CelicaTech Main Page  CelicaTech Member List CelicaTech Image Gallery CelicaTech Data Garage Chatroom CelicaTech Forums Search CelicaTech Forums Contact CelicaTech
+ Reply to Thread
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst ... 3 4 5
Results 101 to 116 of 116
  1. #101

    Default

    Hi I'am buffalohunter7321 and I have a 88 GT-S with a 3sge Jdm short block and it has a rod knock. Can you tell me if there has been any problem's with your swap of the 5sge block that you installed in your car? Does the starter hook up right? What kind of head gasket did you use? Should I use the HKS gasket along with the stronger bolts to boult it on? And does the crank bolt at the tranny end need to be changed? ...buffalohunter7321

  2. #102

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by schnee
    Would'nt it be easier/cheaper/quicker to fit 1mm oversize SGE pistons into a 5SFE block and use the SGE head?.
    I didn't see this until now. No, it's not easier to just buy 1mm oversize pistons because the compression height of the 3sge pistons is almost a full 0.10" too high. And the rods are not a direct swap with the big end diameter being to small on the 3sge rod to bolt to the 5sfe crank. And if you try to use the 3sge rods and offset grind the 5sfe crank to make them fit, you will be effectively de-stroking the crank, which negates the purpose of the swap to start with.

    Quote Originally Posted by schnee
    or just switch the crank & rods?
    Another thing is that if you use a 5sfe block, and change the rods and crank using the +1mm pistons, you'll end up with a 2.04 liter 3sge block where the pistons are sunk into the block about another 0.10".

    Quote Originally Posted by schnee
    I bought some New Era 1mm oversize pistons yesterday for $200 and plan on going this route.
    My personal advice (take it or leave it), would be to try and fit those 3sge pistons into the 5sfe block. If what I say is true (there's always some doubt of info online), I would sell those pistons, and either get +1mm 5sfe pistons (increase of displacement should increase C/R), shave the 3sge head (it shouldn't take much to get it back to 9.5:1 C/R), or accept the 9.2:1 or so compression ratio the stock 5sfe block will give with a 3sge head.

    Hope this helps, and good luck.
    She lives!!!

    And now thrives. Took 3 years and an embarrassing amount of money, but tooooooooootally worth it
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  3. #103

    Default Mixing & matching parts for cheap power!

    What attracted me to this thread is the fact that by downsizing and offsetting (stroking) the the bigger 5sfe main journals - you can actually take the motor over 2200cc! or interestingly - make more power going your route, offsetting to the inside (de-stroking & re-sizing), and fitting longer rods & "shorter pistons ". (Tuning shops have been swapping rods/pistons between engines for decades!, - mostly they don't change the stroke but fit the longest rod/shortest piston they can possibly fit into the motor)

    The pre-91 5SFE has the same journals (48mm) as the 3SGE and 6 bolt flywheel, post 91 motors had bigger journals (52mm) and 8 bolt flywheels.(somebody correct me here if I'm wrong) - Using the 3S rod and some machining will give you up to an extra 4mm of stroke. Using an H22 rod will give you up to an extra 7mm stroke + weight saving.

    I strongly suggest that anyone trying any of these conversions fit aftermarket rods , as I suspect (a)the the oil holes are a flaw in the rod design and (b)the std rods & bolts aren't designed to take this kind of abuse for long periods, esp if the motor is going to make more than 300hp.
    UPDATE - use Prelude rods for a lighter/cheaper alternative!

    The pistons I bought are flat-tops, not the "roofed" type. Early 3SGE are flat top pistons (9.2CR), later pistons had "roofs" and more compression (10:1CR).(see here)

    The fact that a 5SFE block with 3S crank will create more combustion chamber room is great news for us wanting to stretch our rods and increase the rod/stroke ratio. This directly affects the piston "dwell" time at TDC and BDC and make heaps more power cheaply and reliably.

    The biggest problem facing all of us is that there is a wear problem due to cyl 3+4 running hotter, and to "clean" bore a 87mm 5SFE bore you typically will need an 87,5-88mm 3SGE piston - which is why I'm sticking with the 3SGE block. Wiseco make fantastic pistons for these motors and will make custom pistons if needed.

    The 3SGE pistons break ring lands in high boost motors. A good source would be Honda Prelude and S2000 pistons, but I haven't been able to greasy with them yet.
    UPDATE - S2000 (87mm) piston is a full 5mm shorter than 3SGE Gen2 & a LOT LIGHTER with a pin 1/2 the size of the Toyota's.

    The 5SFE piston is actually a revelation to us - leave it alone and you have a problem finding lost compression. The head can't be skimmed past the valve seats and if you use bigger valves .....ooops. The block deck is already prone to blowing head gaskets.
    BUT - If you mill the 5SFE pistons down till they are flat and use longer rods or stroke (or both), you have a cheap recipe for an awesome 2200cc+ motor with a 5S block!

    Thanks, you just made me realize how this 3SGE engine was made competitive against much bigger motors! Also explains how this car runs under 10 seconds on the 1/4mile here in Auckland.

    Quote:
    "I took some measurements and found some fascinating information between the Prelude H22a and the S2000's F20c engine. Combining these two engines components and using a TSX crankshaft enabled me to create a true 2.4-liter engine using the original F20C's 2.0- liter block. The main reason why this 2.4-stroker engine is such a perfect combination is the stroke of the K24 crankshaft in conjunction with the H22a's connecting rod center to center length and dead-on piston height matches perfectly with the F20C's deck height," Castillo said.
    Last edited by schnee; 09-20-2008 at 07:22 AM.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  4. #104

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by schnee

    Thanks, you just made me realize how this 3SGE engine was made competitive against much bigger motors! Also explains how this car runs under 10 seconds on the 1/4mile here in Auckland.
    Whoa.... what?

  5. #105

    Default Gettin smoked by Honda's?

    Here's how the Honda boys have been doing it for ages -
    http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/06...ild/index.html

    All I'm saying is that with some imagination, research, measuring - anythings possible! In fact a lot of the parts mentioned here can be used in our 3SFE/3SGE/5SGE conversions & upgrades.

    This 5SGE is a 2300cc+ monster on methanol @14:1CR.

    I know for a fact that many sub 10s cars are using Merc, BMW, Honda etc parts (pistons/rods) in their motors.
    Last edited by schnee; 09-19-2008 at 02:09 AM.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  6. #106
    Mustang Crew Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of
    Grot has been to an annual Dragon Meet! Grot has donated to the forums! Grot helped Azzy get to The Dragon in 2009. Grot helped bring Chaos back to the Dragon

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Under There
    Posts
    2,643

    Default

    the GE head is built for higher RPMs, you need to build the 5s bottom to completely utilize the GEs added power.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Murgatroy
    And I had a mullet to prove it.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by BabyBear
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Ive decided youre gay.

    Good day.

  7. #107
    Mustang Crew Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of
    Grot has been to an annual Dragon Meet! Grot has donated to the forums! Grot helped Azzy get to The Dragon in 2009. Grot helped bring Chaos back to the Dragon

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Under There
    Posts
    2,643

    Default

    You can run it stock. just be careful if your gonna run high RPMs, the 5s isnt built to rev.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Murgatroy
    And I had a mullet to prove it.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by BabyBear
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Ive decided youre gay.

    Good day.

  8. #108
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of
    MrWOT has donated to the forums! MrWOT helped get Luni's MR2 back on the road!

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boulder Creek, California
    Posts
    2,827
    Images
    50

    Default

    The only issue with the 5S is the rods and associated bolts.
    I really like the way aaawelder put it: "do not include yourself in this circuit"

  9. #109
    Mustang Crew Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of Grot has much to be proud of
    Grot has been to an annual Dragon Meet! Grot has donated to the forums! Grot helped Azzy get to The Dragon in 2009. Grot helped bring Chaos back to the Dragon

    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Under There
    Posts
    2,643

    Default

    thats what i meant when i said build the bottom end. that will be strong enough to utilize the high rev gains with that setup

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Murgatroy
    And I had a mullet to prove it.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by BabyBear
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Ive decided youre gay.

    Good day.

  10. #110
    CelicaTech Supporter rizin is on a distinguished road
    rizin has been to an annual Dragon Meet! rizin has donated to the forums!

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO.
    Posts
    771
    Images
    3

    Default

    3sgte guys are the 3sge and 3sgte passages the same. I will try to answer this my self by looking at Vip's thread on his build. Wondering if this would work on my hopefully soon 5sgte build.

  11. #111
    CelicaTech Supporter rizin is on a distinguished road
    rizin has been to an annual Dragon Meet! rizin has donated to the forums!

    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Grand Junction, CO.
    Posts
    771
    Images
    3

    Default

    Well the answer is yes they are the same in the pics on this thread as they are on vip09 project thread. So I am going to try this route rather then drilling my block.

  12. #112
    Running a little warm there... klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold klapa is a splendid one to behold
    klapa has been to an annual Dragon Meet! klapa has donated to the forums!

    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Cary, NC
    Posts
    1,419

    Default

    I suppose I'm a little confused - why would a 5SFE be better with a 3SGE head, intake, exhaust and ECU as opposed to rebuilding the 5SFE head with the bigger (up to 2mm oversize) valves, and three or five angle valve job with opening up the ports and new cams in the process?

    Seems like for an existing 5SFE the costs would be nearly the same - as would the benefit in added power.
    92 STX "Mr. St" - Daily Driver
    91 Alltrac - Project beater fast car
    93 GTS - Project luxury road car

  13. #113
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of MrWOT has much to be proud of
    MrWOT has donated to the forums! MrWOT helped get Luni's MR2 back on the road!

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Boulder Creek, California
    Posts
    2,827
    Images
    50

    Default

    The 3S G head has a MUCH higher flow capacity vs. a 5S F head

  14. #114

    Default

    Yamaha head & cams vs Toyota head & cams?

    If you insist on using the 5S crank & block I highly recommend using the GE rods & o/s pistons as well.
    FE pistons will have almost no compression with the GE head anyway.

    Here's the difference between happy motoring and disaster -
    FE rods are skinny and so are the bolts



    The different pistons - GE, GE gen2, FE

    Use the Gen 2/3 pistons only where you are using 95+ RON

    FE vs GE - compare valve sizes and chamber shapes, GE cams are in a different league
    and gen3/Beams are even better
    Last edited by schnee; 01-23-2010 at 06:59 AM.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  15. #115

    Default

    I know this is an older thread, but did the OP ever finish the new version of the engine?

  16. #116
    Senior Member v8killer is on a distinguished road

    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Hollister, California !!!!!
    Posts
    679
    Images
    10

    Default

    using the 3s guts in a 5s block with 87mm 3s pistons is a good way to go. the deck height is the same.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    black st165 sleeper- the v8 killin' 2.0L bottle of whoop-ass!
    mods: you wish you knew!
    "Straight lines are for fast cars, turns are for fast drivers" Colin McRae- RIP


    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Originally Posted by Luni
    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
    Are you serious?

    Jesus, you really should just get a fucking sportscar that was designed to go fast.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. 3sge head on 5sfe block info needed
    By gen5 in forum Naturally Aspirated Applications and Tuning
    Replies: 32
    Last Post: 10-09-2006, 07:22 PM
  2. 5SFE -> 2nd Gen 3SGE N/A Swap Details?
    By Kingsoup in forum Naturally Aspirated Applications and Tuning
    Replies: 108
    Last Post: 01-29-2006, 07:48 AM
  3. 3s-gte head 5sfe block
    By punch in forum 6th Generation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 03-10-2005, 04:15 AM
  4. 5sgte/ 5sfe with 3sge head
    By BEAMS in forum Naturally Aspirated Applications and Tuning
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-31-2004, 10:34 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Top Member List Chat Forum Search Contact Top