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  1. #1

    Default Exhaust manifolds?

    We are working on a few new 3sgte exhaust manifolds for some custom builds currently. While we're at it we may make a couple of "production" designs to sell to the public as a regularly offered EMSPowered item. What types and layouts of exhaust manifolds would you guys be interested in? Is low cost more important for you or the best design/performance? What sort of budget would you want to stay within for a nice custom manifold that is designed and built properly?

    Just trying to gauge interest within the Celica community on this.

  2. #2
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    Personally, I would like a cast manifold with a T25 flange.

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    Some of the aftermarket exhaust manifolds that I have seen do not fit under the CS Hood. I have seen people have to cut a big hole in the hood in front of the vent. I would like to see some options here as long as they fit under the CS Hood.

    Cost wise...probably on the low end...maybe $250 max. more than that and I would rather spend the money on something else for the car. That is just me though

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  4. #4

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    Jesus, $250 max? Good materials alone would that or more. DIY territory might meet that kind of budget if you do the measuring, cutting, and welding yourself. I would say $500-700 would be about average in pricing depending on design, materials and dealing with any transversely swapped 3S community (read: content with adapters, read: cheap)

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    I think this would be awesome. The more people building these the better.

    There are a few things I would look for:

    -Adequate fit under a Celica hood
    -T3 flange might be most appropriate (although some may look for the CT26/20b flange since there are many more of those out there, and we *could* still use an adapter I guess)
    -Put some math behind it, calculate the proper runner diameters and lengths. Also, dyno test for performance gains!
    -Possibly, build manifolds optimized for specific target HP ranges...eg 250-300whp, 300-450whp, 450whp+ and base it off certain turbo's from your line-up...

    For cost, well these can be expensive, but if you could approach $500 that would probably put you at a good market advantage and also make them affordable enough for most people.
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  6. #6

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    I'd spend 500 on a quality built one. It was a costly trip to the shop to get mine All rewelded and planed flat due to cheap stainless manifolds.

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  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sang View Post
    Jesus, $250 max? Good materials alone would that or more. DIY territory might meet that kind of budget if you do the measuring, cutting, and welding yourself. I would say $500-700 would be about average in pricing depending on design, materials and dealing with any transversely swapped 3S community (read: content with adapters, read: cheap)
    You asked....well you didn't but the question was asked

    ...and it is why I still have the stock 3SGTE exhaust manifold. I , personally just don't see the benefit of the $ invested when there are so many other things on the car that need funds. I am not an all out kind of guy regarding the 3SGTE though....some mods are worth it to me and some are not. But I am just one guy, so it is really just my own $.02

    This part is only partially serious but what kind of good materials are you using if you can't find 10 feet of pipe and 2 plates for $250 or more, I can almost buy titanium for that much when it comes to raw materials.

    ~Chris
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  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by temperacerguy View Post
    Personally, I would like a cast manifold with a T25 flange.
    That won't happen from us. T25 is just too small to make any good power, you may as well stick with the stock turbos.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina91GT-S View Post
    Some of the aftermarket exhaust manifolds that I have seen do not fit under the CS Hood. I have seen people have to cut a big hole in the hood in front of the vent. I would like to see some options here as long as they fit under the CS Hood.

    Cost wise...probably on the low end...maybe $250 max. more than that and I would rather spend the money on something else for the car. That is just me though
    We may be able to get a simple GOOD manifold to you guys for under $500. But as Sang mentioned $250 will barely cover cost of proper materials.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    I think this would be awesome. The more people building these the better.

    There are a few things I would look for:

    -Adequate fit under a Celica hood
    -T3 flange might be most appropriate (although some may look for the CT26/20b flange since there are many more of those out there, and we *could* still use an adapter I guess)
    -Put some math behind it, calculate the proper runner diameters and lengths. Also, dyno test for performance gains!
    -Possibly, build manifolds optimized for specific target HP ranges...eg 250-300whp, 300-450whp, 450whp+ and base it off certain turbo's from your line-up...

    For cost, well these can be expensive, but if you could approach $500 that would probably put you at a good market advantage and also make them affordable enough for most people.
    We will be working on 2-3 differnet types of manifolds for various budgets and power levels. As far as the flanges, the manifolds will be built to order so we could put any flange on them that the customer wants. If there is enough interest for a CT26/20b flanged manifold that puts the turbo in the stock location we could do that as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Carolina91GT-S View Post
    You asked....well you didn't but the question was asked

    ...and it is why I still have the stock 3SGTE exhaust manifold. I , personally just don't see the benefit of the $ invested when there are so many other things on the car that need funds. I am not an all out kind of guy regarding the 3SGTE though....some mods are worth it to me and some are not. But I am just one guy, so it is really just my own $.02

    This part is only partially serious but what kind of good materials are you using if you can't find 10 feet of pipe and 2 plates for $250 or more, I can almost buy titanium for that much when it comes to raw materials.

    ~Chris
    US made 1/2" thick flanges, US made 321SS schedule 40 weld L's, backpurged welds, 308L .035 filler rod, Argon for the welding and purge. You should do the math. There's a lot of money in just materials alone. We don't get this sort of stuff done in china with junk metal like other vendors. As far as why you should upgrade, for each person it's different. Some people build non-turbo "showcars", some people build fast cars, some people just daily drive them and change the oil. The decision of what to modify is different for every person.

  9. #9
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    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CELIC...Q5fAccessories

    $200 shipped cast T3 flanged manifold with nice smooth transitions. This is your competition, so why spend 2.5x more?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by temperacerguy View Post
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/CELIC...Q5fAccessories

    $200 shipped cast T3 flanged manifold with nice smooth transitions. This is your competition, so why spend 2.5x more?
    If that cheap chinese garbage was my competition I'd be out of business. There's a reason nobody buys those. Theyr'e terrible castings, pinholes everywhere. The wastegate port is unusable. And the list goes on. If you're looking at something like that I'd recommend you keep your stock manifold, it will perform the same and cause you much less headache. Even if you do go with a manifold like that you will not see any sort of performance gains.

    To give you an example, here is one of the manifolds we have made for a few years. That chinese junk isn't even in the same league or anywhere close to what we consider quality work:





  11. #11
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    ^^LOL, no kidding.

    Very nice work! If you guys look at "the competition", check out companies like full-race. $1200 for their ram-horn design.

    So do you have confirmed fitment on a Celica?
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  12. #12
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    I would like a top mount, T3 flange!

    I think $700 would be a good deal.

    ATS Tubular manifold is $429, similar to stock design. The KO Racing ram horn style is $1000. And the Full-Race ram horn manifold is $1275, with robotic TIG welds....
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  13. #13

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    ChrisD, our current manifold (the one pictured) does fit with both the celica and MR2. Any future manifolds we make will be made to fit with both the MR2 & celica as well.

    vip09. T3 flange will be what we go with as the default option, so that's no problem at all. The ATS manifold in my opinion is a bare minimum. But it is not a great design. It's a nice cheap upgrade from the stock manifold. It's not anywhere near equal length, I highly doubt they're using schedule 40 piping (they're probably using thin schedule 10), and it puts the turbo back in the stock locaiton which is a big part of the problem with the stock manifold. The 2 new manifolds we're looking at making will put the turbo in a more ideal location so that you can use a larger variety of turbos, have better downpipe routing, and be able to make a manifold with equal length runners for the best performance possible.

  14. #14
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    Very cool! Will stay tuned to what you guys develop!

    One other thing that I would look for. For us Celica people, we commonly clock our turbo's downward. Often I see the WG screamer pipes routed right in the way of where our IC piping needs to go (in the space between the DP, radiator, and engine mount). If that could be put into consideration, that would be helpful...otherwise I do worry that I would have to re-fab that piece.
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  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisD View Post
    Very cool! Will stay tuned to what you guys develop!

    One other thing that I would look for. For us Celica people, we commonly clock our turbo's downward. Often I see the WG screamer pipes routed right in the way of where our IC piping needs to go (in the space between the DP, radiator, and engine mount). If that could be put into consideration, that would be helpful...otherwise I do worry that I would have to re-fab that piece.
    Our current bolt-on turbo kit (bolts to the stock manifold), and our full premium kit (the one pictured above with the manifold) both alow plenty of room to clock the turbo in any direction. We'll make sure the new manifolds we're working on do as well.

    Pics of our current bolt-on kit:




  16. #16
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    God those ram horn manifolds are sexy...


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  17. #17
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    love me some borg warner turbos!
    the ram horn looks great and even if it was 1000 i'd buy one but...
    for advise to you bak, i'd be sure and have the ability to make the flanges different with ease, and in true twin scroll and open flanges. the same for the wastegates (38mm, mvs, 50mm). hopefully that would make life easier to suit to a customers needs. and it would make it easier to sell more of those beauties. and for the odd person like myself, absolute true twin scroll (twin wastegates) for the retarded huge turbos.

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  18. #18
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    and uh, how much for the t3 twin scroll?

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  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafix View Post
    love me some borg warner turbos!
    the ram horn looks great and even if it was 1000 i'd buy one but...
    for advise to you bak, i'd be sure and have the ability to make the flanges different with ease, and in true twin scroll and open flanges. the same for the wastegates (38mm, mvs, 50mm). hopefully that would make life easier to suit to a customers needs. and it would make it easier to sell more of those beauties. and for the odd person like myself, absolute true twin scroll (twin wastegates) for the retarded huge turbos.
    We can do any of those on that ramhorn manifold. It was laid out on the jig to where we could do various flanges for the turbo & WG, and we can set it up with single or twin WG's, and we can do it with a single entry or twin entry T3 or T4 flange.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mafix View Post
    and uh, how much for the t3 twin scroll?
    The Gen2 3SGTE EMSPowered ramhorn style manifold pictured above sells for $950 and we can set it up with whichever flanges you need. The new Gen3 manifolds we're working on right now haven't had a price set yet. PM me if you're interested in a manifold and we can discuss options and pricing.

  20. #20
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    hmmmm. sounds like music to my ears. now to get you some size restrictions. the s258 with the koyo rad = no room. lol.

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  21. #21
    Senior Member v8killer is on a distinguished road

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    i would def go for a 2 longish runner/2 short runner setup. why lose spool for an extra 5 hp with the "equal length"? and of course t3 flanged and clearance for larger turbo on a gen3 =)

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    Are you serious?

    Jesus, you really should just get a fucking sportscar that was designed to go fast.

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  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mafix View Post
    hmmmm. sounds like music to my ears. now to get you some size restrictions. the s258 with the koyo rad = no room. lol.
    We can fit it... And to be honest, our billet S259 is a much better option than the S258 if you're wanting to stay in the S200 family. It will spool quicker and make more power. If you're serious about a new turbo setup drop me a PM and we can go over the different turbo options and see what best fits your budget and your desired power goals. We deal with Garrett, Precision, Borg Warner, and can make you a custom kit for anywhere from 300whp to 1000whp.

    Quote Originally Posted by v8killer View Post
    i would def go for a 2 longish runner/2 short runner setup. why lose spool for an extra 5 hp with the "equal length"? and of course t3 flanged and clearance for larger turbo on a gen3 =)
    Actually, properly designed equal length runners will net more power and better spool.

  23. #23
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    yes the 259 is better, it is also the replacement for my 3 year old turbo. but my pockets are not that deep lol. thanks for the suggestion though.

    vip09, i looked at that koracing manifold. needless to say i'm not impressed at all. 304 stainless = won't last. appears to be mig welded not tig welded = won't last long. and the price is outrageous for what you are getting. oh and add 600 bucks to get the welds cleaned up and the manifold polished. personally it sounds like they don't want to make any of them.

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  24. #24
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    just so you know, i've researched your design, talked with my sponsors as well. this is the bees knees. tax returns and the wifes permission and i'll be right on this.

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  25. #25

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    That is a decent looking manifold all though it has a few things that could be optimized. Runners 1,4 are longer than 2,3. The cylinder runners should converge just before the turbo inlet flange. The waste gate if using one should be separated right up to the piston of the waste gate or use two waste gates. sch 40 pipe although used by many builds is to thick and will loose more heat than a 16 gauge 321 stainless tubing. Also you need runners with a minimum length of 15" with an optimum length of between 23"-25" depending on turbo and engine specs. So if you want to build a twin scroll manifold that will optimize the turbo and engine that you spent hard earned money on then you need to spend money on the manifold as well. A 16 gauge 1.75" 23-25" length runner manifold with double slip collector like pictured below. Twin waste gates or a larger single with the 2 feeds separated right to the waste gate piston. And equal length runners. I understand not everyone can afford to pay for a manifold like that. I hope that baktasht doesn't take this as a cut down because what he is offering is decent especially for the price he is charging.


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