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  1. #51

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    i think your best be would be to just call geoff directly, he's a very cool guy that seemed very willing to help out with cams to suit whatever you want them to do, and for a decent price.

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    for the specs of my 5sfte

  2. #52
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    5sfe mystery cams....lol

    http://mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=376649

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  3. #53

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    Hello, I am a regular over at Toyota Nation. I know this thread goes a ways back but I just wanted to chime in here with a bit of info that will save you guys some money on cam mods for the 5SFE. So far the highest power I have seen made from an NA 5SFE was made by Jim Snodgrass. See dyno below. He used a staggered cam set-up but heres the kicker, He went with a 294 grind from WebCam Inc on the intake cam and left the exhaust cam alone. So a 294 grind on the intake and a stock exhaust cam profile. Jim says that he had a slightly better peak HP with both cams installed but when using the intake only he had a better curve with less torque loss. He also notes that without a good tune you will not realize much of the potential and we all know the cost of stand-alone management systems...... So anyway Webcams cost is for 2 cams. Regrind one cam.....pay half the cost. Although I should note that WebCam has hiked their prices recently so maybe Colt would be the better purchase.
    Last edited by frenum49; 01-26-2010 at 03:50 PM.

  4. #54
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    nice power... but he also has alot more done then just intake & exhaust.

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  5. #55

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    Yeah and if Jim had used the 294 exhaust cam as well he would have made less torque but more HP. Just look at the original graph posted in this thread and notice what having both cams does. Torque and HP are almost equal. Had he extended the torque up in the rpms a little (500rpms) using the 294 exhaust cam he would have made 5-10hp more on that dyno on that day.

  6. #56

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    Quote Originally Posted by frenum49 View Post
    He also notes that without a good tune you will not realize much of the potential and we all know the cost of stand-alone management systems......
    A "good tune" does not require a stand alone, there are several other options, all much more cost effective.

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  7. #57
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    I might be confused - but don't you need to open up the breathing with a new valve job and port and polish to get the gains from the new cams?

    Did the gains in the first post come ONLY from new cams?
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
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  8. #58

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    Quote Originally Posted by klapa View Post
    I might be confused - but don't you need to open up the breathing with a new valve job and port and polish to get the gains from the new cams?
    To get the most out of a set of cams, yes, one would ideally work the entire head (valves, springs, ports, etc.). However, gains can still be made with just cams, especially as the 5s is endowed with some weak cams from the factory.


    Quote Originally Posted by klapa View Post
    Did the gains in the first post come ONLY from new cams?
    Quote Originally Posted by presure2 View Post
    the blue line (run #9) is dustins car, with the following mods:
    cams, intake, and an exhaust,
    the red one (run #8) is my 5s with just an injen intake.
    Nope.
    She lives!!!

    And now thrives. Took 3 years and an embarrassing amount of money, but tooooooooootally worth it
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  9. #59
    Lifetime Member joe's gt is a glorious beacon of light joe's gt is a glorious beacon of light joe's gt is a glorious beacon of light joe's gt is a glorious beacon of light joe's gt is a glorious beacon of light joe's gt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klapa View Post
    I might be confused - but don't you need to open up the breathing with a new valve job and port and polish to get the gains from the new cams?

    Did the gains in the first post come ONLY from new cams?
    It would definitely help, but the higher lift, duration, or both improves breathing within itself. The engine can only breathe as well as its most restrictive point. Obviously if the valve lift and duration isn't high or long enough, that will be the restriction.
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  10. #60
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    Okay - but the listed mods "cams, intake, and exhaust" might be anything - and I DO REALIZE this is the NA forum - but if I needed cams at $450, valve job and head work at ~$1200 - for a possible 30HP boost and greater RPM range then I could add another ~$1.5K or so and get a turbo alltrac project car with much more potential?

    Am I missing something again or perhaps have flawed $ numbers?
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  11. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by klapa View Post
    Did the gains in the first post come ONLY from new cams?
    The graph in the first post has no other mods. That is the cams only. Other mods will just increase the gains you get with the cams.

    Quote Originally Posted by joe's gt View Post
    IThe engine can only breathe as well as its most restrictive point.
    Not true. If you have two places that restrict power at 6000rpms and you remove one of them the other will flow better and you will increase power at that rpm.

    This explains why:
    http://warp.scl.utah.edu/mr2/Howanengineworks.html

    You get the best power when everything is sized and tuned for the same range of RPMs though. That should be the goal when building an NA motor, or a turbo for that matter, to get everything working together in your desired power band. The further right in the rev range you can shift everything the more power you will make.
    Last edited by MrTurrari; 02-04-2010 at 12:56 AM.

  12. #62
    I'll be the little spoon KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by klapa View Post
    Okay - but the listed mods "cams, intake, and exhaust" might be anything - and I DO REALIZE this is the NA forum - but if I needed cams at $450, valve job and head work at ~$1200 - for a possible 30HP boost and greater RPM range then I could add another ~$1.5K or so and get a turbo alltrac project car with much more potential?

    Am I missing something again or perhaps have flawed $ numbers?
    ? $1200??? I should start doing selling valve jobs...

    Dude, valve jobs/head work = cake.

    Cost... um... very, very little.

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  13. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoreanJoey View Post
    ? $1200??? I should start doing selling valve jobs...

    Dude, valve jobs/head work = cake.

    Cost... um... very, very little.
    Yup, you can knock 900-1000 off that price.

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  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by KoreanJoey View Post
    ? $1200??? I should start doing selling valve jobs...

    Dude, valve jobs/head work = cake.

    Cost... um... very, very little.
    Yea - well I was basing that on quoted prices here for 3 or 5 angle valve jobs with P&P.

    I can do a valve job myself if that means re-working a standard head including grinding in the valves, assembling with new springs and keepers, setting the lash with shims, etc.

    Yet I cannot re-grind/replace valve seats nor could I replace valve guides.

    I think I have two different answers to my question as far as what mods resulted in the dyno charts first posted in this thread. Mr. Turrarie I think has stated that these gains were realized simply by changing the cam profiles - while I think Hiko has suggested that these were NOT the only mods - there were other mods in the intake and exhaust system.

    If I could realize the gains indicated by those dyno results in the beginning of this thread simply with new cam profile and some tuning (I have a header minus CAT and thus free flowing exhaust) I'd go for it - yet if I need a fancy valve job that'll cost me >500$ - forget it - I'll just wait till my "ship comes in" and buy a turbo..
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  15. #65

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    the only mods on the test cars (from my first post)was a short ram intake on my car, an intake and an exhaust on dustins car.
    the motors were both 100% stock internally (other than the cams on dustins car of course..lol)

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  16. #66

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    There's your answer.

    BTW- even with angle grinds, shaving the head down, and so on, $1200 is waaayy too much. Hookecho had it all done on his head, ask him for a comparison price.

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  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by grayscale View Post
    There's your answer.

    BTW- even with angle grinds, shaving the head down, and so on, $1200 is waaayy too much. Hookecho had it all done on his head, ask him for a comparison price.

    Thank you all for your answers - and allow me to apologize for my ignorance - I really don't even know much about fuel injected cars - I've been up to now a "carburetor person".

    Thus if I might "summarize" here - those initial dyno comparisons reflect changes made simply by the addition of the altered cam profiles - with the "proviso" that the car (Dustin's car) also had addition of a header and other provision for a freer flowing exhaust. Aside from that - the gains - especially the relative "widening" of the power band - were achieved mostly from the sole addition of the altered cam profiles.

    Aside from the above - I don't know what is a "short ram" intake - I understand "short ram" or "long ram" only from past (ancient) experience with Chrysler 426 wedge engines with dual four-barrel "cross ram" manifolds - both "short" and "long" versions - and the relative merits and demerits of each. (basically - great torque from the long and more rpm from the short).

    I would then ask a simple question - a bit n00bish - and qualify this request with the knowledge that nothing in life is "guaranteed" - and we all take ultimate responsibility for our own decisions.

    So that question would be:

    If I would ONLY install the altered cams - in an otherwise very fresh and stock 5SFE that has a free flowing exhaust system already - might I expect the gains in the power band which would effectively mean that the thing would "keep pulling" up to 6000 RPM?
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  18. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by klapa View Post
    Thus if I might "summarize" here - those initial dyno comparisons reflect changes made simply by the addition of the altered cam profiles - with the "proviso" that the car (Dustin's car) also had addition of a header and other provision for a freer flowing exhaust. Aside from that - the gains - especially the relative "widening" of the power band - were achieved mostly from the sole addition of the altered cam profiles.
    Oh yeah I forgot he had exhaust too. No headers though which would have made a bigger difference. The exhaust if it is a little bigger pipe will just help the cams work in the higher RPMs a little better. An intake will do very little if anything at this level.

    Quote Originally Posted by klapa View Post
    If I would ONLY install the altered cams - in an otherwise very fresh and stock 5SFE that has a free flowing exhaust system already - might I expect the gains in the power band which would effectively mean that the thing would "keep pulling" up to 6000 RPM?
    You would basically see similar gains to what is in the first post. With a good tuned header you can bump your torque up in the high end if you want or increase your peaks but they will still stay in the same place. So basically with a stock displacement 5sfe the 294 grind cams will always have peaks at 4200 and 4700rpms and it will always fall off after that but your other mods can keep that from happening as quickly.

  19. #69

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    Quote Originally Posted by MrTurrari View Post
    You would basically see similar gains to what is in the first post. With a good tuned header you can bump your torque up in the high end if you want or increase your peaks but they will still stay in the same place. So basically with a stock displacement 5sfe the 294 grind cams will always have peaks at 4200 and 4700rpms and it will always fall off after that but your other mods can keep that from happening as quickly.
    What would a change in fuel/compression do to the cam upgrade? Would the biggest gain be a small increase in the power band?

    And I have had a few 3 angle valve jobs quoted in the $250 range that include all necessary parts and labor.

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  20. #70

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    if we end up doing a group buy im totally interested!

  21. #71
    I'll be the little spoon KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey's Avatar
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    I can talk to the guys @ Delta cam (local and fellow racers) about their prices on a regrind.

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  22. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoreanJoey View Post
    I can talk to the guys @ Delta cam (local and fellow racers) about their prices on a regrind.
    Please do! I can't find anything reliable about their pricing (all I hear is that it is rather cheap), and really want to know about what it would cost for the 5s.
    Last edited by Hiko; 03-31-2010 at 04:20 PM.
    She lives!!!

    And now thrives. Took 3 years and an embarrassing amount of money, but tooooooooootally worth it
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  23. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hiko View Post
    Please do! I can't find anything reliable about their pricing (all I hear is that is it rather cheap), and really want to know about what it would cost for the 5s.
    Ditto.

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  24. #74

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    i 3rd that lol

  25. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by christine_lives! View Post
    What would a change in fuel/compression do to the cam upgrade? Would the biggest gain be a small increase in the power band?
    Adding compression will just increase power everywhere. The power band will stay the same for the most part as peak cylinder pressures will be higher at every RPM. That means you get some low end back that was lost with the increased duration and you get more power in the mids and up top but you are now closer to the detonation threshold. The good news is it is harder to detonate at higher RPMS so it's not a problem until you really push it. So if you increased compression say to 10:1 with the 294 cams you could probably still run the lowest octane pump gas.

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