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  1. #51

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonzaiCelica View Post
    get a 3rd gen 3sge which are dirt cheap. Or better yet buy a 3sge beams redtop. I have one myself and you will not be disappointed. Now finding a good quality used Helical LSD is going to be another thing. Get your hands on a quaife helical lsd. Brand new they cost around $1,100
    But then thats not getting more power out of a 5sfe. That's not what this thread is about.
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  2. #52
    Junior Member BonzaiCelica is on a distinguished road

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    ya but honestly how much N/A power do you think you can get from a 5sfe. About 30 hp if even that. You can get a 3sge beams into your engine bay for probably $1,000 cheaper and with another 30 hp on top of your high powered N/A 5sfe. Its a fuel economic engine for crying out loud. Not worth doing a full out build at all. At that rate your 5sfe won't pass smog anyways no matter what state your in, it will only pass visual.

  3. #53

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    Actually I think we have seen over 170 at the wheels on a 5s for less than a G. Not to mention your price is skewed cause there's wiring involved in a swap. The swapper has to either do that or pay for it to be done. Not to mention freshening up the engine (gaskets, seals etc) costs more. I honestly don't like the 5s either but Jeff (mrturrari) has done a lot with one for not very much. And I've driven his car and it's powerful for a 5s. It moves. This thread is there to give people an option. If they want to build their 5s they can. If they want to swap they can.
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    Originally Posted by surfergravity
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  4. #54
    Junior Member BonzaiCelica is on a distinguished road

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    no way 170 at the wheels I call bs. 4th gen 3sge can make 170 whp in stock form.

    So your telling me you've seen someone put on an additional 65 hp in N/A form? Do you have specs?? I'd like to see it.
    Last edited by BonzaiCelica; 06-11-2011 at 11:16 AM.

  5. #55

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    Quote Originally Posted by BonzaiCelica View Post
    ya but honestly how much N/A power do you think you can get from a 5sfe. About 30 hp if even that. You can get a 3sge beams into your engine bay for probably $1,000 cheaper and with another 30 hp on top of your high powered N/A 5sfe. Its a fuel economic engine for crying out loud. Not worth doing a full out build at all. At that rate your 5sfe won't pass smog anyways no matter what state your in, it will only pass visual.
    What do emissions have to do with it?
    ra·tion·al·ize /ˈręʃənlˌaɪz, ˈręʃnlˌaɪz/ Show Spelled [rash-uh-nl-ahyz, rash-nl-ahyz] Show IPA verb, -ized, -iz·ing.
    –verb (used with object)
    1. to ascribe (one's acts, opinions, etc.) to causes that superficially seem reasonable and valid but that actually are unrelated to the true, possibly unconscious and often less creditable or agreeable causes.

  6. #56
    Senior Member jaydog82 is on a distinguished road

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    iv gotten a 5s up to almost 150 hp for pretty cheap, 2rev head with a port n polish and head shave- cold air intake-cat back and header- 30 degrees of timing-along with a full rebuild and a stage 1 clutch. i never had it dynoed, but there was a very big difference from stock.
    ST165

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    JDM engine and new turbo. SPEC stage 2 clutch,walbro 255lph fuel pump, AEM dry flow filter and custom 3" straight intake, 3" ausie DP, upgraded HE and heat wrapped ST165 WTA IC, 8mm magnacore wires, speedsorce solid motor mounts, ASI Aluminum RAD, 2micron second oil filter kit, prosport EGT-BOOST-WB O2 gauges, all new: seals/gaskets/belts/hoses/ Water Pump/ Timing belt kit, Rebuilt half shafts, new drive shaft u-joints, new control bushings, cleaned and balanced injectors,

  7. #57

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    I guess I was wrong, mrturrari said 147 to the wheels.

    Anyway hes aware that he can do an engine swap or this or that. That isnt the point of this thread. Wanna talk about your beams, or 3SGE? Go start your own thread.
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  8. #58
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    Go brag about your beams in another thread.

    This is a 5sfe thread.

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    "Pain and despair, damage and beatings, they don't end the world. The world ends when you're dead. You've got more punishment in store. Until then, stand it like a man and give some back".

  9. #59
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    I have yet to see a cam'd 5S with a good header/collector. N/A needs overlap scavenging to get the intake moving. Still power left on the table.
    I really like the way aaawelder put it: "do not include yourself in this circuit"

  10. #60
    The Notorious P.I.G.
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    I had a CAI, header, 2.25 in exhaust, 10.5:1 compression ratio, port matched head/intake manifold, cams, and an SAFC. My old 5sfe was quite a bit faster than stock.

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    "Pain and despair, damage and beatings, they don't end the world. The world ends when you're dead. You've got more punishment in store. Until then, stand it like a man and give some back".

  11. #61

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    Even though I'm new here, can I weigh in just quickly? Without going into forced induction, 3sgte swaps, overall costs, blah, blah, blah, blah, I would just like to say why I have chosen to upgrade my 5sfe. Please keep in mind that I'm a married, 34 year old father w/ 2 kids. Although I love fast cars (every man does, or at least should) they are not my priority in life right now. I am not an 18 year old ricer living w/ my parents and trying to play "2 Fast 2 Furious."
    1. Although I'm very mechanically inclined, and own lots of nice tools, I am not incredibly experienced at working on vehicles. I have no immediate desire to rush into ordering an entire motor, rebuilding it from the ground up, deal w/ compatibility issues, rewiring harnesses, etc. I CAN however, handle installing a new header myself, swap out the head, install and weld an exhaust, etc...
    2. I can't drop the amount of money required on a used engine, front clip, machine shop costs, new full engine gasket sets, pistons, rings, ecu, etc, etc, etc. I CAN however, afford to order a header online, install it on the weekend, and then order a SRI next month and install it. Am I going to end up w/ a 600HP street monster? No, I have no illusions about this, but every month my car gets a little peppier, and a little more fun to drive, and I'm LEARNING more and more about it as I go, which hopefully in the end might get me to the confidence level where I would consider an engine swap.
    3. My car is now 21 years old, and it has over 300k on the clicker. I have to accept the fact that although I would LIKE to through all my spare money at it and see what happens, I also have maintenance costs. So that spare $150 doesn't go as far last month, for example when I needed a new fuel filter.

    I can't get over how many idiots continue to argue on this thread. His thread wasn't WHETHER or not you should, or WHICH engine would be better to use in the long run, or WHAT was the best route to take if you had an extra 3k in the bank, and 2 spare weeks to work on your vehicle while it was down, AND an extra vehicle to drive WHILE it was down. This thread is about HOW to get more power from a 5sfe. Period. I have enjoyed reading it, have learned from it, and plan to benefit from someone who obviously has an excellent knowledge of this engine. Everyone else can pound sand.
    1990 GT
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  12. #62
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    I love you

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    Originally Posted by manda
    what do I know? I'm just a woman on a car forum..
    guess I better get back to makin your sammich
    Cheese! Cheese for everyone! Wait..no. No cheese for you!

    89 Celica GT
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  13. #63
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    If you've got cams, and a header, add a 2.25" diameter ~20" long (length adjusts rpm range) collector at the end of the header. Without a collector you're getting no scavenge on overlap.
    I really like the way aaawelder put it: "do not include yourself in this circuit"

  14. #64
    The Notorious P.I.G.
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    I had a collector on mine.

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  15. #65
    Ultimo Miembro Fantįstico Gigantesco MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of
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    I don't count those ebay style things as headers at all. Made of U-bends, nice merge section, or gtfo. Mine cost me over $400 to make on my 3S

    edit: They probably flow better (reduced backpressure) vs. the factory manifolds, so they aren't a complete loss, but the are not a "header".
    I really like the way aaawelder put it: "do not include yourself in this circuit"

  16. #66
    The Notorious P.I.G.
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    Nah, I had the camry header. Doesn't have the long runners but it did have a collector. Probably better than that ebay one though.


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    "Pain and despair, damage and beatings, they don't end the world. The world ends when you're dead. You've got more punishment in store. Until then, stand it like a man and give some back".

  17. #67

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    Thats right bitch so better recognize!
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    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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    Originally Posted by surfergravity
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    This thread is gayer than Richard Simmons singing a duet with Elton John in a bath house.

  18. #68
    Senior Member jaydog82 is on a distinguished road

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    1st gen jdm 3sge 4-2-1 header

    ST165

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    JDM engine and new turbo. SPEC stage 2 clutch,walbro 255lph fuel pump, AEM dry flow filter and custom 3" straight intake, 3" ausie DP, upgraded HE and heat wrapped ST165 WTA IC, 8mm magnacore wires, speedsorce solid motor mounts, ASI Aluminum RAD, 2micron second oil filter kit, prosport EGT-BOOST-WB O2 gauges, all new: seals/gaskets/belts/hoses/ Water Pump/ Timing belt kit, Rebuilt half shafts, new drive shaft u-joints, new control bushings, cleaned and balanced injectors,

  19. #69
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    I have a 5s and a 4-2-1 3s laying around. havent decided which to use yet

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    Originally Posted by manda
    what do I know? I'm just a woman on a car forum..
    guess I better get back to makin your sammich
    Cheese! Cheese for everyone! Wait..no. No cheese for you!

    89 Celica GT
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  20. #70
    I'M KILLING IT k.beaty is on a distinguished road
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    I've got my hands on a TRD Pro/Celebrity header. These were designed by TRD and used only on the Pro/Celebrity cars. They were never put into production. These are pictures that the previous owner sent to me, I have since cut the end of it off right before the exhaust clamp and had a flange welded on.





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  21. #71

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    Thanks guys for all the comments and correcting a lot of the misinformation out there. That is one of the reasons I like CelicaTech is there is much more openness to new ideas here and support for those who want to try things. It's one thing to give someone feedback on their ideas and completely another to just shoot them down out of hand with no thought into their situation and goals.

    As Sopaynefull said, some of us just want a working car that we can mod a little at a time rather then sink a ton of cash and effort into it all at once.
    Some of us also enjoy the journey and rewards of designing and building something ourselves. I have owned the 5sfe in my Teal MR2 for 7 years now and have had about 6 months of total down time, most of that because of mechanical failures or relating to my 5sfte efforts. My other 5sfe, I have had for 4 years and it has not been down for more then a couple of days at a time. That car has all bolt-ons and makes somewhere between 130-135rwhp (155-160 at the crank) and I have spent a total of about $350 (Delta cams, homemade header, Turbo MR2 exhaust). That is as much power as a gen2 3sge with more torque. I realize that some can't do it as cheaply as me but it can still be a pretty good bang for the buck.

    FYI, Jim Snodgrass made 147rwhp but also only had one cam upgraded and it was only a 294 grind. He ran an EMS and 4-2-1 header though and did some mild head work. No one has yet dynoed a 5sfe with high compression, performance cams, custom intake manifold and purpose built header so you won't see BEAMS power levels until that happens. And by the way every stock BEAMS dyno I have seen puts power at 160rwhp which means Jim with his mild cam and stock intake manifold was just 13rwhp away. That is of course if you just want to consider peak HP numbers which can misrepresent how fast a car really is.

  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWOT View Post
    If you've got cams, and a header, add a 2.25" diameter ~20" long (length adjusts rpm range) collector at the end of the header. Without a collector you're getting no scavenge on overlap.
    That's not entirely true but I am assuming that you are trying to make a point. A collector amplifies the pulses so they can be more effective. You can still have scavenging even if the primaries empty right into the exhaust pipe at odd angles or abruptly. Much better to have a good collector then not though.

    Quote Originally Posted by k.beaty View Post
    I've got my hands on a TRD Pro/Celebrity header. These were designed by TRD and used only on the Pro/Celebrity cars. They were never put into production. These are pictures that the previous owner sent to me, I have since cut the end of it off right before the exhaust clamp and had a flange welded on.





    That is one of the better designs I have seen. Looks like a very well thought out piece.

  23. #73

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    That TRD header looks like a copy of the Tanaka (JDM) headers


    The Gen1 GE header pictured is an early type, the better later type has longer pipes and a curved manifold


    Price/performance you can't beat the gen2/3 GE headers


    From my experience the FE exhaust is too small to make full use of better headers

    The quickest/cheapest route to FE power is to use the later head/manifolds/pistons, each gen got more and more power


    Later head has more ribs in front and makes a lot more power -



    Early porting is tiny compared to later type head


    Later cams have much more lift & duration, probably not a good idea to use with the early head and pistons


    Last edited by schnee; 06-25-2011 at 09:06 AM.

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  24. #74
    Ultimo Miembro Fantįstico Gigantesco MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of
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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTurrari View Post
    A collector amplifies the pulses so they can be more effective. You can still have scavenging even if the primaries empty right into the exhaust pipe at odd angles or abruptly.
    No amplification takes place. The collector is there because you have to have a certain area change in order to maximize the reflection amplitude, but it will never make it stronger than the original wave. Without a collector you may have low backpressure, but you aren't scavenging (not enough energy), we're talking a difference in amplitude on several orders of magnitude. It is the area change that is most important.

    edit: on a side note, you can make a surprisingly effective header by having short stacks (maybe 4"-10" long from the head flange) feeding into a large tube (8" diameter) at an angle that promotes exit to the tailpipe. I've seen results off these "log" style manifolds that rival the best headers. But they don't serve the same purpose, trading general-all-around low pressure for a tuned range. I'm making these for my regal gs since I value the band more than a tuned range with the blower on it.
    Last edited by MrWOT; 06-25-2011 at 06:44 PM.
    I really like the way aaawelder put it: "do not include yourself in this circuit"

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrWOT View Post
    No amplification takes place.
    Amplify is probably a bad choice of words on my part. The shape of the collector can restack the pulse so that it is more focused or less focused. The amount of energy doesn't change but it's duration and amplitude can alter relative to what came down the runner in the first place. The collector itself is another secondary length that has it's own reflections. A collector with rounded or triangular primary entry points will soften the pulse and spread it out over time including the negative wave that immediately travels up the other runners. A tapering down collector pipe will cause the wave to compress as it reflects into a shorter duration and give you a higher peak. It works similarly to a velocity stack but in reverse. Any time there is a change in pipe sizer there is a reflection. The trick with both secondaries and collectors is to get them in sync with the primaries so you aren't cancelling out the effects.

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