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RallyK
08-03-2005, 12:17 AM
Following the SCCA rules.. I'm going to keep my car in the 2wd production class. I can get a better standing within that class. If I'm going to modify it I'm going to modify it a lot and I don't currently have that kinda money to spend.

Need:
Snell 2000+ Helmet M or SA but I'll just go ahead and get SA because I already have a motorcycle helmet.

I'm going to get some massive mud flaps just to protect the paint a bit (not a big concern but they're cheap anyway).

Intake must remain stock. I may be able to change exhaust past the cat but it's not worth it because all i'd be able to do is stick on a different muffler (must meet noise regulations). if i'm going to spend the money on mods i'm going to get an entire exhaust.

Snow tires are legal. I'll have to take a look at some snowtires to see what might be best. Rally tires are not allowed for production class.

Everything else is legal like regular seats and belts but eventually it won't hurt to get racing seats and harness.

I have plenty of spare tires already mounted on steelies that I can bring and a good jack. I have a pretty good tool set that is mobile...

I know i'm forgetting stuff... what's your 2 cents?

Has anyone here RallyXed a celica? what are the strengths and weaknesses?
I'm thinking that my 6gen might have a small disadvantage because it's heavier and a little bigger than the golfs and civics. I'm thinking the steering could be a little too loose and the suspension. I could get strut bars but i'm still trying to see if they're legal for the production class. One rule book said it was legal, the other said no.

Tips? Comments? Post away!

RickyNo
08-03-2005, 12:51 AM
I once had Yokohama Guardex 720 (http://www.yokohamatire.ca/en/products/pcw.htm#gx720) on my civic and they were nice. Some steering work made the ass slide, by the way the tire print is, then stepping on the gaz made them stick to the road. They were (are?) also used in snow rallies by many drivers.

RallyK
08-03-2005, 03:20 AM
thanks dogge

Murgatroy
08-03-2005, 12:45 PM
Asphault or Dirt? I am gonna presume dirt since you want snow tires?

My advice is the same for anything though, practice practice practice.

I grew up in the mountains playing on gravel roads and asphault as well. With a front wheel drive car you are not gonna have to worry about your ass end kicking out if you get overpowered. You can actually use that to your advantage. You will stay in 2nd and 3rd gear most of the time, I almost promise it. Try as hard as you can to keep your car in the powerband all the time, while accerlerating and decellerating. ALways try and have it over 3k that way you won't have to worry about throttle response or engine lag. Use your brakes sparingly, the engine is what you will want to slow you down the most, if you rely on the brakes you will over heat them and then you will be in trouble, ask Josh (Ded) and Dustin (InitialD93) what it smells like and the fear when you overheat your brakes, I almost took both of them out with me when everyone decided to bow up and stop on a cruise one night. That is not fun.

I am not sure about your driving skill level, or your habits. I know you deliver food and spend a lot of time behind the wheel, but playing speed racer on the streets and actually getting down and dirty on a track without distractions are two different things. If this is gonna be your first one, don't try to win. Try to finish. You will then have something to start from, improve on.

Again this is something that text on a page is not gonne help you with much at all. If you could ride along and watch then maybe I could teach you something. If I didn't scare you to death. But practice is gonna be your biggest help. Practice as much as you can, if the only way to practice is at sanctioned events, don't worry about score, just try and improve on yourself. Eventually you will get there. But don't get silly and practice on public open roads. ;)

Good luck, let us know how it goes.

RallyK
08-03-2005, 12:59 PM
Murgatroy! I'm glad you're still around. Thanks for your response.

I grew up in the country on dirt mountain roads as well so this is like a daily drive. I have done two rallycross runs in my friend's car, but this is my first in my own car. The event is on the 27th of this month so i have plenty of time to practice.
Practice practice practice -I agree!
Not planning on getting a standing with this race, just planning on finishing. :) I'm off to work, I'll check back later.

alltracman78
08-10-2005, 03:46 AM
You have to keep your whole stock intake? ouchie.
Unless the 6th g is different, the only cat is right after the manifold. Leaving the whole rest of the exhaust, from the engine back to mess with.
5th g comes stock with a strut brace.
How much can you strip out of the inside?
How much can you mod the engine/drivetrain?
I hate fwd on dirt/gravel/slippery surface.

Galcobar
08-10-2005, 07:00 AM
A thought -- change the muffler to a proper straight-through design, and get a universal so that when you do get your full exhaust, you can transfer it over. Only real issue will be getting a pipe reducer to mate from the stock 2" piping to the larger (assuming 2.25") muffler, which isn't a big deal. You get some improved exhaust flow now, meet noise requirements, and won't be spending money twice.

Murgatroy
08-10-2005, 12:46 PM
I don't think she is gonna be running the Celica anytime soon though now guys, not since her buy fell through for the GT. That is why the thread died. We could keep it up as a theory thread though, but we need to know the guidlines and specs.

alltracman78
08-10-2005, 12:56 PM
ahh.
Thanks for the info. :)

RallyK
08-11-2005, 07:24 PM
yes, that particular deal fell through, but i'm not giving up on getting a 6gen gt to rallyx. I've been sitting on ebay since august 2nd looking for a gt. I made a few calls. There's one i'm interested in but.. honestly... it's too clean.. I wouldn't want to stick it in the dirt.

Scca guidelines will be posted next.

And ABSOLUTELY, I would love this to be a theory thread even if I don't have the car right now. Back in a min with specs.

RallyK
08-11-2005, 07:33 PM
Adobe files:

These are the official scca rules and regulations.
http://www.scca.org/_filelibrary/File/2005rallycrossrules.pdf

These are the official scca (new england) rules and regulations. I think they say the same thing with minor differences.
http://www.ner.org/Rally/rallyx/05/NER%20%20Supplemental%20RallyCross%20Regulations%2 02005%201_13_1.pdf

Murgatroy
08-11-2005, 07:34 PM
Schweet, I will read those in a bit and get back to you. :D

RallyK
08-11-2005, 07:56 PM
National SCCA Rules/regulations on STREET STOCK (which is the class I want to stick with for right now)

A. Rear Wheel Drive Street Stock 2 wheel drive-SSR
Front Wheel Drive Street Stock 2 wheel drive-SSF
All Wheel Drive Street Stock-SSA
In the Street Stock 2 and 4 wheel drive classes
1. All Cars must be equipped as came from the manufacturer,
with only factory-installed and port-installed option packages.
Options that were only part of a package must be present with
the entire package. Complete option packages may be installed
after purchase of the vehicle.
2. Tires must be DOT approved. Snow tires are legal. No
studded tires are permitted. Tires may not interfere with any
parts of the car (fenders, fender liners, suspension, etc)
Rally tires are prohibited. A tire should be considered a “Rally
tire” if it meets any of the following criteria:
a. It does not carry a DOT stamp.
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b. It is marked “For competition only”, “Not for street
use”or similar verbiage.
c. It carries a UTQG tread wear rating less than 100.
d. It is modified or altered from its original tread pattern in
anyway.
e. Falls in the following list of recognized “rally tires”
1) Kuhmo: R700 Ecsta
2) Falken: Azenis RS-01D
3) Michelin: “M”, “N”, “Z”, “FB”, & “C” series
4) Pirelli: “T” series
5) Colway: Rally MS (RMS) & Rally Plus (RP)
6) Silverstone: S55, S505, S525, S575, & S585
7) Yokahama: A031, A034, A035, A036, WR26, &
MT14
8) Maxsport: RB1, RB2, RB3, RB3D2 & A,
RB3D2.9 Ultra, RB3D2N, RB4, RB5, HAKKA,
BARTRACK DIAMOND
9) Black Rocket: BR 22, 33, 44,41, 50, 60,70, 80,90
3. Wheel diameter, width, and offset are free.
4. The additions of protective equipment are allowed with the
following exceptions.
a. The modifications must only provide protection to the
car and/or occupants and provide no performance
advantage.
b. Mudflaps and underbody chassis protection materials
are free.
c. Driver restraints and roll cage may be added. Sunroofs
may be fixed shut.
d. Additional or replacement hood and trunk latches are
permitted. All latch systems must be secured.
5. Dress-up and convenience items which do not give a
performance advantage or reduce the weight of the car or
weigh less than the standard part they are replacing are
allowed, i.e. shift knobs, pedal covers.
6. ABS and/or traction control systems may be electronically
disabled but not removed.
7. Vehicle lights may be replaced with alternate bulbs and
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housing. Auxiliary lights may be added. The total
number of lights shall not be less than as standard.
8. Seats are free but must be solidly mounted.
9. Fuel may be any type of unleaded or diesel fuel
commonly available at the pump. Alternative fuels must
be pre-approved by the RallyCross steward. No alcohol
fuels or nitrous oxide allowed.

RallyK
08-11-2005, 08:00 PM
And just FYI, These are all the car classes::


VEHICLE CLASSIFICATION

Rear Wheel Drive Street Stock 2 wheel drive-SSR
Front Wheel Drive Street Stock 2 wheel drive-SSF
All Wheel Drive Street Stock-SSA

Rally Street Rear Wheel Drive-RSR
Rally Street Front Wheel Drive-RSF
Rally Street All Wheel Drive-RSA

Rally Prepared Two Wheel Drive-RP2
Rally Prepared All Wheel Drive-RP4

Open Two Wheel Drive-Rally Mod-RM2
Open All Wheel Drive-Rally Mod-RM4

Murgatroy
08-11-2005, 08:01 PM
That actually give ALOT of room to move around in...

RallyK
08-11-2005, 08:04 PM
But here are the car classes for New England:

Vehicle Classes
2.1 The following classes are considered NER championship classes:+
4M - Modified AWD/4WD
4P - Production AWD/4WD
FM – Modified front wheel drive
FP – Production front wheel drive
RW – Rear wheel drive
2.2 EX – Exhibition Class

RallyK
08-11-2005, 08:06 PM
And here are the guide lines for NEW ENGLAND scca rallyx

Production vs Modified
The production classes are meant to be exactly that; vehicles as
produced by the manufacturer. Defined below are items that will cause a vehicle to be classed as modified.
3.1 Tires must be DOT approved. Snow tires are legal. Tires may not interfere with any
parts of the car (fenders, fender liners, suspension, etc)
3.1.1 Rally tires will require a vehicle to be placed in a modified class. A tire should be considered a “Rally tire” if it meets the following criteria:
3.1.1a. It does not carry a DOT stamp.
3.1.1b. It is marked “For competition only”, “Not for street use”or similar verbiage.
3.1.1c. It carries a UTQG tread wear rating less than 100.
3.1.1d. It is modified or altered from its original tread pattern in anyway.
3.1.1e. Falls in the following list of recognized “rally tires”
1) Kuhmo: R700 Ecsta
2) Falken: Azenis RS-01D
3) Michelin: “M”, “N”, “Z”, “FB”, & “C” series
4) Pirelli: “T” series
5) Colway: Rally MS (RMS) & Rally Plus (RP)
6) Silverstone: S55, S505, S525, S575, & S585
7) Yokahama: A031, A034, A035, A036, WR26, & MT14 New England Region Supplemental RallyCross Regulations Created on 1/13/2005 10:33:00 AM Revision 2, - 2 -
8) Maxsport: RB1, RB2, RB3, RB3D2 & A, RB3D2.9 Ultra, RB3D2N, RB4, RB5, HAKKA, BARTRACK DIAMOND
9) Black Rocket: BR 22, 33, 44,41, 50, 60,70, 80,90
3.1.2. Wheel diameter, width, and offset are free.
3.1.3 Tire studs.
3.1.3.a DOT legal tire studs, inserted into new factory studdable tires are legal
in modified and exhibition classes only.
3.1.3.b Use of studded tires will be limited to winter events. Event entry forms
will specify if studded tires are legal for use at that event.
3.1.3.c Metal studs shall be inserted only in a new tire or a newly recapped tire
which has “pin holes” molded in the tread into which metal studs are to be inserted. Studs shall not be inserted in a tire after the tire has been driven on.
3.1.3.d Studs shall only be inserted into manufactured “pin holes”. No additional
holes are to be made, or other studs added.
3.2 Shocks: no restrictions
3.3 Springs:
3.3.1 Replacing stock springs with stiffer springs in the stock configuration is allowed.
3.3.2 Coil-over conversions are considered modifications.
3.4 Brakes:
3.4.1 Brake pad material is not restricted.
3.4.2 Caliper and/or rotor upgrades are considered modifications.
3.5 Air intake:
3.5.1 Stock OEM filter elements may be changed, but OEM filter housing must remain
the same.
3.5.2 Cold air intake systems are a modification.
3.5.3 Addition of non-stock intakes, blow off valves, and intercoolers is a modification.
3.6 Performance chips: hard to detect, based on honor system, a modification.
3.7 Weight reduction: not allowed beyond floor mats, stereo equipment, hub caps, trim rings,
spare tires and tools.
3.8 Exhaust:
3.8.1 Unrestricted from the catalytic converter back.
3.8.2 On pre-catalytic converter cars, unrestricted from the head pipe back.
3.8.3 The exhaust must exit beyond the body work.
3.8.4 The exhaust must exit to the rear of the driver.
3.8.5 The exhaust must comply with noise regulations.
3.9 Underbody protection: skid plates and mud flaps are acceptable in production class.
3.10 Safety devices: harnesses, hoops, fire extinguishers are encouraged and are not
considered performance assisting modifications. A full cage moves a vehicle to modified.
3.11 Sway bars. If a vehicle has a sway bar(s), it must be, and remain, connected throughout
the event.
3.12 Strut tower braces. Bolt in strut tower braces are acceptable.
3.13 OEM glass only in production classes. Use of lexan or equivalent materials is a
modification.

ocb_dave_ocb
08-11-2005, 08:17 PM
RALLY.........your presence is being requested in the CHAT

Murgatroy
08-11-2005, 08:37 PM
The suspension rules are very very open to interpretation. The Swaybar rule inerests me though, I understand unhooking it for the improved suspension travel, but woudln't it cause too much body roll? The springs and shocks being free are sweet, but you have to be careful with your hieght. This is gonna be easy to find loopholes in...

Tell me, how is your outlook on an honor system? :hehe:

RallyK
08-12-2005, 05:49 AM
yeah i'm confused as to what their limits are on the suspension.. what do you think are my options?

Murgatroy
08-12-2005, 11:25 AM
I am pretty sure that is means what it says, any shock and spring combo short of a coil over. You are limited of course by ride height, you don't want to low or you will bottom out endlessly. I am not really sure how much you can get away with on your swaybars though. It doesn't say if you can put aftermarket on or not. The strut tower braces are good as well, it leaves a lot of room for stiffening up the chassis. The Skid plates can be welded in and will act as braces, a 4 point roll bar (not a full cage ;) ) will also help. This will make the car rigid as can be. With proper suspension set up you are only going to be limited by your engine and driving skill. You need to check real closely and see if there is a way you could sneak a 3SGE into a GT coupe. I am sure that creative enough loophole exploitation could get it in there. ;)

You will also want a coupe, as it is lighter and more rigid than the lift-back.

RallyK
08-17-2005, 02:35 AM
my mechanic suggested to me that I take off the door panels, take out the stuffing (including metal parts but not the bar), then put the panels back on. He thinks they won't check that sort of stuff.

Murgatroy
08-19-2005, 01:16 PM
Yeah, they won't really, there are all sorts of little things you can do that they won't check UNLESS you win a lot and ppl start bitching. Not that I have ever had that happen mind you. :hehe:

You can bore your engine, get larger valves, port and polish your intake/head, port your exhaust manifold (I can't remember what it is called right now but it is realted to media blasting,) port your throttle body. If you get ambitious enough you could try getting a stroker kit. Anything you can remove and it is not noticable you removed it, that is great. Manual windows/locks, no stereo... the list goes on.

But again, IF they do catch on and pull your engine (yes they can do this) they will strip you of as many wins as they can get away with and suspend you for a fairly decent amount of time. You will want to take your car at least as far as out of state to get any major modifications done. It will be a little obvious for some of the work (the exhaust manifold is a dead give away, get it done solo,) and not so obvious for others.

But again, it all comes back to your understanding of the Honor System. :hehe:

*EDIT* Extrude Honing!! That was the word I was looking for.

alltracman78
08-20-2005, 02:06 AM
my mechanic suggested to me that I take off the door panels, take out the stuffing (including metal parts but not the bar), then put the panels back on. He thinks they won't check that sort of stuff.


Not much stuffing in the 5th g door panels. It's a cardboard type backing that the covering is glued to.
I would assume the 6th g to be similar.