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  1. #1

    Default Time to rebuild an All-trac

    So I just picked myself up a '91 AT that is in some pretty sorry shape, but for $650 I couldn't pass it. My only real inquiry into it was 'rust' and 'engine', everything else I have spare parts for from my "late" '93 AT from Italy. from what the guy told me, and the little I could see (it was dark and raining pretty good today), the body is fine other than a previous owner painted it white (used to be red) but didnt get the door jams and other little things. The engine is a completely different story. Apparently at one point it blew the head gasket and was never fixed, so it sat for a good long time and the cylinders got rusty among other things and it's now in many pieces. From what he told me though the trannys (I'm getting 2 in the deal) are in great shape.

    Now here's where the fun begins; the engine issue is also a great opportunity. Instead of rebuilding the old motor and dumping a couple grand into resoration, I was thinking, "Why not just drop in a 3S from a 205? they can be had on eBay for about the same amount." I haven't really read-up too much on this kind of swap but I've heard it's worth it, especially if I go with a RC conversion. What kind of issues should I look for if I go with the 205 swap? Anything I should be looking for in general as far as problems with the car sitting for so long (other than pests)?

    Hopefully I'll be picking it up next friday, so I'll post some pics then.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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    1990 Toyota Celica GT-S
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  2. #2

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    Check the underbody for rust. Pull those plastic covers that go over fuel and brake lines. They're great for catching crap and causing rust. Check the quarters and rockers under the rear plastic trim to make sure they're good. If the body is good, you got a hell of a deal.

    As for the 205 swap, if you've got the time and the money, it's the way to go. CMS-GT4, among others, did this swap to his 185. I don't know if he's got a write up on Ctech or not but he's got swap thread over at AT.net that covers what he went through. The mechanical part of the swap isn't really any worse, from what I understand, than any other engine swap. You have to do some wiring for it but that shouldn't be horrible. Josh covered a lot of it in his swap thread and I think there is info here as well.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  3. #3

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    I'll be sure to check once I get it home, the guy wants it out of his driveway as soon as possible (too many projects, not enough space). I plan on tearing the whole thing down anyway to finish the white paintjob.

    I looked on eBay (searched; celica st205 motor) and got quite a few ranging from about $1,600 to 3K, including some 3SGE ones. As long as the mechainical part is straight-forward (i.e. no welding or fabrication) I shouldn't have a problem, I can do basic wrenching and wiring I just don't have the tools for much else. I'll have to look up CMS's thread, I didn't see it when I used search (might be in limbo from the site update).
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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  4. #4

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    I'm not sure if he has it posted up here. I need to find it and get in the "Useful Information" section. As far as the actual swap, it's a straight bolt in. If I remember correctly, if the car has an aftermarket downpipe now, you'll need a different one due to the CT20B instead of the regular CT26. I think that's right.

    I know what you mean about the prices. They kind of run the gamut on the 205 set up. Be sure the ones you're looking at come with the harness uncut, the ECU and the igniter. The igniter is different from the 165/185 igniter but I think I read where you can use the 5SF ignitor. Double check that though.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  5. #5

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    Here's a link to his project thread at AT.net. I'm pretty sure the swap info is in this thread.

    http://alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=44&t=19891
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  6. #6
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco UtahSleeper is on a distinguished road UtahSleeper's Avatar

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    Default

    Good score as long as the rust isn't an issue. What do you want to do with the car is my question. Is it just a toy? If so then I would do the 205. If it's a possibly DD then just restore and do bolt ons every now and then, IMO.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

  7. #7

    Default

    The plan is to drop in a new motor and have something reliable and fun while I sort out my GT-S. I figure the new motor is the way to go since rebuilding the old one would be just as costly, if not more-so. Eventually I'd like to so straight-up RC and maybe do the WRC decals since it's white, lol.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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    1990 Toyota Celica GT-S
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  8. #8
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Mafix is a glorious beacon of light Mafix is a glorious beacon of light Mafix is a glorious beacon of light Mafix is a glorious beacon of light Mafix is a glorious beacon of light Mafix's Avatar
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    Default

    just an FYI, RC and 205 are very different.

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    371whp, 355 ft/lbs w/ 46mm pre-turbo restrictor.
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  9. #9

    Default

    I know 205 is the 6th gen celica (3rd gen 3s), does the RC have a different engine set-up other than the gen revision?

    Either way, what I meant was going with the RC/CS hood and bumper, maybe the badging and some of the other little things over the usdm all-trac parts.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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  10. #10

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    The RC set up is basically the second gen 3SGTE with a WTA intercooler, similar to the 205. It uses a different ECU and AFM than the standard 2nd gen and makes more power, although not as much as the 205. This would be an easier swap since it wouldn't require nearly as much wiring.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  11. #11

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    Physlis, if your talking about the 3rd gen your thinking of the wrc engine. That is the very rare one that has the plumbing for the anti-lag and the turbo has a steel wheel (or something) instead of the ceramic and I think a diffrent throttle body. I'm going to do the same thing your going to do. I'm buying my gen3 swap in march. Nothing is wrong with my gen2, I just want to upgrade. I already have the gen3 efi on my car and have a gen3 engine top half along with a st205 trans and hks cams I wanted to install but it would seem smarter to just sell my parts and get the real thing.

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    1991 all-trac w/ gen3 swap, 14 avalon, 08 sequoia 5.7L , 1969 mustang build in progress and a 87 toyota longbed 5 spd


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    Originally Posted by The Captain
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    I own the car because I didn't want to be like everybody else.

  12. #12

    Default

    Yea I plan on doing the Gen 3, I read it's relatively simple.

    Got it home today just before I had to go to work (working x-mas eve and x-mas day) but I couldn't help but notice in my rush to leave it has a sunroof and the System 10 system. Once I get home and have a chance to clean it out I'll upload pics. I'm really curious to see what other options in this little deal of a car.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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  13. #13

    Default

    Well here are the promised pics, looks like I won't be rebuilding the motor as it's been completely torn-down and is missing some pieces.













    The Rust:


    That's it, not much more damage than that.


    Now for the interior:





    The parts:
    I pulled all of this out of the trunk, pretty much all engine parts.






    All in the garage:
    All those parts in some boxes


    Engine minus pistons/rods:


    Transmission:


    I'll post more once I get it all cleaned up. Most likely I'm going to clean all the parts and sell what I can to fund the swap. I'll let you guys know if/when I start a garage clean-out.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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  14. #14

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    Damn

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    1991 all-trac w/ gen3 swap, 14 avalon, 08 sequoia 5.7L , 1969 mustang build in progress and a 87 toyota longbed 5 spd


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    I own the car because I didn't want to be like everybody else.

  15. #15
    CelicaTech Supporter rizin is on a distinguished road
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    Default

    Hey those yellow things look nice holding that head and the bloch and head but what is going to be rolling away soon? For 650 you didn't go wrong on that buy.

  16. #16

    Default

    Yep, $650 was a steal for this thing. Hopefully I can clean up a lot of those engine bits and see what I can move, I wouldn't know where to start on rebuilding it.

    Oh and those yellow things are plastic/rubber aircraft wheel chocks I picked up from work since we can only use wood ones. Definitely handy when dealing with smooth-surface parts like engine blocks.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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  17. #17
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Eric Barrera is on a distinguished road

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    Who's teggy?

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    Originally Posted by Mafix
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    2 step that bitch when he walks around back!

  18. #18

    Default

    The spoiler ends were leaking and they leak right into a metal pit inside the trunk which needed fixed as well as this fender with sheet metal. It's best to cut it out because it won't go away otherwise, then sheet metal it, then bondo and paint. I was proud of the cut back relief cut work to make the curve. This was a big job from sealing the spoiler ends, to repairing the inside trunk and exterior sheet metal. Never did get finished.

    Good luck with your project. I would have bought it for $650.




    91 Celica GT Coupe
    Knowledge builds confidence.
    Money, time and effort gets it done.
    Experience gets it done better and faster.

  19. #19

    Default

    Good score bro! The rust does'nt seem that bad at all. You mentioned that you have two transmisions. I was wondering if you had two top transmision mount brackets and if so, would you sell me one? I'm in desperate need of on to finsih my 90 All-Trac GT3040 prodject. Let mcte know.

    Thanks and GL on your project!

  20. #20

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    Nice score! You certianly didn't get hurt for $650. It looks pretty solid.
    Mike
    92 All Trac-Daily Driver


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  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by 90all-trac View Post
    Good score bro! The rust does'nt seem that bad at all. You mentioned that you have two transmisions. I was wondering if you had two top transmision mount brackets and if so, would you sell me one? I'm in desperate need of on to finsih my 90 All-Trac GT3040 prodject. Let mcte know.

    Thanks and GL on your project!
    I ended up not getting the second trans in the deal, don't know if he sold it or misspoke (it's missing a few parts too like pistons/rods). The times I went down to look/pick it up he seemed pressed for time and is trying to move a few cars to clean up his driveway.

    I'm not entirely sure what that part looks like, but if I have an extra in the pile I'll gladly send it. If you could get a pic of it let me know.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Barrera View Post
    Who's teggy?
    That one is mine as well, ITR #00-0091, but it's a gift for a friend and hopefully won't be in my posession much longer.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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  22. #22
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Eric Barrera is on a distinguished road

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    That teggy is gorges i have always been a sucker for those lol

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    Originally Posted by Mafix
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    2 step that bitch when he walks around back!

  23. #23

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    I have stock pistons and rods for sale if you are interested, they were pulled from my running 90 All-Trac that had 160 compresion across.

  24. #24

    Default

    I think I'll start piecing the motor together since I have nothing better to do, if I find the pistons are all I'm missing I'll consider it. As of right now though getting this motor running is at the bottom of my list.

    The interior is my first priority on this one. The car literally stinks inside, I'm really hoping for a nice day that I can pull everything, vacuum, and let it air out.
    There will come a day when you stop questioning my obsession with my car, swords and guns. Everyday after that you will be thankful the zombies didn't get your brain.


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  25. #25
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco UtahSleeper is on a distinguished road UtahSleeper's Avatar

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    Not a bad score.

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    * 1980 Corolla Hatchback (Power project) * 1988 Celica Alltrac (Snow fun project)

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