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  1. #1
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Doowstados will become famous soon enough Doowstados will become famous soon enough

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    Default How to retrofit our AC system?

    Anyone have any information on this? I don't want to continue running R12 refrigerant because it isn't self serviceable where I live. (Not sure if it is in other states either.) I'm looking to switch to R134a.
    - Dustin J.

    1991 Toyota Celica GT

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  2. #2
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice

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    It's not self serviceable anywhere... R-12 is highly regulated now, and is "no longer produced"

    The reality is that if your system still is working, that it's cheapest just to keep running R12, not to just switch because you can...

    If your system has a leak in it, you can repair the leaks, purge the system with nitrogen, vacuum the system and replace it with Freeze-12 (a pretty poor alternative).

    Or to convert to R-134a (the gas that's currently the standard), you need to flush the entire system of all gas, lubricant, and change the O-rings seals. Then purge the entire system with Nitrogen, Vacuum the system down, add R134a compatible oil, the fill the system with R-134a. It's an expensive proposition to do right, and the system will not blow as cold as on R-12, and your high side pressure will be much higher...

    all the "do it yourself conversion kits" are very popular with mechanics.... as 95% of them are done improperly and the mechanic now gets to replace every part in the system. As opposed to fixing a leak, then doing a flush and fill if you had stuck with R-12 :-).

    yeah, stick with R-12 if you can.

  3. #3
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Doowstados will become famous soon enough Doowstados will become famous soon enough

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    Quote Originally Posted by temperacerguy View Post
    It's not self serviceable anywhere... R-12 is highly regulated now, and is "no longer produced"

    The reality is that if your system still is working, that it's cheapest just to keep running R12, not to just switch because you can...

    If your system has a leak in it, you can repair the leaks, purge the system with nitrogen, vacuum the system and replace it with Freeze-12 (a pretty poor alternative).

    Or to convert to R-134a (the gas that's currently the standard), you need to flush the entire system of all gas, lubricant, and change the O-rings seals. Then purge the entire system with Nitrogen, Vacuum the system down, add R134a compatible oil, the fill the system with R-134a. It's an expensive proposition to do right, and the system will not blow as cold as on R-12, and your high side pressure will be much higher...

    all the "do it yourself conversion kits" are very popular with mechanics.... as 95% of them are done improperly and the mechanic now gets to replace every part in the system. As opposed to fixing a leak, then doing a flush and fill if you had stuck with R-12 :-).

    yeah, stick with R-12 if you can.
    Will do, guess I'll be paying someone to fill me up then

    Thanks for the advice man!
    - Dustin J.

    1991 Toyota Celica GT

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  4. #4
    Murg's Heathen's Pet Snitch Monkey CollapsedNut is a splendid one to behold CollapsedNut is a splendid one to behold CollapsedNut is a splendid one to behold CollapsedNut is a splendid one to behold CollapsedNut is a splendid one to behold CollapsedNut is a splendid one to behold CollapsedNut is a splendid one to behold CollapsedNut's Avatar
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    Biggest thing is having the stuff. Most people don't just have a vaccume pump and the fittings to connect to ac systems laying around.
    Last edited by CollapsedNut; 07-27-2011 at 01:05 PM.

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    Originally Posted by manda
    what do I know? I'm just a woman on a car forum..
    guess I better get back to makin your sammich
    Cheese! Cheese for everyone! Wait..no. No cheese for you!

    89 Celica GT
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    07 4Runner SR5

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by temperacerguy View Post
    and your high side pressure will be much higher...
    Im a shade tree AC fixer and I've all ways wondered this. Why?

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    Originally Posted by manda
    what do I know? I'm just a woman on a car forum..
    guess I better get back to makin your sammich
    Cheese! Cheese for everyone! Wait..no. No cheese for you!

    89 Celica GT
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  6. #6
    Junior Member boo_guy is on a distinguished road

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    Default

    There are cans of real r12 being sold all over ebay motors, if you dont mind... ahem, slightly bending a few rules you can buy yourself some.

    From one such auction;
    "If the purchase is for "resale only" to a EPA Certified Technician, you can send us an email indicating the purchase is for "RESALE ONLY TO AN EPA CERTIFIED TECHNICIAN"."

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/MOPAR...item5d254233a1

  7. #7
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice temperacerguy is just really nice

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    I have to tell you that the Ebay R12 scares me a bit... You have no recourse. once you puncture the can you can't prove that it wasn't R-12 in there. That being said, I will be purchasing it, myself as I have the EPA certification to do AC work (yet not the proper equipment.... I have the typical vacuum pump/manifolds, and the price can't be beat.

    As for the higher high side pressure, it's because the condensers designed for R-12 are smaller and less efficient than R134a condensers.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by temperacerguy View Post
    As for the higher high side pressure, it's because the condensers designed for R-12 are smaller and less efficient than R134a condensers.
    It's also a big part of the properties of R-134a vs. R-12. R-12 is far more efficient and doesn't develop the system pressure compared to R-134a. Condensers & evaporators have to be larger on R-134a systems in order to obtain close to the same heat exchange capability. R-134a used directly in a system designed for R-12 will never be truly as efficient (many people say they get cold air, and they will, but physics will always say R-134a retrofitted systems are not as efficient as original R-12 systems. Can't change the properties of the refrigerants.

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