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  1. #1

    Default ignore my thread....

    Stock 5sfe celica

    TTE metal head gasket
    stock pistons ? coated ?
    stock rods ? Shot peened ?
    stock head
    clevite rod bearings
    95+ 3sfe/5sfe camshafts
    94+ jdm 3sfe intake manifold
    3sgte ECU (7000+ rpm redline)
    LS6 MAF
    Emanage
    EVO 550 cc/min injectors
    Resistor pack
    1st gen 3sgte single entry exhaust manifold
    T3/T04e 60 trim
    custom 3" dp
    custom 3" exhaust
    Supra SMIC or custom FMIC
    Skyline/300zx fuel pump
    Oil filter relocation kit
    VR4 oil cooler front mount in the bumper
    2 bar boost gauge
    oil pressure gauge
    wideband o2 sensor ?


    KYB shocks
    Intrax springs
    urethane motor mounts
    Fantom grip LSD insert with stiffest spring kit
    front and rear strut tower bars
    front and rear alltrac antisway bars
    camry final drive ? (160+mpg top speed?)

    rims? tires? BFGoodridge?

    Vented hood (CF?)
    Good front spoiler
    Good rear spoiler

    Cooling?
    TRD radiator cap
    redline water wetter
    10* colder thermostat
    smaller aluminum radiator (to fit the big turbo in the car)
    2005 C200 Kompressor sport
    K&N Filter, HKS 2.5" throttle pipe, Apexi WS2 Muffler, DIY Voltage Stabilizer, Intrax lowering springs, H&R rear 19mm sway bar, EBC redstuff pads, EBC 13" front rotors, Stop Tech front brake lines, VDO Boost gauge @ 7psi, Greddy Iridium Plugs, Sprintbooster
    On the way:HKS FCD's (12psi), Remus testpipe (2ndary cat), vortech 2:1 FMU

    my blog:
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  2. #2
    Junior Member T-VIS is on a distinguished road

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    Default

    sounds cool...one problem..why do people list stuff like a trd radiator cap as a mod? just strikes me wierd as why people whould do that
    "faster than a speeding ticket"

  3. #3

    Default

    it is a mod
    it prevents your coolant from boiling
    the cap is rated at a higher pressure and if something (heaven forbid happens) it takes a higher temeperature to cause your coolant to boil ...which means your system will not quite overheat at that point ... (good for extended track use mostly)...

    anyway... just thinking about stuff... nothing solid... i'm still trying to save the vr4 from itself

    -nuke

  4. #4

    Default

    here's the other side of the story:

    Fix tranny
    300mm output shaft
    RPS street Max clutch
    new motor (this one will not last ... it sucks )

    WRX 13T turbos X 2
    wrx 13T integration kit
    660cc/min injectors
    LS6 maf + MAF-Translator
    Custom FMIC + 2.5" or 3" piping
    g-force ecu upgrade putting my redline at 8300rpms.
    DN pre-cat eliminators or gutted precats
    wideband + logger

    Tien S-tech springs
    front and rear strut tower bars
    more grip (18X9?)

    fix front bumper
    kaze front lip
    99 combat spoiler
    2005 C200 Kompressor sport
    K&N Filter, HKS 2.5" throttle pipe, Apexi WS2 Muffler, DIY Voltage Stabilizer, Intrax lowering springs, H&R rear 19mm sway bar, EBC redstuff pads, EBC 13" front rotors, Stop Tech front brake lines, VDO Boost gauge @ 7psi, Greddy Iridium Plugs, Sprintbooster
    On the way:HKS FCD's (12psi), Remus testpipe (2ndary cat), vortech 2:1 FMU

    my blog:
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  5. #5

    Default

    i was gonna ask the same thing about the radiator cap

  6. #6

    Default

    It is true.. It is a mod, and it has performance values.

    BACK UP OFF NUKES GRILL DAWGZ!!
    2000 Absolute Red Celica GTS 6-Spd
    1991 Crimson Red MR2 Turbo


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    Originally Posted by surfergravity
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    This thread is gayer than Richard Simmons singing a duet with Elton John in a bath house.

  7. #7

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    Yup, a higher pressure radiator cap is a mod (and a worthwhile one at that). When the coolant is at a higher pressure, it takes more heat to boil it. When it boils, it doesn't have the ability to carry as much heat as it did when it wasn't, and the engine overheats.

    Examle-one of the formula cars at my school is often ran with 100C+ coolant temps (above boiling!) with no ill-effects or overheating whatsoever. Smaller radiator = less weight.

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    -Dave
    "Mechanical engineers do it with less energy and greater efficiency."

  8. #8

    Default

    axles... might need stronger axles.... hrm ...

    Why hasn't anybody tried to replace a 3sgte flapper AFM with a hotwire or MAF with an emanage...that's what i want to know.... can't be that hard...

    -nuke
    2005 C200 Kompressor sport
    K&N Filter, HKS 2.5" throttle pipe, Apexi WS2 Muffler, DIY Voltage Stabilizer, Intrax lowering springs, H&R rear 19mm sway bar, EBC redstuff pads, EBC 13" front rotors, Stop Tech front brake lines, VDO Boost gauge @ 7psi, Greddy Iridium Plugs, Sprintbooster
    On the way:HKS FCD's (12psi), Remus testpipe (2ndary cat), vortech 2:1 FMU

    my blog:
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  9. #9

    Default

    now i remember what i forgot....

    scrap the 5sfe idea.... i have a good new idea.... 2.4 Litre vvti motor out of a camry

    vvti will give good throttle responce, and good breathing up top as well...even with a mild camshaft.... and the 2.4 is a good displacement bump... the combination of both should give some really nice spool to the massive turbo.....

    i like this idea better....

    -nuke
    2005 C200 Kompressor sport
    K&N Filter, HKS 2.5" throttle pipe, Apexi WS2 Muffler, DIY Voltage Stabilizer, Intrax lowering springs, H&R rear 19mm sway bar, EBC redstuff pads, EBC 13" front rotors, Stop Tech front brake lines, VDO Boost gauge @ 7psi, Greddy Iridium Plugs, Sprintbooster
    On the way:HKS FCD's (12psi), Remus testpipe (2ndary cat), vortech 2:1 FMU

    my blog:
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  10. #10

    Default

    http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/1...8/023885-E.jpg

    hrm...looks like a 5sfe gen 3 doesn't it...scary

    -nuke
    2005 C200 Kompressor sport
    K&N Filter, HKS 2.5" throttle pipe, Apexi WS2 Muffler, DIY Voltage Stabilizer, Intrax lowering springs, H&R rear 19mm sway bar, EBC redstuff pads, EBC 13" front rotors, Stop Tech front brake lines, VDO Boost gauge @ 7psi, Greddy Iridium Plugs, Sprintbooster
    On the way:HKS FCD's (12psi), Remus testpipe (2ndary cat), vortech 2:1 FMU

    my blog:
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  11. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nuclearhappines
    axles... might need stronger axles.... hrm ...

    Why hasn't anybody tried to replace a 3sgte flapper AFM with a hotwire or MAF with an emanage...that's what i want to know.... can't be that hard...

    -nuke

    its prolly because the voltage characteristics are different... I believe HKS sold a converter but it has since been discontinued
    Mike

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    1994 Toyota Celica ST
    3rd Gen 3SGTE

  12. #12
    Ultimo Miembro Fantástico Gigantesco ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD has much to be proud of ChrisD's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by nuclearhappines
    axles... might need stronger axles.... hrm ...

    Why hasn't anybody tried to replace a 3sgte flapper AFM with a hotwire or MAF with an emanage...that's what i want to know.... can't be that hard...

    -nuke
    Celica AFM voltage is 5-0V instead of 0-5V. I think it just comes down to the amount of effort makes it not really worth it compared to other systems. There are devices out there that can allow for AFM removal, such as the SMT6 or SMT7. These require a lot of work to pull of though.
    1988 ST165 2.2L @ 370awhp
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  13. #13

    Default

    chris, an inverting amplifier with a some DC bias will change a 0-5 to a 5-0 and visa versa.
    costs <5 dollars to put the whole thing together.... that takes care of the direction of the signal... then as far as differences between what the flapper would read and what a hotwire would read....well you need to spend time tuning it using the emanage/safc/....etc

    not plug and play... but not too difficualt

    -nuke

  14. #14
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    Default

    Actually yah you are right it wouldn't be too tough at all. Really you just need to spend some time recording and taking note of the signals that the AFM gives you under different conditions, then using a MAP sensor as the input, replicate those signals by altering what the Emanage / SMT6 spits out into the ECU.

    Actually not that tough. It would be much easier to do this under the Emanage / SMT6 software, so that you dont have to develop something on your own. If you want to do the voltage invertor method, you just need a way to do tuning afterwards, to make sure the fuel/ignition are optimal.

    Not overwhelmingly difficult, someone just needs to take the time to do it!
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  15. #15
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    Default

    I think I might try this sometime soon as a project...
    1988 ST165 2.2L @ 370awhp
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  16. #16

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    this was supposed to be a pipe dream, not a technical thread but oh well...

    chris yeah not a map sensor... but a corvette, camaro, ford hotwire sensor ...zero restrictions... measures airflow directly....

    here's my ckt...



    this will take your 0-5 from a typical LS6 maf and turn it into a 5-0 range... but then the maf reads upto 600hp i think and the afm reads up to 450? ... so you need the SAFC/emanage...etc for correction... or if we figure out a pattern we can add ratios into the circuit to give it a baseline correction....

    -nuke

  17. #17

    Default

    need to know ranges
    offset voltages
    bandwidth (to choose op amps)
    current draw (to find resistor values or add a current amplification stage if nessecary)

  18. #18

    Default

    ps: if you put a 3sgte AFM and a hotwire MAF on a flow bench and you get me the voltage vs Airflow readings for both devices ... i can build you a more accurate circuit. As long as things are linear i can do it in a few minutes... if things are not linear then it will take longer to produce the correct circuit.....


    plus if we have both i can give you a circuit and possibly have it designed for a specific injector.... since you now have the ability to read up to 600hp worth of air then it makes sense to design this thing to be plug and play with something like 550s-720cc/min injectors with 0 correction required at the ECU. Of course as with any piggy back solution this is going to screw with (advance your timing) while keeping your fueling correct.

    -nuke

  19. #19
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    Default

    sorry for sealing your pipe dream

    moving to engine management

    jk

    Yeah I can see how this would work for people with only a SAFC. I'm going to have to look up how the hotwire maf operates. Need to see if there's any advantage to using one over a MAP sensor. Most standalone EMS's use MAP. Since I have the SMT6 I dont need the wiring schematic to do the hotwire conversion necessarily, but, it would be quite interesting to develop none the less.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by nuclearhappines
    ps: if you put a 3sgte AFM and a hotwire MAF on a flow bench and you get me the voltage vs Airflow readings for both devices ... i can build you a more accurate circuit. As long as things are linear i can do it in a few minutes... if things are not linear then it will take longer to produce the correct circuit.....
    -nuke
    I wish I had a flow bench to test this. I can measure voltage based on turbo pressure, but thats about it. My SMT6 is able to log the AFM values. I have found that at my power level, the thing is 98% wide open at WOT. Not sure if it is possible to get it to 100% (0 volts).

    I dont think it would be quite linear. More and more airflow would be required to open up the flapper the more it opens.
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  21. #21

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    how a hotwire works


    there is a wire that runs across teh housing. Current is drawn through the wire to heat it up. The temperature of the wire controls the current running through it. So the system tries to maintain a constant temperature....

    When air flows over the wire it cools it, to maintain the same temp, more current is allowed to run through the wire. Coincidentally, if colder air runs over the wire, it also cools it...and more current is allowed to run through the wire to heat it up.

    The current in the wire is related to both the temperature of the air coming in as well as the amount of air coming in ... and thefore if the ECU sees this current then it knows how much air is flowing through and that figure has already been corrected for temperature given the nature of the device.

    A map measures pressure/vacuum in a chamber.
    So if you know both the volume of the chamber, and the temperature of the air coming in your able to calculate from the the map , the temp, and the volume to extrapolate the volume of air coming in. So i can't make you a circuit that translates map to AFM... it wouldn't be accureate because the ECU would be blind to temeprature changes at the same vacuum / boost levels.

    The flapper door is more stupid... as far as i know... air comes in, it pushes the door open... the angle of the door gives rise to the voltage. Voltage is linear to the angle of the door. The amount of airflow is linear with the open area... which is not linear with the angle of the flapper...is it ....hrm.... i guess it's proprtional to (1-cos theta) .... so we'd have to build a cosine into the amplifier circuit

    -nuke
    2005 C200 Kompressor sport
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  22. #22
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    Cool info. Didnt know anything about the hotwire.

    Well then, to do a MAP conversion you'd either need to leave the air temp sensor in the intake stream, or device a way to replicate the signal. I've never taken the temp sensor out of the AFM so I dont know how it looks or how difficult it would be to mount and not be a restriction. But you'd need that in there still.

    Either way, the stock ECU would still need that intake air temp signal or I think you'd get an error code.
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  23. #23

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    Yeah i don't know much about the air temp sensor on the 3sgte...

    but since the hotwire corrects the airflow due to temperature changes then you CAN theoretically run a constant voltage to the 3sgte ECU pin associated with the temp sensor, and run the corrected airflow signal from the hotwire to the AFM pin on the ecu....

    i'll look up a cosine circuit when i get home... ...

    as long as the 3s ecu doesn't have any special features triggered by the temp sensor then its ok to do so

    -nuke
    2005 C200 Kompressor sport
    K&N Filter, HKS 2.5" throttle pipe, Apexi WS2 Muffler, DIY Voltage Stabilizer, Intrax lowering springs, H&R rear 19mm sway bar, EBC redstuff pads, EBC 13" front rotors, Stop Tech front brake lines, VDO Boost gauge @ 7psi, Greddy Iridium Plugs, Sprintbooster
    On the way:HKS FCD's (12psi), Remus testpipe (2ndary cat), vortech 2:1 FMU

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  24. #24
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    The 3s ECU uses air temp as an adjustment factor. It determines the maps based on airflow, then will make a + / - correction to timing based on the temperature of the intake air.

    It is just a thermistor placed right in the intake stream. The circuit is very simple. Based on the diagrams from autoshop101.com it looks like it is a fairly small unit, and might be pretty easy to install just inside the air filter. I dont know how tough it is to remove from the AFM though.

    Circuit is simple:

    ECU THA pin ----------- sensor in --- sensor out -------------- ECU earth
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  25. #25
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    I want to take out my AFM SOOOO badly.. I don't want a standalone or anything, I just want my AFM OUT!

    So I started a new thread about it.. maybe we can get something going here. This would be a very important mod.

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