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celica90st
07-03-2005, 09:36 PM
Whats the Easiest and most powerfull engine swap for the Celica ST? how hard is it to drop a Silvertop 20V in there? also does anyone have instructions for that and what tranny, CLutch and Axles would i use? let me know what engine i should use quys thanks.

90CelicaST
07-03-2005, 11:46 PM
The 20 valve 4AGE(silver or black top) will drop right in, however I have heard wiring it in is a bit of a hassle. As for transmission, etc, you would use the AE101 or AE111 transmission, clutch, and axles. Talk to Big_Pimpin here on the board. And also check out http://www.geocities.com/celicasleeper/home.html for more info. You could also swap a All-Trac 3SGTE, but it requires relocating the passenger side motor mount.

Dr Tweak
07-04-2005, 04:32 AM
"Easiest and most powerful" is hard combo. Compared to other cars, the 3SGTE is a pretty simple swap and is very powerful. However it's harder with the ST, and you do have the 20v options. Also a very powerful engine is the 4AGZE which will bolt right in. The wiring is equally as difficult for any engine swap, be it the 4AGE, GZE, or 3SGTE. For the tranny, you could use your stock tranny which is the same one that comes with the silvertop, stock clutch, and your axles. You could also use the tranny that comes with the silvertop (or blacktop) and still use your stock axles. Again, the clutch kit is the same. The tranny that comes with the 4AGZE is very strong and sometimes has LSD, but the axles are very hard to locate (you'll need custom work to them also) and custom tranny mounts.

So what engine should you use? My advice, get the 3SGTE. There's plenty of info on how to swap it here and on 6gc.net, just do some searches. Also check out www.northeasterntuners.com to check out the 4AGE silvertop swap into a '91 Corolla that I just did (your swap would be the same deal).

-Doc

Murgatroy
07-04-2005, 04:40 AM
I like the Car Tweak.. I had seen in on your site, but I had never seen the video before. That was sharp.

Dr Tweak
07-04-2005, 04:56 AM
I like the Car Tweak.. I had seen in on your site, but I had never seen the video before. That was sharp.

:cool: Thanks bro. You couldn't tell from the video but it chirps second like nothing. I hear lots of people dissing the silvertop, but after driving one, I'd pimp it. :wiggle:

Punisher
07-04-2005, 04:57 AM
Eh I wouldn't call a 3SGTE swap "easy" into any celica... Specially an ST... for ease I'd go with a blacktop.. that will drop plenty of power too.

I wouldn't call the 4agze very powerful.. The blacktop will pimp with it.. You'd have to turbocharge the GZE and get a JDM GZE as it is more of an engine than the USDM one.

Dr Tweak
07-04-2005, 04:58 AM
Eh I wouldn't call a 3SGTE swap "easy" into any celica... Specially an ST... for ease I'd go with a blacktop.. that will drop plenty of power too.

Hey are you the same guy who wrote that LONG post on corolla-racing some years back about how to swap a 3SGTE into a Corolla?

Couple things about the blacktop: much better engine, a lot more expensive, but you can get the 6-speed and sometimes LSD. Get a clip with this one, you need the shifter assembly and you can't get one here!

Punisher
07-04-2005, 04:59 AM
LOL no.. I have been a member for like a year on CR.. and I haven't been there in a long long time.

Dr Tweak
07-04-2005, 05:01 AM
LOL no.. I have been a member for like a year on CR.. and I haven't been there in a long long time.

Hehe that's funny, the poster's name was "punisher". Anyway, the torque and throttle response of the 4AGZE is very impressive, it's a worthy engine, and can be given a high boost turbo system without a rebuild, which is worth a lot if that's your plan anyway.

Not dissing the blacktop in any way though :bigthumbu

Punisher
07-04-2005, 06:14 AM
Eh.. I don't agree.. Yes.. very torque.. because of the super.. but the super is a windbag.. a turbo swap would be needed for any sort of true performance. Compared to a 3sgte the motor is weak. It is a fairly easy swap tho for an ST.. I have a friend who put one in his 90 corolla sedan.. I'm familiar with the motor and what it can do.. But considering a JDM gze runs like 12PSI and it only puts down like a 180hp.. ain't that impressive if you ask me.
What the fuck do I know though.. I guess it all depends on how much $$$ you wanna throw into the project and what sort of parts availability you want.. 20V is obviously going to be very hard to source.. unlike a JDM GZE.. which for most parts is the same as the USDM.

celica90st
07-04-2005, 01:31 PM
thanks for the help, how hard is wiring? and do you recomend i get a front clip?

cmcustom
07-04-2005, 02:24 PM
definately get the front clip

Dr Tweak
07-04-2005, 05:50 PM
Don't need a front clip :cool:

I've done a bunch of engine swaps and only once had the clip (whole car, actually), and looking back I surely did not need it. You do, however, have to MAKE SURE that the engine set has everything you need, engine/tranny/wiring/ecu/map sensor or afm (or both), coil, ignitor, (in the case of the 3SGTE the resistor pack).

The exception to the rule is where you need the axles as well or some other hard to find part, such as with the 4AGZE that comes with the E58 tranny, those axles are impossible to get, so it's worth paying the price of the clip just to get them.

By the way, I've dealt with www.venus-auto.com and I've found they are great to work with. They actually get the clips there and then pull the parts out themselves, they also have knowledge of what's needed to swap into different cars and they always make sure they get all the parts. The 3SGTE in my shop right now came from them and was missing NOTHING. :cool:

For the wiring: it's not really hard, but it takes a LONG time and is very tedious and confusing. If you get the diagrams and are good with wires, you can do it on your own (check out my engine swap wiring thread: http://www.celicatech.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6359 )

Otherwise, send both harnesses to me and I'll fix them up for around $300.

-Doc

Galcobar
07-04-2005, 05:56 PM
So in short, unless you know people who know exactly what you will need for your particular car and engine combo, get a clip. Generally buying a motor gets you just that -- motor, and nothing that bolts to it.

magik06
07-04-2005, 06:03 PM
4agze swap is a pain in the ass , and i wouldnt recommend it unless you have a lot of time on ur hands and know how to wire.. it drops right in however, u will need a custom passenger side motor mount.. everything else is fine. you also will need to get new axles. cause the ones from the 4agze do not fit. I heard the axles from the 03 v6 camry fit but im not sure. any how good luck .

Dr Tweak
07-05-2005, 06:10 AM
So in short, unless you know people who know exactly what you will need for your particular car and engine combo, get a clip. Generally buying a motor gets you just that -- motor, and nothing that bolts to it.

And now you know people. :cool: :bigthumbu

jamesdem1123
08-12-2005, 04:52 AM
i have a 91 st, seems to be the most common celica out there. lol i was wondering, how hard is it to switch from an auto to a manual tranny? is it expensive? i just had my tranny rebuilt for like 2 grand cuz my dad wouldnt let me swap then :(. would it be better to just put in a silvertop directly in including new blacktop ecu (for map sensory) directly to old tranny? what mods are there for the silvertop, ive looked online and havent found many? are the cams the same as a 16v

thanks for any help....

Colossus20v
08-12-2005, 09:48 PM
i have a 91 st, seems to be the most common celica out there. lol i was wondering, how hard is it to switch from an auto to a manual tranny? is it expensive? i just had my tranny rebuilt for like 2 grand cuz my dad wouldnt let me swap then :(. would it be better to just put in a silvertop directly in including new blacktop ecu (for map sensory) directly to old tranny? what mods are there for the silvertop, ive looked online and havent found many? are the cams the same as a 16v

thanks for any help....
If you looked online for mods for the silvertop and have not found many then you have not looked enough. There are many mods for it depending on what you want out of it. No the cams are not the same, maybe the exhaust but definitly not the intake because of the 3 intake valves. It would be better to do everything once and do it correctly the first time.

Colossus20v
08-12-2005, 09:51 PM
Don't need a front clip :cool:

I've done a bunch of engine swaps and only once had the clip (whole car, actually), and looking back I surely did not need it. You do, however, have to MAKE SURE that the engine set has everything you need, engine/tranny/wiring/ecu/map sensor or afm (or both), coil, ignitor, (in the case of the 3SGTE the resistor pack).

The exception to the rule is where you need the axles as well or some other hard to find part, such as with the 4AGZE that comes with the E58 tranny, those axles are impossible to get, so it's worth paying the price of the clip just to get them.

By the way, I've dealt with www.venus-auto.com and I've found they are great to work with. They actually get the clips there and then pull the parts out themselves, they also have knowledge of what's needed to swap into different cars and they always make sure they get all the parts. The 3SGTE in my shop right now came from them and was missing NOTHING. :cool:

For the wiring: it's not really hard, but it takes a LONG time and is very tedious and confusing. If you get the diagrams and are good with wires, you can do it on your own (check out my engine swap wiring thread: http://www.celicatech.net/forums/showthread.php?t=6359 )

Otherwise, send both harnesses to me and I'll fix them up for around $300.

-Doc
Tweak, I understand what your saying with not needing a front clip however people here and other mechanics are appearantly not as intelligent as you are. I suggest the front clip because then you do not have as manyh headaches because you see where everything is coming from and goes. That is very important whenever there are not a lot of resources out there for the silvertop. Wiring is a bitch and because of the fact that most of the diagrams are not in english it makes it a lot harder to figure out.

celica90st
08-13-2005, 07:49 PM
so who has the vid of the 20v celica ST? is it tweak? if so i would like to see it because im doing a 4afte right now but concidering a hyper rev 20v

GRUMPY514
08-13-2005, 09:49 PM
I have a 3sgte in migh ST and right this very minutre bro and dad are in garage swapping 3sgte in migh broz ST. Indeed a custom motor mount is needed on the passanger side. Would deff not call it an easy swap. Prolly makes it a bit mo difficualt since we both have v6 camary trannyz on there, so its lot more bulky and stuff. i would dEFF go with the 3sgte. Its more work yes but it is well worth it. My brother actually was going to buy a front clip but decided not to and just drove 2 IN from VA to get tranny, Ecu, wiring harness and we got Engine here for 850. Take the ST engine is EASY but dropping the 3sgte in there is a bit more complicated. We have not yet got to wiring but i think that this drop is more difficualt than wiring would be. And also just so you know you dont have to be a master mechanic to do it. This is our 1st engine swap ever, My brother is like a mechanic i guess really good with cars/Electrical so its prtty simple i guess you could say. We have vids just of my celica dippin out on cars and shite and a speed run. Where we started off at 20mph and cam. wuz just on speedometer so it shows how fast it got up to 100mph. (closed road) :D

Colossus20v
08-16-2005, 05:55 PM
so who has the vid of the 20v celica ST? is it tweak? if so i would like to see it because im doing a 4afte right now but concidering a hyper rev 20v
Tweak has a 20valve corolla wagon I think with the 20v in it. What do you mean by hyper rev 20v?

Dr Tweak
08-17-2005, 04:12 AM
Tweak has a 20valve corolla wagon I think with the 20v in it. What do you mean by hyper rev 20v?

Yeah I built that: http://www.phoenixtuning.com Check in completed swaps. The video is on http://www.northeasterntuners.com/

-Doc