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  1. #51
    CelicaTech Supporter rizin is on a distinguished road
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    Hey you might want to talk MrTurrari about this and who ever has knowledge on this. If you are looking to raise the compression you might want to shave the head. MrTurrari talked how he could do this on his 5sfe build. Might be something you could look into. Just suggesting this as a option to help with compression with out major cost.

  2. #52
    Mustang Crew Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of
    Grot has been to an annual Dragon Meet! Grot has donated to the forums! Grot helped Azzy get to The Dragon in 2009. Grot helped bring Chaos back to the Dragon

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    if your looking for higher compression then Dome top pistons are what your after

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    Originally Posted by Murgatroy
    And I had a mullet to prove it.

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    Ive decided youre gay.

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  3. #53
    CelicaTech Supporter rizin is on a distinguished road
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    Ya domed pistons would be great but since he might want to change the head gasket he could shave the head down to bring up the compression a little. Kill two birds with one stone. It would be cheaper to get the head shaved now. Then get pistons later to bring the compression up even more later on.

  4. #54

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    ive been thinking bout doing this build for a long time... problem is theres tons of info on it but its little bits here and there...

    props on the article its helped fill in some of the blanks...

    but i got a few questions for ya....

    1.) you said direct bolt on.... well i scored a 96 5s for 40 bucks with a blown head gasket right? well the gaskets not in bad shape at all and i was comparing it to the 89 3s head i have... and well the water jackets dont quite line up... im sure you could get away with it but to be on the safe side....

    ive got pics of the 5s gasket on the 3s head... might make things a little more clear.... the highlighted area in blue is what im talkin about machining...

    2.) how are the rods holding up? from what ive heard machining the crank and stock 3s rods are the way to go as the 5s rods are the motors major malfunction... tore that 5s apart to get the crank machined for the 3s rods and ive got pics showing just how small they are...

    3.) howd you manage to get any power out of the 5sge with the 5sfe ecu? doesnt that retain the stock redline of 6300 and thats only the beginning of the 3sge's power range... and i think i heard that tvis stock opens up around 4200...

    4.) howd you regulate the tvis to open since ive heard the 5s ecu has no way to actuate it?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 418.jpg‎  
    Last edited by chris_trevisiol; 10-29-2009 at 04:54 AM.

  5. #55
    CelicaTech Supporter rizin is on a distinguished road
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    The other 5sge thread on here talks about machining that area of the head. Good idea to do. The other way you could go is run a 3sge gasket I think is the same as the 3sgte and drill all the collant passages to match the head gasket. Here is a thread I started I linked pics from vip09 project page showing how he drilled the block for the gte head.

    Running the 3sgte rods is a good idea. I am going the 5sgte route and I am going to run the 3sgte eagle forged rods on my 5s crank.

    If you are wanting to raise the redline read MrTurrari's thread about overclocking his ecu. The only problem he found is by doing that it reatards the timing.

    On the tvis you could try the rpm activation switch. Get one that is programable then you can adjust it to open at the best area for the 5sge build. You can read this from MR Controls. http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm It talks about how to wire up the RPM Switch on a 3sgte.

    The only other thing you might want to look into if you are going 3sgte rods you might want to look into custom pistons to raise the compression.

    Hopefully some of this info helps you out.

  6. #56
    Junior Member bajachris88 is on a distinguished road

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    i had a 1990 5s block, all the galleries matched (position wise)...

    EXCEPT, although the water galleries were in the same position, the 3sge head gasket it a little more open then the 5sfe. Although the water will still flow there will be losses compared to machining it as a smooth transition.

    This was a tight arse setup. and yes... by still having the 5sfe red line, it does restrict power... but at teh same time makes sure that you still can drive home in one piece with the 5sfe bottom end and rods. efi management wise a $150 DAF controller was fitted. TVIS is controlled by a $35 jay car frequency switch kit. Its all there in the rest of this thread.

    Overall it is an improvement no doubt compared to the 5sfe for the economically minded.

    The ideal procedure for a n/a 5sge would definitely be aftermarket chrome moly conrods (available for the 5sfe forged crank), hi comp pistons, bigger injectors, mild cams, oil cooler and full engine management system.

    Or you can stick with low comp, slap on a blower and have 200cc's more than the 3sgte boys .

    But i mean... its endless.

    You could probably even convert it to a bloody steam engine if you had the dosh and time.

  7. #57

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    alright thanks that helps to clear up a bit more... wasnt sure what the differences between the ist gen and second gen 5sfe's were...

    so far ive torn the 5s i got apart and rebuilt the 3s head and ported and pollished it... not sure what cams i want run though since im planning on pulling the power band up into the 3s's 9grand range....

    im sending the crank off to get machined to fit the 3sgte rods (eagle) and if im right i think im going to have to be running the 3s bearings too...

    custom pistons are a bit far off but im getting there... plannin on bumpin it back up to around 11.5:1 or maybe 12:1 with fuel managment... oversized injectors the works...

    i was hoping on using the 5s gasket but if nothin else im sure the 3s wouldnt cause problems but with the compression i plan on running i dont really want to take any chances...

    any thoughts on what cams or injectors to use?

  8. #58
    CelicaTech Supporter rizin is on a distinguished road
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    You can run all 3s main and thrust bearings on the bottom end they are all the same size.
    You can get cometic head gaskets (metal) for both engines.

  9. #59

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    cool cool just glad to finally be making some headway on this build...

    only problem so far is the balance shafts they installed on the second gen 5sfe's... since its gear driven off the crank would it be unsafe to just remove the shaft or would using a 90-92 crank solve that problem? or would it be better to keep the balance shaft even though its going to slow down the motor quite a bit since if im trying to aim for a 9 grand redline might be safer to keep it... although i might not reach the rev limit fast enough to make substantial power...

  10. #60

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    Balance shafts can be removed but you need to plug oil galley holes so you still have oil psi. the gear that drives the balance shaft(s) I’m 90% sure can not be removed from the crank
    (note) high rpm has killed more rod bolts then horse power has
    95 camry 2 door
    5sfe (43,764 miles of sexyness) 5 speed
    speed MODS:Short shifter,Sold torque mount,strut bar,Power steering delete,A/c delete,Egr delete,Pcv breather,TB coolant bypass (x2),Stage 3 racing 5 puck clutch,Balancer shafts removed,balancer shaft oil galley plugged,1 off oil tray,NGK Iridium Spark Plugs .055 gap,summit street cd,4age dizzy cap,8mm plug and coil wires,summit cd coil,"cat" high flow 3sgte water pump,low temp thermostat,hyper voltage stabilizer, grounding system,Generic header,2 1/2 pipe header to muf, magnaflow high flow cat,summit turbo muf,vafc,rebuilt head (light p+P and mill .040) and 2 tb intake mani, hood spaced 3/4 inch, 255 lph fuel pump, Px3 thermal insulating Intake manifold Gasket, moog sway bar bushings, none “flamboyant” shift light
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  11. #61

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    from what I hear 3sgte rods are the same length and use the same size wrist pins as the 5s.

    Quote Originally Posted by rizin
    The other 5sge thread on here talks about machining that area of the head. Good idea to do. The other way you could go is run a 3sge gasket I think is the same as the 3sgte and drill all the collant passages to match the head gasket. Here is a thread I started I linked pics from vip09 project page showing how he drilled the block for the gte head.

    Running the 3sgte rods is a good idea. I am going the 5sgte route and I am going to run the 3sgte eagle forged rods on my 5s crank.

    If you are wanting to raise the redline read MrTurrari's thread about overclocking his ecu. The only problem he found is by doing that it reatards the timing.

    On the tvis you could try the rpm activation switch. Get one that is programable then you can adjust it to open at the best area for the 5sge build. You can read this from MR Controls. http://www.mrcontrols.com/primers/power.htm It talks about how to wire up the RPM Switch on a 3sgte.

    The only other thing you might want to look into if you are going 3sgte rods you might want to look into custom pistons to raise the compression.

    Hopefully some of this info helps you out.

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  12. #62

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    alright thanks, im going to leave the balance shafts on for now and if i have issues later ill remove em...

    im pretty sure there werent any major differences in the rods from the different gen 3sgte's but since the block im using is a second gen (1996) would it matter what year rods i buy?

    i was also doing a little bit of math trying to figure out what my cr would be without shaving, decking, or custom pistons, and its garbage... if im right then since the 3s rods are shorter than the 5s rods wouldnt that increase the size of the combustion chamber quite a bit?

  13. #63

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    I am pretty sure the 5s and 3s rods are the same length.

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  14. #64

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    I would love to know if this engine is still running, Still really want to try this build.

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    She won't be going anywhere for a good while.
    But i still love her...

    In the words of Archimedes, "Give me a long enough lever, and a place to rest it, or I will kill a hostage every hour."

  15. #65

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    This is quite tempting..I'm surprised I have never looked in this section of the forum since I've been here.

  16. #66

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    The correct way



    http://www.atsracing.net/Parts.mvc/Index/ATS23STROKER

    3/5S-FE upgrade - Best is to use the 95- inlet/heads/exhaust. These have a better inlet manifolds, better porting, wilder cams, better ports, better combustion chamber, better exhaust, bigger oil pump, 8 bolt cranks etc. The later 5S has gudgeon pin clips which means the pistons can be swapped with others. The balance shaft runs off the centre of the crank so I wouldn't mess with it, if you remove it you will need to block the oil channels and use the early type sump. Rev limit for the FE valvetrain/rods is 7000

    5S-GE upgrade - pic shows GTE pistons but GE pistons are available up to 87,5mm. If you deck the block and skim the head compression will be around 12-1 which is not good unless you have endless race fuel available. You will need a GE head gasket 1.4-2.2mm thick.
    GTE gen1 head has stiffer springs and improved inlet ports, so a combination of the above is required for 8000rpm+ use
    Last edited by schnee; 03-22-2011 at 10:40 PM.

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