - but now they always sees to come from the same place - the exhaust - instead of seeming to randomly come from every place under my car. The thing is MUCH quieter for my normal sedate drive to work. if I take it up over 5K RPM - it still ROARS - but just from one place - so now I know where to go next.

    Of course in all this process I did also find that my fuel filter is hanging by the fuel lines and the charcoal canister is hanging by the vacuum and vapor lines - but that is the subject of another thread.
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

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