CelicaTech Main Page  CelicaTech Member List CelicaTech Image Gallery CelicaTech Data Garage Chatroom CelicaTech Forums Search CelicaTech Forums Contact CelicaTech
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 4 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 84
  1. #1

    Lightbulb Tutorial to convert AWD tranny to FWD *WITH PICS*

    Im currently converting my AWD tranny that came with the 2nd gen 3sgte I used for my swap.

    Converting the AWD to a FWD tranny is not as hard people would think, and when finished, it will be exactly as an MR2 tranny, except with the shifter cables already going in the right direction. Also, with this method, your center differential won't burn since it will be completly removed.

    Goodies needed :

    -Alltrac tranny.
    -GT4 shift cables.
    -MR2 turbo differential (open, OEM Toyota VLSD, aftermarket LSD)
    -MR2 differential cover.
    -Speedometer drive for the differential if it does not come with the diff.
    -2 axles seals (optional, but recommended and cheap).
    -1 set of alltrac outer axles.
    -1 set of inner MR2 axle with passenger axle carrier (get LSD inner axles if going with the OEM Toyota MR2 turbo VLSD unit).
    -A puller and access to a press to replace 5th gears on transmission.
    -An Alltrac crossmember with the transmission rear mount (or modify your existing one).

    I'll try to do a step by step guide (I will really need to post pictures later):

    1 - Remove the transfer case by unbolting it from the bellhousing case. Inside this transfer case there is the gear that drives the propeller shaft (that goes to the rear differential). Also there is the center viscous coupling unit. Remove the transfer cases (3 parts) and everything inside. You won't need these anymore.

    2 - Open transmission by removing 5th gear case. Remove 5th gears. Remove bellhousing case. Remove shifting forks. Finally you can remove the center/front differential from the bellhousing.

    3 - Change drive axle oil seal from the bellhousing if your tranny has high milage (cheap at dealer).

    4 - Buy an MR2 differential. I suggest getting an LSD unit, since opening that tranny is a pain and getting LSD with a 3sgte is a must IMHO You either can buy an open MR2 turbo diff, a OEM toyota VLSD diff, or better yet, aftermarket torsen diff. The MR2 differential will work perfectly in the AWD tranny. The bearings will sits nice and thigh.

    5 - Remove ring gear from the AWD front/center differential by removing the 16 bolts, and tapping it with a brass hammer (or place a piece of wood and hit it).

    6 - Place the ring gear on the MR2 diff, place the 16 bolts.

    7 - Order a speedometer drive from Toyota dealer (cost me 80$ can, but I bet you can get a better price than that). Place the speedometer drive on mr2 diff.

    8 - Install diff. If your AWD tranny grinds, and you'd like to replace the synchros for not too much, now is a good time to do it.

    9 - Re-assemble the tranny: Place the input/output shafts, selecting gear forks, oil cooler lines, bellhousing case, 5th gear, 5th gear cover.

    10 - At this point, you'll need the differential cover from the MR2 that will bolt on where you removed the transfer case. You can get this from a toasted MR2 tranny. This cover has the passenger axle seal. Replace it also if worn or old.

    11 - Get MR2 turbo inner driveshafts. You need axle with turbo and LSD if using the OEM Toyota VLSD diff. Otherwise, if using open differential or aftermarket LSD (TRD, cusco, etc) use the normal turbo axle. The normal Mr2 turbo non-LSD axle can be modified also to fit the OEM Toyota LSD diff.

    12 - You need to make hybrid axles. Use the celica alltrac OUTER axles, and the INNER MR2 axles. The outer axles is those that enters the hub with bearing at the wheels. The inners enters the transmission to plug into the diff. You can separate the outers and inners axles by removing 6 8mm Allenkey bolts.

    13 - Install the new alltrac/mr2 hybrid tranny. Use the celica alltrac shifting cables, use either electronic or cable driven speedo by swapping the correct one on tranny. Use 3sgte clutch/flywheel/pressure plate. Place the alltrac/mr2 hybrid axles.

    14 - The rear transmission mount will be different. This also happens if you swap the MR2 transmission. You need to get an alltrac crossmember, or modify your existing one (the mount is not at the same place).

    15 - Drive

    Ok I know this isn't a detailed step by step guide, but this should give a good lead to any of us that wants to convert their tranny.

    Did I do it ? I'm almost done, I'm only waiting for the speedometer drive for the MR2 diff, then I can assemble back the tranny. I need MR2 axles also.

    I'm pretty confident that this will work, and because I had a reltively low milage alltrac tranny laying around, this transmission will not cost me that much, but will be really solid, weight the same as an MR2 tranny, will be LSD with solid axles. I won't need to tackle with the shifting cables pointing in the wrong directions also

    NOTE: Keep in mind that you should use the BGB to disassemble and assemble the tranny. Also this guide is intended for the 2nd gen 3sgte on a 5th st184 celica. However, this should work on 4th, 5th and 6th gen celica, and all version of alltrac AWD transmission but maybe with some minor differences.

    Hope it helps someone. If anyone have corrections to make please go ahead!

    -Phil
    Last edited by torn; 10-28-2005 at 02:45 AM.

  2. #2
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean's Avatar
    Sean has donated to the forums! Sean helped get Luni's MR2 back on the road! Sean helped bring Chaos back to the Dragon Sean helped KM replace his 5-year-old clutch.

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Washington & Oregon
    Posts
    3,787
    Images
    400

    Default

    VERY good write up! Have any pics?

    I wonder if this could be done with the RC alltrac transmission as well? Take advantage of those gear ratio's? That would be interesting!

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    Turbo 1990 Celica T3/T4 57 trim
    2007 Toyota Tundra DBL SR5 5.7 TRD
    2010 Lexus ISF PPE Headers JOE Z Exhaust K40 Radar
    2007 Range Rover Sport HSE

  3. #3

    Default

    The difference with RC tranny is the 1st, 2nd and final drite ratio, everything else is the same. You just have to use the RC ring gear (final drive) with its output shaft.

    But when you say its an adventage, it depends. The RC tranny has longer gear = better top speed, but less acceleration.

    -Phil
    Last edited by torn; 10-24-2005 at 01:05 AM.

  4. #4

    Default

    I (can't) see how this is price beneficial though.. you need stuff from a turbo MR2 tranny.. I mean... Is the alltrac tranny that much better to convert to FWD than using a turbo MR2 LSD tranny to begin with?

  5. #5
    Driving Miss Daisy VikingJZ is a name known to all VikingJZ is a name known to all VikingJZ is a name known to all VikingJZ is a name known to all VikingJZ is a name known to all VikingJZ is a name known to all VikingJZ's Avatar
    VikingJZ has been to an annual Dragon Meet! VikingJZ has donated to the forums! VikingJZ helped get Grayscale's Celica towed from The Dragon in 2008. VikingJZ helped Azzy get to The Dragon in 2009.

    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Van Down by the River
    Posts
    3,582
    Images
    32

    Default

    Either way it makes for a good sticky.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  6. #6

    Default

    I (can't) see how this is price beneficial though.. you need stuff from a turbo MR2 tranny.. I mean... Is the alltrac tranny that much better to convert to FWD than using a turbo MR2 LSD tranny to begin with?
    Well,it depends.

    I don't know for how much you can get an MR2 tranny with LSD, LSD axles, but the price surely pretty high (1000$ US?)

    Now, you get an aftermarket torsen LSD, you need parts that you would need from an MR2 tranny swap anyway ... and there you go .. depending if you have a free alltrac tranny laying around, I think you can save some cost. Don't forget that you don't get the wrong direction shifter cable problem too !

    -Phil

  7. #7
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Slider will become famous soon enough Slider will become famous soon enough Slider's Avatar

    Join Date
    Dec 2004
    Location
    Chicago, IL
    Posts
    2,414
    Images
    54

    Default

    Excellent write up

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    '90 Celica GT
    '95 Miata

  8. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    VERY good write up! Have any pics?

    I wonder if this could be done with the RC alltrac transmission as well? Take advantage of those gear ratio's? That would be interesting!
    Yes, this is interesting.
    Pics would definitly be nice.

    Sean, RC transmission is almost identical inside. I have one and my 93 apart right now, swapping final drives.
    In addition to different ratios, it also has triple cone syncros on 1st, maybe 2nd too?
    I will know for sure in a day or two.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  9. #9
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean has a brilliant future Sean's Avatar
    Sean has donated to the forums! Sean helped get Luni's MR2 back on the road! Sean helped bring Chaos back to the Dragon Sean helped KM replace his 5-year-old clutch.

    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Washington & Oregon
    Posts
    3,787
    Images
    400

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by alltracman78
    Yes, this is interesting.
    Pics would definitly be nice.

    Sean, RC transmission is almost identical inside. I have one and my 93 apart right now, swapping final drives.
    In addition to different ratios, it also has triple cone syncros on 1st, maybe 2nd too?
    I will know for sure in a day or two.
    Thats far from identical, and thats what i was trying to get at, the uprated syncros

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

    Turbo 1990 Celica T3/T4 57 trim
    2007 Toyota Tundra DBL SR5 5.7 TRD
    2010 Lexus ISF PPE Headers JOE Z Exhaust K40 Radar
    2007 Range Rover Sport HSE

  10. #10

    Default

    I meant as far as parts swapping.
    There is ALOT more that is identical inside than what is not.....
    Pretty soon I'll know just how close they are.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  11. #11

    Default

    Awesome, I'm really happy to see this.

    As mentioned, in most cases it's probably just easier to get the whole MR2 tranny rather than try to find the diff and diff cover... but still, it's good to know.

    -Doc
    -Dr Tweak, Toyota engine swap wiring expert extraordinaire

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  12. #12

    Default

    Well I will have an alltrac tranny soon enough.. But is it worth all the extra weight?

  13. #13

    Default

    Well I will have an alltrac tranny soon enough.. But is it worth all the extra weight?
    There is no extra weight. Swapping an MR2 diff instead of the center/front diff from the alltrac will make this tranny as heavy as an MR2. There won't be any difference. If you would place this converted tranny, and an authentic MR2 turbo tranny side by side, you won't see any difference, except for the shifting forks pointing in the opposite direction.

    Remember, AWD tranny was designed BEFORE the MR2 turbo, and because of the similarities (bolt pattern on bellhousing case, mounts point, size of the differential, etc) I'm pretty sure Toyota used the AWD design tranny that was proven, and just replaced center/front diff with a front only diff. And also made a cover to block where was the transfer case (instead of being casted in the bellhousing case like normal tranny).

    This tranny design has been used for a while, and may still be used today. I know the Camry Solara and FWD Rav4 use it also (but they have better synchros and different gear ratio and final drive). Still, the bellhousing design and all the other component has stayed the same.
    Last edited by torn; 10-24-2005 at 04:38 AM.

  14. #14

    Default

    VERY good write up! Have any pics?
    I'll get some pictures in a few days, when I'll have a digital camera available. The tranny is all opened, and the MR2 diff sits inside

    -Phil

  15. #15

    Default

    So then.. how much is this MR2 LSD differential.. and are the gears/syncro's the same in the AT trannies as the MR2 LSD trannies?

  16. #16

    Default

    What does the 90 AT come with an electronic or cable driven speedo?

  17. #17

    Default

    ALL Alltracs are mechanical speedos.
    GT4s, on the other hand, are electronic.
    But, all you have to do is swap out the speedo gear.

    To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

  18. #18

    Default

    So then.. how much is this MR2 LSD differential.. and are the gears/syncro's the same in the AT trannies as the MR2 LSD trannies?
    I bough an original used (but obviously in good condition) OEM MR2 LSD diff from Japan. Cost: 150$ US + 130 $ US shipping. Under 300$ US for an LSD is not alot

    Better (but cost more) is an aftermarket torsen LSD (entirely mechanical) that will give power to the tire that needs it the most by a certain %.

    TRD, Quaiffe and cusco and others makes them. I'm trying to get pictures and price but can't find any right now.

    Also, the final drive of the MR2 and all AWD tranny are the same, except for the ST185 RC. All of them have the same 5th gear, but have slightly different ratio for the other gears. Also the synchros are better if newer (don't know the years though).

    Here's a chart I made of the different speeds I will get with stock tire diameter (215-15-50) and the ST185 tranny with its final drive.

    Speed in KMH
    RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th reverse
    1000 7 13 19 26 34 7
    2000 15 26 37 51 68 14
    3000 22 39 56 77 102 21
    4000 29 52 75 102 136 28
    5000 37 65 93 128 170 35
    6000 44 78 112 153 204 42
    7000 51 91 131 179 238 49
    8000 59 104 149 205 272 56

    Speed in MPH
    RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th reverse
    1000 5 8 12 16 21 4
    2000 9 16 23 32 43 9
    3000 14 24 35 48 64 13
    4000 18 32 47 64 85 18
    5000 23 41 58 80 106 22
    6000 28 49 70 96 128 26
    7000 32 57 82 112 149 31
    8000 37 65 93 128 170 35

    The gears are about as close as an S53 tranny (get about 120 KMH in 5th @ 3500 RPM)

    This is good for the track

    In comparison, MR2 tranny have longer gear. here's the speed

    Speed in KMH
    RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th reverse
    1000 8 13 20 27 34 7
    2000 15 26 40 54 68 14
    3000 23 39 59 81 102 21
    4000 31 52 79 108 136 28
    5000 38 65 99 135 170 35
    6000 46 78 119 162 204 42
    7000 54 91 138 190 238 49
    8000 62 104 158 217 272 56

    Speed in MPH
    RPM 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th reverse
    1000 5 8 12 17 21 4
    2000 10 16 25 34 43 9
    3000 14 24 37 51 64 13
    4000 19 32 49 68 85 18
    5000 24 41 62 85 106 22
    6000 29 49 74 102 128 26
    7000 34 57 86 118 149 31
    8000 38 65 99 135 170 35

    The alltrac tranny is almost geared as the stock S53 tranny, which is good
    -Phil
    Last edited by torn; 10-25-2005 at 02:36 AM.

  19. #19

    Default

    I have converted my all-trac tranny in 2wd, and it work like a mr2 turbo tranny!!!

    this is bolt on! no modification...

    you can use the all-trac speedometer diff gear, but you need to modify it to fit the mr2 turbo diff

    and if I remember, you need to put the diff ring gear upside down to match de output shaft of the tranny, if you don'T the ring ring will hit the diff casing!

    if you guys need some shop manual images to complete you thread, I got access to all toyota shop manual... and I can get the part number for the mr2 diff cover (you can use camry v6 or rav4 2wd cover too, but the right axles seals come with the mr2 cover)

    for the diff, you can use a open diff from a camry v6 or rav4 4wd... but I recommend LSD

    also, for the axles, you can use camry 88-91 V6 jap spec axles, they are the same
    that's what I use on my celica, so I'm 100% sure it fit... and easier to find... (paid 50$ for the 2 axles with new boots from the scrap yard)

    If you have any other question, just ask!

    Boris
    Last edited by SpeedBro; 10-25-2005 at 03:06 AM.

  20. #20

    Default

    and if I remember, you need to put the diff ring gear upside down to match de output shaft of the tranny, if you don'T the ring ring will hit the diff casing!
    I'm pretty sure I put the ring gear on the MR2 diff in the same way as how it was on the alltrac. But you may be right

    also, for the axles, you can use camry 88-91 V6 jap spec axles, they are the same
    This is really good to know Will they fit open/aftermarket LSD, or for the OEM Toyota LSD ?

    you can use the all-trac speedometer diff gear, but you need to modify it to fit the mr2 turbo diff
    How did you do that ? I removed it from my Alltrac tranny, but it was too big for the MR2 diff, so I just ordered an MR2 one from the dealer. How did you modify it to fit ? its in plastic so I cant find an easy way to modify it ..

    -Phil

  21. #21

    Default

    --How did you do that ? I tried removing it from my Alltrac tranny, but it was too big for the MR2 diff, so I just ordered an MR2 one from the dealer. How did you midify it to fit ? its in plastic so I cant find an easy way to modify it ..--

    Mine was the same size, but the dents to secure the ring to the diff was in the wrong place, so I removed 1 dent to fit my mr2 diff

    --This is really good to know Will they fit open/aftermarket LSD, or for the OEM Toyota LSD ?--
    the driver axles will completely fit with a oem non-lsd diff, or aftermarket lsd

    the driver side stub shaft is the same for mr2 turbo non-lsd and camry v6 manual
    on the passenger, I use the mr2 turbo stub shaft (intermediate shaft) then I bolted the camry axle to it!

    Boris

  22. #22

    Default

    So putting a Torsen diff on is the best way to go? Also, with the electronic speedo gear, how do I wire that up to my speedometer then?

  23. #23

    Default

    So putting a Torsen diff on is the best way to go?
    Well, with my research and in my opinion, yes. If you plan on converting your Alltrac AWD tranny to FWD, you should follow up that tutorial. And the main advantage of doing that is, you can often use a free tranny that you don't know what to do with, and put a good torsen diff on it (that even MR2 tranny user does also).

    The second advantage is that the shifter forks point at the right direction.

    The third advantage is that you have done an AWD tranny conversion to FWD ... which is cool

    Main disadvantage is that you have to get parts here and there, instead of buying everything needed to swap the tranny in one shot .. but then again, cost may be a little different !

    Also, with the electronic speedo gear, how do I wire that up to my speedometer then?
    Every celica (ST,GT,GTS, Alltrac) and MR2 that I know of have all interchangeable electric or cable driven speedo meter. If your current speedometer is driven by a cable, and the tranny your swaping on have an electric plug on the tranny, all you have to do is unscrew that plug, and put back your mechanical plug on it.

    Pictures would help, but all you have to do is screw the plug (that has either a cable or a sockets that goes on) for your particular speedometer. Nothing hard

    -Phil
    Last edited by torn; 10-27-2005 at 06:44 AM.

  24. #24

    Default

    Wy can`t you just use the stock front axles??? and can you post witch axles that fitt??
    (i have a 89 camry with a 3sgte and a mr2turbo lsd gearbox that im going to use! but don`t know witch axles i can use!)

  25. #25

    Post

    ****Update****

    I took some random pics just so you guys can see whats going on


    Transfer aluminium cases. Attach to AWD bellhousing on diff passenger diff side. Contains the gear for the propeller shaft, the center viscous coupling, and the passenger extended drive axle.


    Another view of the transfer case. This is where you bolt it to the bellhousing (if you would keep your tranny with AWD). Instead of bolting this case, we bolt the MR2 differential cover.


    MR2 differential cover. This is to seal the tranny at the passenger's diff side.


    The front of the cover.


    The gear that drives the propeller shaft to the rear diff. It meshes with the center viscous coupling unit...


    The center viscous coupling unit. Without it, one wheel spins on an Alltrac and all power would go to that wheel (except if you had a torsen at the rear diff...)


    The front/center differential from the alltrac tranny. Both of those are open differential.


    You can see the FRONT open differential.


    Front open diff at the left, center open diff at the right.


    Exterior view of the front/center open differential of the AWD tranny.


    This open space is where the front/center diff goes in the bellhousing. This is also where you would put the MR2 diff.


    You can see where the speedometer plug get its speed from.


    Speedometer plug. Swap a mechanical (cable driven) or an electric speed sensor there...


    MR2 diff, driver side view. You can see the 16 bolts and the ring gear from the AWD center/front diff.


    Side view of the MR2 LSD diff, you can see the new speedometer drive I had to buy (I still need a C-clip for it !!)


    Speedometer drive closeup ...


    LSD MR2 diff passenger view.


    Side by side view of the MR2 speedometer drive and the alltrac speedometer drive .. Mine was different !


    AWD tranny, with MR2 diff inside ! I can turn the input shaft, and see the speedometer key turning at the plug housing


    This is a mess ! 5th gears, bearings, c-clip, ball/springs shift retainers, forks, reverse gear, oil cooler lines... I'm going to have some fun lol! Please don't do that and use some identified plastic bags instead...!

    That's it for now ...
    Last edited by torn; 10-28-2005 at 02:33 AM.

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

     

Similar Threads

  1. Lambo Door Installation Guide
    By James D. in forum 7th Generation
    Replies: 19
    Last Post: 09-30-2013, 05:52 PM
  2. The 3sgte Swap
    By defgeph in forum 6th Generation
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: 02-14-2011, 12:42 AM
  3. Step by step guide on converting AWD tranny to FWD!
    By torn in forum 6th Generation
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 10-23-2005, 09:32 PM
  4. Need sum help on my SWAP
    By GlHlOST in forum 5th Generation
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-25-2005, 09:07 PM
  5. mystery Tranny need help!
    By locker in forum General Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 05-17-2005, 01:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
Top Member List Chat Forum Search Contact Top