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  1. #1

    Default How much boost can a stock celica take?

    Does anyone know how much boost a stock celica altrac/gt four st185 can handle before the head gasket blows or the fuel system cant keep up?
    I'm running a stock Celica carlos sainz with a 3 inch downpipe (will replace it with a 2,5" just havnet got around to fiting it yet and with a electronic boost controller. at the moment I'm running at 1,1kg/15.95psi any higher and i get the fuel cut.

    I bought a fuel cut defender that I will instal soon, I will also instal a wideband lambda so I know if I start to run lean.

    But anyway what boost is considered to be safe in a st185?
    Last edited by fdfx3; 02-17-2011 at 02:55 AM.

  2. #2
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    On the stock turbo it generally isn't the head gasket or fuel that are the problem. It is usually heat and resulting detonation. I would recommend usually no more than 15psi if things are operating perfectly and the engine responds well to the change. More is achievable, just depends on your risk tolerance and willingness to accept it if things go boom.
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  3. #3

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    okay thanks, but lets say if I would replace the turbo with a gt28rs or a 2871 would the turbo be able to deliver the same amount of pressure with less heated chargeair?

    I'm not going to increase the boostpressure much I will only get rid of the fuel cut so I wont keep getting fuel cut in high gears like 4th and 5th or having to adjust my boost controller when the wheater changes.

  4. #4

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    I wouldn't boost past 14psi...your just pushing your luck and going to ruin a perfectly good CS GT4. If you want to build it up then do it right! The turbo of your choice, supporting fuel system and most important of all some way to get a good tune on her

  5. #5
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    Well GT28rs is a different beast, then yes fuel and HG might become issues. GT28RS is a good 300whp turbo. Your fuel injectors max at 275. So you'd need to carefully verify with a wideband where you are. Of course depending on your goals, there might be other things that would be good to do first.
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  6. #6

    Default

    Well I have now runned 15.95PSI for half a year now without any problems, and acording to a g-tech my engine is making 201whp and 290nm/213ft-lbs. I'm guessing 230-240hp at flywheel.

    I will try my best not to ruin it, as I said earlier I will only get rid of the fuel cut because sometimes when I change in to high gears my boost just barely jumps past the 15,95 limit wich activates the fuelcut, or if the weather changes I might have to adjust the boost controller.
    of course I could allways turn my boost down a little but I do have a friend that got an Audi s2 and i cannot let him beat me at trackdays.

    I'm not going to increase my boost any further, Not after what ChrisD told me earlier in mind.

    I am saving up for an engine build wich is going kinda slow, especialy after I lost my job.
    but since I'm not using my Celica in the winter season, I will have plenty of time to build an engine then.

    But a little of topic, what is your oppinion on this: gt28rs or a 2871? with driveability and a nice power curve in mind? on a vehicle that is used on a daily basis not as a race car.

  7. #7
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    My opinion is that the 28rs is a great turbo, however I don't personally think it is worth the $$. If I were spending the money on a GT turbo, I would go a step higher into the gt30 range. However, it is well known for it's great torque, quick spool, and very good performance on road course racing.

    The 2871 I know less about, but it looks like may provide a little more up top but probably not substantial. I'd have to take a closer look at the compressor maps to have a better educated opinion.
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  8. #8

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    Mhm, I know that the hp to $ ratio is low on a 28rs, I forgot to mentioned as my target is to get somewhere between 300-350whp I'm thinking that the 28rs or 2871 is the way to go, I am open for other sugestions as well.

    And I've been told that 3sgte blocks starts to crack when you exceed 400-450hp is this true?

    I thought the gt30 series was associated with relatively much turbolag.
    I found this one a st185 running a gt3071 it dosen't look too bad actualy:w ww.youtube.com/watch?v=wOjuNf7L9WE&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

  9. #9
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    I would go with the 3071 if you were sticking in the Garrett line up. It will be much easier to hit your goal. Most people usually end up in the 325-375whp range on that turbo. mr2oc.com has a lot of people running it too.

    I'm not sure there is a "number" where the 3sgte block will crack, but at higher HP levels people tend to switch over to a 5S block or use a newer gen 3S block. Generally speaking I think the 3sgte block is fine to 500whp, but it really depends on the tune and some luck... For me if I were under 400WHP I wouldn't worry about it, but if I planned to get closer to the 500WHP mark I would probably look to a 5S block for added sense of security. Plus you could utilize the 2.2L platform.
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  10. #10
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    I would go with the 3071 if you were sticking in the Garrett line up. It will be much easier to hit your goal. Most people usually end up in the 325-375whp range on that turbo. mr2oc.com has a lot of people running it too.

    I'm not sure there is a "number" where the 3sgte block will crack, but at higher HP levels people tend to switch over to a 5S block or use a newer gen 3S block. Generally speaking I think the 3sgte block is fine to 500whp, but it really depends on the tune and some luck... For me if I were under 400WHP I wouldn't worry about it, but if I planned to get closer to the 500WHP mark I would probably look to a 5S block for added sense of security. Plus you could utilize the 2.2L platform.
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  11. #11

    Default

    Wil a 2 gen. or a 3gen. head fit directly to a 5s block without any modifications? what about the timing belt?

    So people who's making a lot of horsepower are using the engine block from one of theese http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/JDM-5...Q5fAccessories
    am I right?

    Also i found this kit wich will make it a lot easier to fit a 3071: http://www.koracing.net/viewproduct....11&product=222

    But with a gt3071 I think it will be difficult to make it look stock, the problem about tuning a car here in Norway is that if you get caught they will charge you with at least 370 US dollars for each HP over stock. and they take your licence plate.

    I like this turbo kit: http://www.speed-source.net/products/GT28RS.htm because it looks close to stock and you can even fit your exhaust shield.

  12. #12
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    Yes any 3S head will fit on a 5S block, however the coolant passages need to be modified slightly so that they line up. Easy fix.

    The "best" 5SFE blocks are 98 and newer, generally. There are some earlier engines that do have the added strength, but only way to know for sure is to see it.

    KO Racing has kits, as does http://atsracing.net as does Berk Technology. Speed Source definitely has a nice GT28 kit.

    If you need something that looks very close to stock, I'd probably recommend the EMS Powered S252 kit, which also allows you to use the stock heat shield and will make your target of 350whp. http://www.emspowered.com/storefront...roducts_id=325
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  13. #13

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    Modifying the coolant passages does that require welding?
    I'm starting to like the idea of having a 5s block the increased displacement will probably help to improve the bower band/ curve, besides more fuel and air means more power and not to mention torque.
    the ats kit seems interesting, but a litle complicated with the exchange system.

    What injector size will be needed to run 300-350whp? 600cc?

  14. #14
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    No welding, just grinding out with a dremel or something similar to get the passages aligned with the head.

    No exchange with the ats turbo kits: http://atsracing.net/Parts.mvc/Index/GTSERIES You may have looked at their full ECU/tune kits which are a bit different. But still for a stock looking turbo, the EMS Powered kits are very good.

    540cc/min injectors will do the job, Supra MK4 TT injectors are direct fit, as are gen 3 3sgte's. For future growth 850's are good for 450whp or so. Also don't forget the pump, rail, regulator.
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