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  1. #1

    Default Front and Rear 5th gen disk swap thread --- condensed info!

    I didnt mean to steal anyones hard work so if you have a problem with this please just let me know and ill delete it I went off Galcobar's idea and condensed all the info... let me know if I missed anything

    If you want credit for the information that you provided just let me know

    Initial Thread started by: Adrian Avgerinos <---- all the credit goes to him
    Original discussion link: http://www.celicatech.com/forums/sho...7&page=2&pp=40

    Abstract

    The first series, 90-91, of the 5th gen 5SFE powered celicas (ST184) utilizes rear drum and 255mm front disc brakes. Later model celica had all around disk brakes and luckly these will bolt right up


    Purchase calipers to match the year of the rotors you are buying. In my case I bought 91 GT-S rear brake calipers and pads, and I think my e-brake assembly was from a 91 GT-S. In the front I bought 92 GT-S rotors and calipers.

    Parts List:

    Front:
    Complete calipers
    Brake Rotors

    Rear (essentially the whole knuckle detached from the strut):
    1) calipers
    2) rotors
    3) caliper brackets (usually easier to detach these with the calipers from the backing plate)
    4) backing plate w/ e-brake assembly
    5) hose (soft line from caliper is different from the drum brakes)
    6) O-ring (must replace when removing hub to swap backing plates)
    7) L and R brake cables. (deatch from under the car . The cable must be turned 90 degrees, so it is in a straight line with the bracket's length, and the slot cut into the upper portion of the bracket. The posts at the end of the cable can then be pushed up, with the cable sliding through the slot.(see diagram))




    Installation

    Everything bolts up. Literally. Procedure is as follows:

    1)Jack up and support car
    2)Remove wheels
    3) Disconnect e-brake cables from car
    ----a) disconect it from inside the drum assembly if you dont have new e-brake cables
    ----b) disconnect it from underneath the car if you do have new e-brake cables
    4)Disconnect brake hoses from car
    5)Unbolt knucles from suspension arms and strut
    6)Bolt up new spindles and new brake hoses and e-brake cables
    ----a)If you are using the drum brake e-brake lines i would reccomend putting the disk brake backing plate onto the knlucle attached to the car with just one bolt and then go to town on getting the e-brake cable in place (i have a few tips and tricks (daklieb) e-mail (daklieb@gmail.com) me if you want)
    ----b) If you are using new cables or disk brake e-brake cables dont forget to cross the two at the handle under the car, so that the L cable attaches to the R slot in the bracket, and the R brake cable to the L side of the bracket. Otherwise your cables could bind.)
    7)check isntall of pads and rotors and adjust e-brake if needed.
    8)bleed brakes
    9)Put wheels back on car.
    10)Lower car and test drive

    Alternate Installation
    (only if you have identical knluces and axel hubs, which you should):

    1) Jack up car and put block under your front wheels
    2) Remove your wheel
    3) Disconnect e-brake from car
    ----a) disconect it from inside the drum assembly if you dont have new e-brake lines
    ----b) disconnect it from underneath the car if you do have new e-brake lines
    4)disconnect brake hoses
    5)Remove the four bolt that hold the axle hub to the knuckle on both the old and new knucles
    6)Remove the axle hub and then the drum brake backing plate
    7)Reattach e-brake lines
    ----a)If you are using the drum brake lines i would reccomend putting the disk brake backing plate onto the knlucle attached to the car with just one bolt and then go to town on getting the e-brake cable in place (i have a few tips and tricks (daklieb) e-mail (daklieb@gmail.com) me if you want)
    ----b) If you are using new cables or disk brake e-brake cables dont forget to cross the two at the handle under the car, so that the L cable attaches to the R slot in the bracket, and the R brake cable to the L side of the bracket. Otherwise your cables could bind.)
    8)Install the disk brake backing plate onto the the knucle and then the axle hub
    ----a) either old or new axle hub depending on which you have more faith in
    ----b) make sure you get a new O-ring that sits inside the axel hub when you do this (you will see it fall out when you take the axel hubs off)
    9)Attach the brake cables
    10) Check to make sure the e-brake is tight and adjust as needed
    ----a) to adjust the e-brake remove the centre console to access the adjuster. On the right side at the base of the handle there will be a threaded rod with a flat nut and a long nut. The top nut locks the position of the lower nut. Loosen the locknut (top) while holding the adjusting nut (bottom), then turn the adjusting nut until the handle travels 4-7 clicks when pulled, then tighten the locknut onto the adjusting nut
    11) Grab a friend and bleed the brakes
    12)Put the wheel back on and go for a test drive!!



    You end up with this:


    I opted for caliper paint from G2. Unneeded but I like the fact that my parts won't rust cuz rust ain't pretty.

    For brake pads I am using Hawk Performance HPS pads in the front and Axxis Metalmaster pads in the rear. On the track I will be using a separate set of rotors with Hawk Performance Black pads.

    For fluid, I chose ATE Superblue. Dry bp of 536F and wet bp of 396F. More info here:

    http://www.raceshopper.com/ate_brake_fluid.shtml


    COST:

    It depends on how much it costs for the junkyard parts. If you purchase complete rear hub assemblies with brakes you could probably do it for pretty cheap. I had to purchase most of the e-brake brackets and springs so the entire cost including new pads, rotors, and calipers came to around $300.

    I was able to pick up my rear disk assembly (knuckle, bracket, caliper) for $100 shipped and then spent about another $100 getting all new pads and rotors

    RANDOM QUESTIONS:

    Q: Does the caliper bracket mount onto the backing plate (the part on which the parking brake assembly is fixed) or the knuckle that mounts on the strut?
    A: The bracket mounts to a stamped piece of metal that is bolted to the knuckle/spindle.

    Q: Is the knuckle/axle carrier (see diagram) is the same for both disc and drum setups?
    A: the knuckle/axle carrier is the same for both disc and drum setups.

    Q: Is it necessary to change out the front brakes along with the back? I know that the front do most of the braking and that they will be smaller, but will it matter that much?
    A:"Necessary"? Depends on your definition of the word. Will the car work and will the car stop under normal braking conditions? Yes. I suspect if you change the rears without changing the front however, you may have an issue with the brake biasing as the rears might lock up before the fronts under high performance conditions. It's your call.

    Q: Will the rear knlucle and hub be the same?
    A: Rear knucles and hubs on 90-93 GT/GTs are the exact same, but generally it's easier to purchase a used knuckle with all the brake parts already attached.

    Q: Is the e-brake bracket that attaches to the hole shown in the picuture the same for drums and disks


    A: No. This is why you have to get the e-brake cables along with the rest of the e-brake setup from the same car -- unless you're willing to spend some time with a Dremel and re-shape the cast piece on the drum brake cables so that it fits the disc brake backing plate (or reshape the hole in the disk brake backing plate to fid the cast peice).

    Q: The e-brake line off of the drum brakes seems to be longer will it still work?
    A: There hasnt been a set answer on this but I did use the e-brake cable from the drum brakes and it seems to work so far though it look like it was longer and didnt fit as nicely as it was suppose to. (i will keep you updated if anything goes wrong with it)


    TECHNICAL STUFF:

    Also, I have found out the MC bore diameters for the various celicas for those that are interested:

    1990 Toyota Celica GT 15/16"
    1992 Toyota Celica GT-S 15/16" (1" with ABS)
    1990-93 Toyota Celica Alltrac 15/16" (1" with ABS)

    What I don't know is whether the brake proportioning valve is different for the different models. I suspect the BGB will have that information.

    ---------------------------

    Brake spec info

    * Front Brakes
    90-91 Rotors (GT, Convertible, GT-S)
    Brembo Part number: 25439
    Overall Diameter: 255mm

    92-93 Rotors (GT-S, GT, and all ST185 USDM)
    Brembo Part number: 25440
    Overall Diameter: 277mm

    * Rear Brakes
    90-91 Drums (non-GTS)
    Brembo Part number: 21069

    92-93 Rotors (All GT-S)
    Brembo Part number: 25160
    Overall Diameter: 269mm

    ----------------------------------

    Comparisons between fifth- and sixth-gen rotors -- note the centrebore difference. That's why you have to use a rotor of the same generation as the hub.

    Rear discs on 90-93 GTS and 92-93 GT were 269 mm (90-91 GT got rear discs as an option). Front rotors on 90-91 GT/GTS were 255mm, up to 277mm in 92-93 (same size as All-trac rotors, but w/out the dual-piston calipers).

    Front rotors on 94-99 GT were 275mm, but were 3 mm thicker than the 92-93 GT/GTS rotors, and 6 mm thicker than the 90-91 GT/GTS. Rear discs on 94-95 GT were the same dimensions as the fifth-gen rears (except for the centrebore), but in 95-on they went from 10 mm thick to 9 mm thick, though retaining the 269 mm diametre.

    For 5SFE-powered Celicas:
    Front rotors
    90-91 255 mm diametre, 22 mm thick, 54 mm centrebore
    92-93 277 mm, 25 mm, 54 mm
    94-99 275 mm, 28 mm, 55 mm

    Rear rotors
    90-93 269 mm, 10 mm, 54 mm
    94-95 269 mm, 10 mm, 55 mm
    95-99 269 mm, 9 mm, 55 mm

    For 4AFE-powered Celicas
    Front rotors
    90-91 238 mm, 22 mm, 54 mm
    92-93 255 mm, 25 mm, 54 mm

    Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find sizes for the 7AFE Celica.
    Last edited by Shadowlife25; 01-10-2009 at 01:06 AM.

  2. #2

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by daklieb View Post
    ....The first series, 90-91, of the 5th gen 5SFE powered celicas (ST184) utilizes rear drum and 255mm front disc brakes. Later model celica had all around disk brakes and luckly these will bolt right up ...

    my 1990 ST184 w/5SFE has 4 wheel disc brakes, I bought it used, but I thought the GT-S of that year came with 4 wheel disc's...please correct me if I'm wrong.

  3. #3

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    GTS is a ST184.

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    Originally Posted by The Captain

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    Originally Posted by Murgatroy
    Chaos pulls on Marshall's GT.
    But he has a free hand to grope boobies while he drives....

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    Originally Posted by andy
    so gay he cant even drive straight.

  4. #4

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    It was an option in 90-91, became standard equipment in 92-93 IIC.

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  5. #5

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    Dose anyone know if the e brake cables form a 6th gen would work for this swap?
    1990 GT Coupe.


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  6. #6
    I'M KILLING IT k.beaty is on a distinguished road
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    Default

    Are the front calipers the same on a 90-91 GTS as a 92-93 GTS? I'm going to be upgrading my 1990 GT-S brakes to '93 brakes. I know I'll need the bigger rotor, and caliper bracket. But can I use the 1990 Calipers on the 1993 brackets, or will i need 92-93 calipers as well? Keep in mind, this is all for the front.
    Kyle

    1990 GT-S - Diamond wheel OG

  7. #7

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    u will need the 92-93 calipers as will
    R.I.P Cherry Bomb (1990 Celica ST)


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  8. #8
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    I suggest reading the linked thread, it's the original and has more comprehensive information in the first post, though the rest of the thread is largely summed up here. However, I'd point out in the first post of both threads:

    Purchase calipers to match the year of the rotors you are buying.
    Men call cars "she" because it gives them at least one female they can claim to understand
    --------------------------
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  9. #9
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    Man, I need to redo this sticky. Adrian and I are far too picky about spelling and grammar.
    Men call cars "she" because it gives them at least one female they can claim to understand
    --------------------------
    Mazda Velocity Red paint; Eibach Pro-Kit; KYB GR-2; rear disc brake conversion; Suspension Techniques rear anti-sway bar; sixth-gen suspension arm conversion; Bosch E-code H4 housings

  10. #10

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    idk why you guys are saying remove the knuckle i didnt have to when i did my rear disk conversion . i took off the drum break assembly and put the rear disk assembly from a 92 celica gt convert on took about an hour .

  11. #11
    n00b yotaboy91 is on a distinguished road

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    this isnt doable on a ST is it?

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by yotaboy91 View Post
    this isnt doable on a ST is it?
    If you have a four lug ST, then you'd need to get the hubs and convert to five lug... which actually decreases your wheel selection, but gives you that vaunted fifth lug.

    If you have a five lug ST, then yes.

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    Originally Posted by The Captain

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    Originally Posted by Murgatroy
    Chaos pulls on Marshall's GT.
    But he has a free hand to grope boobies while he drives....

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    Originally Posted by andy
    so gay he cant even drive straight.

  13. #13
    I'll be the little spoon KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey has a reputation beyond repute KoreanJoey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by grimmythereaper View Post
    u will need the 92-93 calipers as will
    This is not true. The brackets are the difference between the 90-91 and 92-93.

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  14. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by KoreanJoey View Post
    This is not true. The brackets are the difference between the 90-91 and 92-93.
    My calipers were different. They had different PN and there were some visible differences. I swapped both calipers and brackets.

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  15. #15
    n00b yotaboy91 is on a distinguished road

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    Shes 4 lug ohwell i need to fucus on finding a 9th gen f150 instead of modding this car

  16. #16
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    Drum-in-disc parking brake cables:
    CABLE ASSY, PARKING BRAKE, NO.1 46410‑20340 (that would be the short section from the parking brake handle, which does not have to be changed)
    CABLE ASSY, PARKING BRAKE, NO.2 46420‑20290 (right)
    CABLE ASSY, PARKING BRAKE, NO.3 46430‑20390 (left)

    Rockauto.com has Beck/Arnley cables listed according to the Toyota part number (enter it without a dash and don't specify a manufacturer) for $38 each, versus the $67 for Toyota parts from Lithia Toyota.
    Men call cars "she" because it gives them at least one female they can claim to understand
    --------------------------
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  17. #17

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    Thanx Gal

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