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Punisher
06-13-2005, 03:17 AM
Well got bored so I ripped the cat off of my 90 celi 5sfe.. I drilled 5 1" holes through it... it was pretty caked up.. so we shall see how it runs now I'll let ya guys know!

Psyko
06-13-2005, 03:26 AM
Well got bored so I ripped the cat off of my 90 celi 5sfe.. I drilled 5 1" holes through it... it was pretty caked up.. so we shall see how it runs now I'll let ya guys know!


:laugh: :laugh: This is what you do when you are bored, that rocks..

Abacaba
06-13-2005, 05:28 AM
I guess the air flow through the cat is worse with (5) 1" holes?!

Hooligan
06-13-2005, 06:07 AM
Anyone who guts/modifies the cat without replacing it with a test pipe is just making their car pollute worse, make more noise, and probably making their exhaust flow worse. You want smooth transitions and flow throughout the entire exhaust system.

acidice333
06-13-2005, 07:31 AM
We want clean air!- not some rice car that looks good but pollutes

Galcobar
06-13-2005, 07:44 AM
And as Hooligan said, a gutted cat does not improve exhaust flow -- by creating a bulge in the pipe, you create turbulence, which decreases flow speed and therefore impairs exhaust scavenging.

Punisher
06-13-2005, 09:05 AM
I didn't create anything.. I simply drilled 5 holes around in the cat.. It didn't add any exhaust note.. but it does feel slightly peppier.. more so in 5th gear.. it was pretty plugged up.

As for the clean air.. it'll still do somewhat of a job.. I really could careless about your clean air anyway.. my car isn't going to do much more poluting with 5 holes drilled in the cat.. don't forget I also have my EGR disconnected.. not because I think it's better for power.. it just makes the car run like absolute shit.

RickyNo
06-13-2005, 04:27 PM
Go on the Magnaflow website and read about "how to build your own exhaust system". What you did is (sorry but) stupid.

Punisher
06-13-2005, 05:04 PM
Any stupidier than half the people that gut their cats? I could honestly give a flying fuck... if I had the money and wanted to waste it on a cat I would've got a high flow cat and put it on.. So I did the next best thing... drilled some of it out!

And don't tell me this "hurts" exhaust flow because whoever says that is full of shit and has never actually seen the stock exhaust manifold for the stock cat setup, it's by no means "flow" oriented to begin with.

Adrian Avgerinos
06-13-2005, 07:24 PM
Ripped the cat off!

Holy shit! Are you serious?! That's the most amazing thing I've heard all day! Thanks for sharing! I hear if you stick magnets to your cat, the exhaust flows faster through it. ;)

alltracman78
06-13-2005, 07:27 PM
You know, it all depends on the cat....
If it's 90% clogged, holes will help, turbulence or not....
It might not be as good as a $300 exhaust, but it's better than almost no flow [I intend to do this on my truck, until I can get a better exhaust]

Slider
06-13-2005, 10:19 PM
A gutted cat will flow better than a clogged cat.

RickyNo
06-13-2005, 11:06 PM
not necessarly, they both have negative effects.




...
TO CAT OR NOT TO CAT
Whatever you do, do not remove or gut out the catalytic converter on your street machine. The monolithic, straight-through design of modern three-way catalytic converters is usually quite free flowing on most modern imports, producing at the most, only a pound or two of extra backpressure. A gutted cat can actually hurt power as the empty box can cause flow stagnation, which effectively shortens the length of the moving gas column in the exhaust pipe. The empty box can also reduce important flow velocity. This can be felt as loss in bottom-end power.

Because of these factors, it is not unusual for cars to actually gain power with the addition of a cat. If every last bit of power must be extracted, as in real, off-the-street sanctioned racing, then the cat can be removed and replaced with a length of pipe the same diameter of the rest of the exhaust system, not simply gutted to a power robbing shell. A full race turbo or nitrous oxide system can benefit from removing the cat when racing levels of boost or nitrous are being run. Boost or nitrous flow levels you would run on the street on pump gas are not enough to warrant cat removal for performance gain.
...


http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05sportc.asp

Punisher
06-13-2005, 11:07 PM
Ya, and I plan on ripping the engine out for a 3SGTE and I'll be re-doing the entire exhaust system then anyway.. so I really don't care. As for performance goes I really can't notice to much.. it was more or less an expirement to basically prove to you guys that gutting a cat is not going to give tons of horsepower or some shit.

It didn't make the exhaust any louder either so I don't care.

Psyko
06-13-2005, 11:14 PM
I want pics, can you get some pics of the master work... :hehe:

alltracman78
06-14-2005, 02:45 AM
not necessarly, they both have negative effects.




http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05sportc.asp

They are talking about a almost new, free flowing cat.
Not a clogged, 150000m one.....

Punisher
06-14-2005, 03:10 AM
Ahh.. I'm playing with a 162,xxx mile one :) Bought the car a few months ago and I already put 12K on it

Punisher
06-14-2005, 03:26 AM
btw, I'll have pics up later.

You guys gotta remember that the cat on our car is right at the engine.. Where exhaust flow is at it's highest.. So any sort of restriction there is bad.. Once you see the 5 holes I drilled through mine you'll realize it wasn't actually that bad of a move.. There is a massive amount of honeycomb left.

alltracman78
06-14-2005, 01:11 PM
Ahh.. I'm playing with a 162,xxx mile one :) Bought the car a few months ago and I already put 12K on it

Oh, in that case, bad idea.
It will flow much better with a clogged cat.

:D

Adrian Avgerinos
06-14-2005, 03:02 PM
btw, I'll have pics up later.

You guys gotta remember that the cat on our car is right at the engine.. Where exhaust flow is at it's highest.. So any sort of restriction there is bad.. Once you see the 5 holes I drilled through mine you'll realize it wasn't actually that bad of a move.. There is a massive amount of honeycomb left.

Not to doubt your swiss cheese abilities, but until you take a class in fluid dynamics you are basically full of bologna.

Thanks for playing though. :bigthumbu

85gtsblackman
06-14-2005, 06:46 PM
meh i replaced my cat with a cherrybomb :hehe:

evilcel
06-14-2005, 06:57 PM
meh i replaced my cat with a cherrybomb :hehe:


Not to doubt your swiss cheese abilities, but until you take a class in fluid dynamics you are basically full of bologna.

Thanks for playing though. :bigthumbu


:bigthumbu

Punisher
06-15-2005, 03:05 AM
Adrian, Feel free to paypal me the funds to get a new magnaflow cat then... Since what I did was better than playing around with a gunked up cat.

Galcobar
06-15-2005, 12:35 PM
You replaced a cat with a Cherry Bomb -- so you wanted to add noise and decrease smooth flow at the same time?

Murgatroy
06-15-2005, 12:48 PM
btw, I'll have pics up later.

You guys gotta remember that the cat on our car is right at the engine.. Where exhaust flow is at it's highest.. So any sort of restriction there is bad.. Once you see the 5 holes I drilled through mine you'll realize it wasn't actually that bad of a move.. There is a massive amount of honeycomb left.
If it is a sealed system (it is) exhuast flow is gonna be the same till it gets its happy little ass out the end of the tail pipe. Drilling holes throught the cat did nothing. Nada. Squat and zip. It would be much easier and worth it to replace it with a length of pipe and delete the cat all together.

And before you start going talking shit to some of these folks on here, learn who they are and what they do for a living. ;) I would think twice before calling Adrian full of shit.

Rayme
06-15-2005, 01:54 PM
you should have drilled all the honeycomb and insert a pipe in there..probably easiest way to gain flow on a budget.

RickyNo
06-15-2005, 02:37 PM
You replaced a cat with a Cherry Bomb -- so you wanted to add noise and decrease smooth flow at the same time?

You need to learn about exhausts i think...

Punisher
06-15-2005, 02:41 PM
IT was nothing more than a fucking expirement to see if it helped at all.. It isn't going to hurt exhuast flow at all..

Exhaust manifold collects all 4 exhaust ports and runs it into one big ass collector chamber.. The exhaust manifold has like a 4" opening into the cat.. which the cat exits with like a 1.75" opening.. All the cat acts as is another collecting chamber.. It isn't like with a cat that is in the exhaust system where you are going from uniform exhaust pipe then into a big chamber (the cat) and then out into exhaust pipe again.. gutting that out will definitly fuck with the flow.. add turbulance and kill velocity.

Anyone who wants to come and talk all of this shit to me how it was sooo bad can go fuck themselves really... It made really no difference.. it didn't hurt performance and it didn't really help it.. So I really don't know where half of you guys come off saying that I did something worse than better..

All of this coming from a group of people that get pulled over for having exhaust systems made from 10" pipe and using mufflers in the exhaust system as "resonators".

Come on now.. fuck off.

Murgatroy
06-15-2005, 02:47 PM
Grow up. The hostility is not becoming.

I understand that it was just an experiment. But the point is we could have told yo uthe outcome and you wouldn't have had to waste your time doing it. As for making a broad generalization about all of us because one person got pulled over... now that is just being a pompous ass.

And yes the glasspack used as a resonator is a good idea, I have done it on several of my cars as well as cars I have built for others. It gets rid of the horrid loud tone and gives a bit more backpressure.

Punisher
06-15-2005, 02:50 PM
The hostility is because you guys are crawling down my ass and it's not very becoming of any of you.

Murgatroy
06-15-2005, 02:51 PM
It is the internet. Folks do that here. You just get used to it.

Punisher
06-15-2005, 02:58 PM
Ya, considering there are atleast a few threads on this site where people said they gutted their cats completely and no one jumped down their throats or said anything about it.

I drill a few holes through my 162,xxx mile old cat and I start getting bullshit about fluid dynamics.

Btw, you CAN'T put a straight pipe through the cat... The exhaust manifold opens up into the cat with a 3" opening and the cat exits at a 1.75" opening or some shit.. it's massively different top to bottom.. So really it's not just as easy as getting a test pipe and throwing it in and calling it a day.. it's a PITA and on this car where the cat sits it makes absolutely no difference if it's half gutted or all there.

Adrian Avgerinos
06-15-2005, 05:56 PM
Look slick, you can do whatever you want to your car. When you start making claims like


It isn't going to hurt exhuast flow at all..


It made really no difference..


You guys gotta remember that the cat on our car is right at the engine.. Where exhaust flow is at it's highest..


my car isn't going to do much more poluting with 5 holes drilled in the cat

after proclaiming that your project is as important as the second coming via your thread title, be prepared to back up your information or you will be called on it. It's as simple as that.

Punisher
06-15-2005, 08:27 PM
You took it that way.. not me.. It was an expirement.. and if I had the cash to waste on something like a new cat I would've just done that to begin with.

An expirement more or less to see if at this many miles the cat was really clogged up or not, basically to show others that if it was for me.. it could very well be for your engine with the same or more miles..

It didn't give any adverse performance affects nor did it boost anything.. It does seem to catch speed a little faster when in 5th gear on the high way.. otherwise.. nothings changed.

Although I am watching my gas mileage and I think for some reason that is getting better.. not sure why though yet, gonna watch this tank and see how it does.

CelicaGT4
06-15-2005, 08:48 PM
I don't know what everyone's problems are on this subject. It's his goddamn care, leave him the fuck alone about it. Punisher, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. Keep up the good work and don't let these people get to you.

Hooligan
06-16-2005, 12:27 AM
I could care less what you do to your car, but you are saying stuff that is absolutely NOT true. That's not good for other members that read this thread and think this is a good idea.

For the record, I have told a few people that gutting a cat will just make more turbulence and probably hurt exhaust gas velocity/exhaust performance. I just don't feel like typing the whole spiel up everytime someone talks about it (they should be searching anyways).

Fluid mechanics is definitely not bullshit, it's science.

85gtsblackman
06-16-2005, 01:56 AM
very little exaust flow (clogged cat)< punched out cat (with crappy flow)

what u can do is buy a late 4th gen camry exaust manifold for cheap which is actally a header, ren het it welded/flanged togather

Punisher
06-16-2005, 04:05 AM
I don't know what everyone's problems are on this subject. It's his goddamn care, leave him the fuck alone about it. Punisher, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. Keep up the good work and don't let these people get to you.


Thank You.
You can throw stones and shoot text book facts but you'll learn a new ball game when you start getting your hands dirty. I'm done with this thread.

fiveSFE
06-16-2005, 04:24 AM
what makes everyone in here exhaust experts, give the guy a break he just tried something to improve his car. i know i would of tried it if i still had my celica

Galcobar
06-16-2005, 04:45 AM
Of course, text books never have any relevant information in them, even when they're written by people who design the systems in question.

Murgatroy
06-16-2005, 06:50 AM
I don't mind getting my hands dirty at all, but to perform some stupid experiment when I could ask a knowlegable crowd the question and find out? I would prefer setting my timing or washing an waxing the car as to seeing if something will help her of fuck her up.

It is called common sense and thinking. Something anyone should be required to do before picking up a wrench.

:D

Hooligan
06-16-2005, 06:50 AM
Thank You.
You can throw stones and shoot text book facts but you'll learn a new ball game when you start getting your hands dirty. I'm done with this thread.

This is truly amazing! Apparently, engineers have NO idea what they're doing, according to this fellow?

Admit it, some people know more about this subject than you do. It's that simple.

Punisher
06-16-2005, 04:14 PM
So I suppose if I wanted to put a 2.5" exhaust on my car.. with a big straight through muffler... that would be ok with you guys? I wouldn't get any flack for that.. because that's cool right?

Hooligan
06-16-2005, 04:53 PM
So I suppose if I wanted to put a 2.5" exhaust on my car.. with a big straight through muffler... that would be ok with you guys? I wouldn't get any flack for that.. because that's cool right?

What does that have to do with this thread? We are not trying to single you out.

I would say that exhaust is a great idea if you are have a mild FI setup or want to run some nitrous. Otherwise, it's too big and you should downsize to 2.25".

Punisher
06-16-2005, 05:05 PM
Amazing.. you don't say that to other people runnin around on this forum with exhausts blowin out a 100dB..

I'm fuckin sick of this.. I AM being singled out for what I did.. you guys are acting like it's the celica hate crime of the century.. yet i'm sure a lot of people here are running exhaust systems that are to large for their engine to begin with.. and i'm sure you self proclaimed genius engineers can figure out how bad that is.

So if you don't like this thread.. delete it.. I'm sick of this shit and if you didn't like it in the first place no one put a fuckin gun to your head and made you post some stupid ass comment, because you THINK you know better..

And if people would always go by the idea of "just ask someone else who knows more and they would've told you that it was a dumb idea" then we most likely wouldn't be anywhere near the technological advances we are today.. It's free thinkers that TRY AND EXPIREMENT first that invent new and better ways of doing things.. not dumbasses that put numbers together on paper and say it doesn't calculate. I personally like to try things first hand.. I suspected that my converter was clogged up.. so my answer to this? Drill a few holes through the center area of the honeycomb.. NOT gut it.. because I know that gutting it wouldn't be good. However it is in my opinion that since the converter sits directly off of the engine that the exhaust gases haven't formed a flow yet.. They are still to hot and are more interested in just getting the fuck away from the engine as fast as possible.

My expirement proved that nothing changed with what I did. I didn't have to come on here and ask you guys if I could go out and tinker with my own car.. so fuck off.

I didn't come on here and say that it made a world of difference and the car now runs 12s 1/4 mile times either.. so I didn't lie and feed bullshit to anyone.. so once again fuck off.

And if you don't like me or this thread or this post.. ban me.. and fuck off.

RickyNo
06-16-2005, 05:38 PM
I thought you were done with this thread 3 posts away, but, anyway, chill man, don't take it like that. :squint:

Things have been researched on exhausts systems, i don't think there is much newer things to discover about how to do it, except maybe new materials. Nobody wants to piss you off by sending you to read some material you consider shit, it's the opposite, but if you just don't care that people want you to learn something, it's you choice, just don't read and don't say it's bullshit. :nono:

Now I am done with the thread, and i'll know how to shut up and let you do and think whatever next time. :yes:

Hooligan
06-16-2005, 06:41 PM
Punisher, I'm sorry, but you are twisting my words (as well as the words of others) into something that makes it sound like we are out to get you. That is not the case. Personally, I was just trying to keep people well informed. I will say again...I don't really care what you do to your car and I'm not into bashing people down because of that.

Honestly, what do you have against engineers? Do you hate everyone that is more well informed on a topic than you are? For the record, opinions don't mean jack.

corvelx
06-16-2005, 06:55 PM
Punisher - It may not have been the best thing to do but I totally understand where you are coming from. The Celica I used to have (CelicaGT4 owns it now) has a gutted cat on it. I didn't have the money for a stock replacement at the time so I gutted it. If it was to happen again to my current Celica, I would pay for a stock replacement.

Punisher
06-16-2005, 09:21 PM
Punisher - It may not have been the best thing to do but I totally understand where you are coming from. The Celica I used to have (CelicaGT4 owns it now) has a gutted cat on it. I didn't have the money for a stock replacement at the time so I gutted it. If it was to happen again to my current Celica, I would pay for a stock replacement.

WOW.. someone that understands what I did and why I did it.. IT WAS PURELY AN EXPIREMENT TO SEE IF MY CAT WAS CLOGGED! NOTHING MORE!!!

I didn't do it thinking I was going to GAIN horsepower..

I don't have anything against engineers.. what I do have a beef against is pompous assholes that think they know what is going on with MY CAR. I perfectly and clearly understand that gutting a cat IS NOT the way to added performance.

That's why I got so pissed off.. for some reason you guys started attacking me as if I was trying to gain something that shouldn't already be there

And I won't waste the money on a replacement cat for this engine.. I'm seriously working on a 3sgte swap and I'll need to do an entire exhaust system then.

My plans with that are going to be to use a stock GTS muffler.. since i like the way they look.. plasma cut it open and plasma cut all of the baffles out so it's basically a straight through muffler. I'm more about quiet and lose a few hp than loud.

Hooligan
06-16-2005, 09:32 PM
So are you now calling me a pompous asshole or what?

I never attacked you, I just made a statement. Calm.

I'm pretty sure that a muffler with all of the baffles cut out of it wouldn't be a muffler anymore, either. I like the idea of the quiet performance car, however. Turbo noises would be enough fun for a 3S powered car. :) Good luck on the swap.

When I pulled my stock exhaust manifold off of my car at 163xxx, the cat in it looked perfect (just like the one on the 40xxx mile old manifold I was installing). Well maintained cars usually never need the cat replaced. Bad O2 sensors, among other things, can cause the car to run rich and then unburned fuel builds up in the cat, clogging it.

Punisher
06-17-2005, 02:09 AM
I just bought the car a few months ago at a 150K... so I really had no idea what might be wrong.. I had to do a couple things on it and I was bored so I decided, why not pull the cat and see what the whole design looks like.

http://b16crx.com/~tekphobia/P1010001.JPG

That's what I decided to do.

I didn't call YOU a pompous asshole I called everyone that decided to straight out attack me for standing up for my idea's and what I did.

if you don't like what I did move on... I skip over a lot of posts so I don't "flame" n00bs.

And taking the baffles out of the muffler will make it a straight through "muffler" I just don't like those can "mufflers".. I'd rather keep it stock looking and with no restriction in the muffler it should work out pretty damn good. Then again I'm doing a remote turbo setup.. so how that may affect exhaust noise to begin with I'm not sure.

Punisher
06-17-2005, 02:10 AM
http://b16crx.com/~tekphobia/P1010002.JPG

Not that terribly bad of a job if I say so myself.. far better than "gutting" it..

grease monkey
06-17-2005, 02:34 AM
I don't know what everyone's problems are on this subject. It's his goddamn care, leave him the fuck alone about it. Punisher, I don't see anything wrong with what you did. Keep up the good work and don't let these people get to you.


no shit,he didnt say he was doing an experiment in fluid dynamics,he drilled out his fucking cat after he found it was clogged....mine was too on my 91 st,the honeycomb was fucking MELTED!!!!i punched out all of the honeycomb and my gas mileage instantly improved....i was looking under my car for an exhaust leak after driving it for 10 mins and got my hand 3" from the cat and burned the hair on the back of it.i got some advice for all the people that are bitching:CRUSH UP 2 MIDOL AND RUB IT ON YOUR BLEEDING PUSSIES!!!!!!!!!!!! :wiggle:

Punisher
06-17-2005, 03:01 AM
no shit,he didnt say he was doing an experiment in fluid dynamics,he drilled out his fucking cat after he found it was clogged....mine was too on my 91 st,the honeycomb was fucking MELTED!!!!i punched out all of the honeycomb and my gas mileage instantly improved....i was looking under my car for an exhaust leak after driving it for 10 mins and got my hand 3" from the cat and burned the hair on the back of it.i got some advice for all the people that are bitching:CRUSH UP 2 MIDOL AND RUB IT ON YOUR BLEEDING PUSSIES!!!!!!!!!!!! :wiggle:


I do appreciate ALL of your support. THANK YOU!

I have notice that my gas mileage has gotten better.. I can't say that the honeycomb was "melted" I didn't know WHAT I was getting into when I decided to rip it out.. I know that the oxygen sensor that was on the car when I bought it and for about 5K miles afterwards was dead...

GT4RC
06-17-2005, 03:03 AM
all the people that are bitching:CRUSH UP 2 MIDOL AND RUB IT ON YOUR BLEEDING PUSSIES!!!!!!!!!!!!
now is a good time to bust in and laugh my ass off....

heh.

Psyko
06-17-2005, 03:29 AM
In Bofore the Lock..

Galcobar
06-17-2005, 09:55 AM
Punisher...if you want a stock looking straight-through muffler, buy one. The stock muffler isn't a straight through and never will be, since a straight through is a perforated pipe surrounded by absorptive material. The stock is a reflective design.

Standard body straight-throughs are available, for good prices -- and a heck of a lot less than the cost of a direct-fit cat replacement.

Murgatroy
06-17-2005, 10:52 AM
A Borla or Flowmaster would be a much better alternative to 'gutting' a stock GT-S Muffler... Have you not learned anything yet?

I really feel sorry for ppl that think like you Punisher. You probably aren't a bad person, you are just so caught up in yourself that you don't realize we are trying to help you and other ppl in your situation. Instead you consider it an attack. Engineers have to do it hands on as well, we don't just look at schematics and think 'what if?' If you are offended, grow the fuck up and get over yourself. You really aren't half as smart as you think you are. Performing an experiment on a system that has been being fine tuned and tweaked with masterful results since Vic Edelbrock thought headers on a Flat Head Ford would make it go faster is certainly not breaking new grounds.

Anyways, I am over your egotistic attitude and I will stay out of this thread once I say I am leaving it. ;)


Good day, and I hope you next experiment involves getting your head out of your ass and realizing that there are ppl that know more than you. And the years we have invested in schooling for this matter was not an excuse to keep our hands clean, but to better understand what we were doing when we got them dirty.

:thefinger

bitskyline
06-17-2005, 10:59 AM
humm i bought mine with 150,000k too.. maybe i should do that nah i'll just get a header

grease monkey
06-17-2005, 02:42 PM
A Borla or Flowmaster would be a much better alternative to 'gutting' a stock GT-S Muffler... Have you not learned anything yet?

I really feel sorry for ppl that think like you Punisher. You probably aren't a bad person, you are just so caught up in yourself that you don't realize we are trying to help you and other ppl in your situation. Instead you consider it an attack. Engineers have to do it hands on as well, we don't just look at schematics and think 'what if?' If you are offended, grow the fuck up and get over yourself. You really aren't half as smart as you think you are. Performing an experiment on a system that has been being fine tuned and tweaked with masterful results since Vic Edelbrock thought headers on a Flat Head Ford would make it go faster is certainly not breaking new grounds.

Anyways, I am over your egotistic attitude and I will stay out of this thread once I say I am leaving it. ;)


Good day, and I hope you next experiment involves getting your head out of your ass and realizing that there are ppl that know more than you. And the years we have invested in schooling for this matter was not an excuse to keep our hands clean, but to better understand what we were doing when we got them dirty.

:thefinger


that was an attack right there genius......he also said he didnt have the money for a bunch of tuned shit right now,so you fuck off.i think using what you have because youre broke and modifying it to work is pretty cool,and if you dont like "backyard engineering",you need to get over YOUR ego trip asshole......that was also an attack,if youre pussy hurt about it,i suggest using my above advice:crush up 2 midol and rub them on your bleeding pussy. :laugh:

96celica
06-17-2005, 02:56 PM
wow there is some PMS up in this forum

#1) the toyota exhaust are far from "system that has been being fine tuned and tweaked with masterful results" haha

#2) a drilled out cat is better then a clogged up cat end of story my 2 year old brother as well as a rocket scientist will agree on that

#3) its not a "modification" its adjusting a stock part to perform better on your budget until a "modification" can be afforded......there ain't nothing wrong with that

#4) if you don't like it get over it its done not like he's goin to go glue it back together

#5) COUNTRY FREAKIN ROCKS!

Adrian Avgerinos
06-17-2005, 04:09 PM
wow there is some PMS up in this forum
#1) the toyota exhaust are far from "system that has been being fine tuned and tweaked with masterful results" haha

No shit, smartass. Most of us aren't arguing that.



#2) a drilled out cat is better then a clogged up cat end of story my 2 year old brother as well as a rocket scientist will agree on that

Who decided the cat was clogged? Where's the proof?



#3) its not a "modification" its adjusting a stock part to perform better on your budget until a "modification" can be afforded......there ain't nothing wrong with that

See answer #1



#5) COUNTRY FREAKIN ROCKS!

Ahhh... that explains your first 3 comments. Thanks for playing chief. :bigthumbu

I think all the defensive pricks on this thread, and the supporting retards, are getting worked up over the wrong argument. All arguments against Punisher are stemming from his attitude and ignorant statements. Nobody cares if he chooses to destroy his catalytic convert. Really, we don't. It's when he starts making outrageous claims that it's time to set him straight. There are way too many "sport compact" themed message boards on the internet right now with self-proclaimed geniuses spouting bullshit like it's going out of style. Let's not let that happen to this message board, okay?

96celica
06-17-2005, 04:17 PM
oh come on you know country is good ;)

i was kinda pushed into thanks to my last two girl's being into country......

but damn country has some hot chics :)

Punisher
06-17-2005, 04:32 PM
Murgatroy.. I remember you from toyotanation.com ... You were a pretty nice guy then.. Atleast you were to me.. when you were asking me if my 4AF cams would work in your 4AFE.. I wonder where things went wrong in your life.. Maybe it was when you stuck your head up your own ass?

It's dickweeds like you that are going to ruin this place.

Btw, I seem to remember that so clearly too.. Something about you not having enough money to buy them.. Hmm.. I wonder when you turned into the millionaire and decided to start flaming people that don't have money to run out and do everything your way? It's usually the dickheads that get bitch slapped around in life that come around to places like forums on the internet and decide to be complete assholes to other members, just so they can feel some sort of satisfaction.

Punisher
06-17-2005, 04:37 PM
Adrian, when did I EVER start making outrageous ricer claims?
Maybe you are talking about the part where i said that it made 5th gear feel slightly better?

Maybe you are talking abotu the part where I defended my view that it didn't hurt exhaust flow.. If it would've HURT exhaust flow.. performance would've dropped.. yet it didn't and nothing got worse.. my gas mileage went up though!

So come on.. You want some proof? Give me some proof to.. why don't you PROVE TO ME that what I did was the exhaust flow hurting crime of the century.. If you can't.. then shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my thread.
Anyone else want to say that I made ricer bullshit claims? Go ahead.. :givafuck:

Punisher
06-17-2005, 04:54 PM
Oooooh and whoever the smarty pants was that said I should replace the cat with a test pipe.. PLEASE do explain to me how you (or anyone else) thinks that it would be POSSIBLE and FLOW BENEFICIAL to put a test pipe on the stock header and connect it to the stock exhaust system (in the place of the cat). Please.. Explain to me how that one can be done, since you are all so god damn fucking smart.

96celica
06-17-2005, 05:22 PM
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/images/smilies/gtfoslap.gif :stupid: :slap: :wiggle: http://www.supraforums.com/forum/images/smilies/drama.gif
http://www.supraforums.com/forum/images/smilies/madfawk.gif

Adrian Avgerinos
06-17-2005, 05:39 PM
oh come on you know country is good ;)

i was kinda pushed into thanks to my last two girl's being into country......

but damn country has some hot chics :)

All made in jest. My girlfriend is a big country music fan. I can't stand it, but I will admit Sarah Evans is HOT!


Adrian, when did I EVER start making outrageous ricer claims?
Maybe you are talking about the part where i said that it made 5th gear feel slightly better?

Right here:
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=76966&postcount=33



Maybe you are talking abotu the part where I defended my view that it didn't hurt exhaust flow.. If it would've HURT exhaust flow.. performance would've dropped.. yet it didn't and nothing got worse.. my gas mileage went up though!


Exhaust flow does not always equal performance. There are many MANY variables involved.



So come on.. You want some proof? Give me some proof to.. why don't you PROVE TO ME that what I did was the exhaust flow hurting crime of the century.. If you can't.. then shut the fuck up and get the fuck out of my thread.


Nice try there. It doesn't work that way. You can't make a claim and then expect someone to disprove you to enforce it's validity. That's like saying "Space monkies live on Neptune!" and then proclaiming it's validity when nobody has the ability to disprove you.

Enjoy the uber-cat. I hope it makes your car go really fast.

grease monkey
06-17-2005, 07:16 PM
All made in jest. My girlfriend is a big country music fan. I can't stand it, but I will admit Sarah Evans is HOT!



Right here:
http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showpost.php?p=76966&postcount=33



Exhaust flow does not always equal performance. There are many MANY variables involved.



Nice try there. It doesn't work that way. You can't make a claim and then expect someone to disprove you to enforce it's validity. That's like saying "Space monkies live on Neptune!" and then proclaiming it's validity when nobody has the ability to disprove you.

Enjoy the uber-cat. I hope it makes your car go really fast.


youre a fucking idiot...you may be an engineer or just avoiding questions by acting smart,you sound halfway intelligent(i.e.-can tie shoes,knows the correct order of doing things when sitting down to pee like a woman),but albert fucking einstein couldnt do simple shit........like make a good comeback......stick your fucking head in a volcano,no one will miss you. :slap:

96celica
06-17-2005, 08:40 PM
hehe your faces slap at the same time ^^^^^^

grease monkey
06-17-2005, 09:13 PM
see now,engineers make things WAY TOO COMPLICATED!!!!i clearly remember him stating his cat was stopped up,he didnt say he was doing a mod to his exhaust to extract more burnt exhaust gasses therefore improving velocity and flow at the same time.....even if both of those things arent possible together,i dont give a fuck,just making a point that people should unserstand easily!

GRUMPY514
06-17-2005, 10:05 PM
Ay guys iam a new member to celica Tech My name is Emil, just droppin by sayin hello, Could someone please let me kno how to put IMG'z when i post a thread? THanx

RickyNo
06-17-2005, 10:07 PM
Ay guys iam a new member to celica Tech My name is Emil, just droppin by sayin hello, Could someone please let me kno how to put IMG'z when i post a thread? THanx

The thread is now getting clogged... :laugh: (sorry, couldn't resist)

Adrian Avgerinos
06-17-2005, 11:16 PM
youre a fucking idiot...you may be an engineer or just avoiding questions by acting smart,you sound halfway intelligent(i.e.-can tie shoes,knows the correct order of doing things when sitting down to pee like a woman),but albert fucking einstein couldnt do simple shit........like make a good comeback......stick your fucking head in a volcano,no one will miss you. :slap:

Congratulations. Your e-penis is bigger than mine. Do you want a cookie now?

GRUMPY514
06-18-2005, 12:27 AM
Can anyone tell me how to host IMG'z ????

Punisher
06-18-2005, 12:58 AM
lol great place to come and ask on how to post pics

grease monkey
06-18-2005, 01:39 AM
Congratulations. Your e-penis is bigger than mine. Do you want a cookie now?

it better be chocolate chip with sprinkles beeeeeotch!!!!! :wtf:

Luni
06-23-2005, 08:04 AM
I do have to say that I am a bit dissappointed with you guys.

Honestly Its one thing to correct someone or make your own claims, but this thread escalated into something far different. When I get a PM about whats in here, I read through it, and see flaming on all sides going on I come in and make a stand. This type of stuff here is unacceptable. I dont want to see people posting their ideas being shot down for it. If the mans cat was clogged, he helped it out a little bit. I can say that a gutted cat will outflow a clogged cat because I had to gut the primary cat and the secondary cat in my MR2 just to build boost. Once I did that the turbo was fine. Before that I got a whopping 4 PSI. Now I have since then replaced the secondary with an aftermarket unit. I dont notice any hp difference going from no cat to a cat, but if the cat was clogged or losing effectiveness him doing what he did is no big deal and I think you guys went a bit overboard with your technicalities. Now Punisher did get a bit defensive as well but I would have been pretty pissed too if I posted my idea and was flayed for it as well. Nothing he did to his cat had a detrimental effect on his engine. He may not have gained anything, but he sure as shit didnt hurt anything as well. And I bet a properly running 5SFE will pass emissions without any cats as well.

Come on guys, this thread is pretty bad.

Slider
06-23-2005, 08:14 AM
:laugh: should move this to OT and just change the thread title to flame fest

Slider
06-23-2005, 08:15 AM
Ay guys iam a new member to celica Tech My name is Emil, just droppin by sayin hello, Could someone please let me kno how to put IMG'z when i post a thread? THanx

www.imageshack.com

Murgatroy
06-23-2005, 08:19 AM
I agree with Luni and that is why I left this thread. Punisher. I am sorry I came off sounding like an ass. Ok. I was being an ass. I don't like the open blatant attacks and name calling. Yes I was pretty asinine in this thread, but I don't think I ever stooped to the level that it declined to after I last checked it. My last post was when I left. Like I said.

If your cat was clogged, yes drilling the holes out helped it.

No I am not made of money now. But I don't like doing cut rate work on my car. If I can not do it proper, I leave it alone.

You seemed like a decent person back in the day as well. (I just realized today that it was you, had I re read this thread I would have noticed earlier.) I guess I just fell in likea jackal and attacked when everyone else did. I apologize.

Peace?

Punisher
06-23-2005, 04:21 PM
Peace...

Luni, how about nukin this thread?

Hooligan
06-23-2005, 06:01 PM
I don't think this thread should go anywhere. Some valid points were brought up by several parties.

gen5
06-23-2005, 11:14 PM
I agree with Luni and that is why I left this thread.
If your cat was clogged, yes drilling the holes out helped it.
Damn Murg, make up your mind. First it's-
Drilling holes throught the cat did nothing. Nada. Squat and zip.-now it's okay. :squint:
Anyhoo, one of the problems with flaming is that often people lose a whole lot of their credibillity instead of making themselves look better. I also agree with Hooligan when he said that making false claims is bad for new members. I just wanted to point out an early statement that was made that certainly falls into the category of bad ideas but seems to have slipped through:

And yes the glasspack used as a resonator is a good idea, I have done it on several of my cars as well as cars I have built for others. It gets rid of the horrid loud tone and gives a bit more backpressure. This is not an attack, just a rebuttal to your claim. This topic has been raped in other threads so if this comment catches your ear, please research our forums to find out why this is bad. Although many good things are bourne of contreversy, it can be done without the personal attacks. Attacking the thing is not so bad but attacking the person who did it is not needed to make your point. Happy posting! :bigthumbu

gen5
06-23-2005, 11:19 PM
Punisher- I actually think this is a rather interesting idea(once I saw the pic,I couldn't visualize it at first) The reason I say this is because he has not made the airflow area any larger than it already was. Not sure if several more smaller holes or what you did is better, but I would like to hear what some of the more educated members have to say. This may be a very viable option to gutting.

Hooligan
06-24-2005, 12:33 AM
gen5, I don't know if I fall under the category of a more educated member or not, but I would have said that a single hole in the center of the cat would have created less turbulence than five separate ones.

Luni
06-24-2005, 12:48 AM
Ay guys iam a new member to celica Tech My name is Emil, just droppin by sayin hello, Could someone please let me kno how to put IMG'z when i post a thread? THanx

Use the gallery. www.celicatech.com/galley (http://www.celicatech.com/galley)

Punisher
06-24-2005, 01:33 AM
Well.. I made 5 holes .. I got carried away.. LOL

In any case.. I think more it just lets exhaust flow through easier.. yet no completely destroying the element and causing a huge casm. I don't know..

We can all sit around and post bullshit and hate and say that it's bad or it's good.. but we are all talking out of our ass unless we were to test it on something like a (flow bench?) To see if it hurt anything or helped or didn't make any difference.. Personally I'd lean against the route that it would've "helped" if I didn't still have the stock exhaust system.. But it's all speculation.

xeril
06-24-2005, 04:55 AM
i thought.. dyno results showed that a gutted downpipe yields like 4 less whp than an aussi 3inch downpipe.. for the 3sgte that is. dun remember the circumstances or the mods. but i heard gutting the downpipe will cause turbo to spool quicker :)

Punisher
06-24-2005, 05:22 AM
That's completely gutted tho

Playfortoday
06-24-2005, 06:12 AM
Damn, every cool person on this site serious showed his own ass. This is not what we are about here. Let's all play nice. BTW, the next flame in this thread not directed at me buys it a Mr. http://www.celicatech.com/designs/ta/buttons/threadclosed.gif

Blackcloud
06-24-2005, 06:24 AM
:popcorn:

gen5
06-24-2005, 09:34 AM
Damn, every cool person on this site serious showed his own ass.
Does that mean I'm not one of the cool guys? :squint:

alltracman78
06-24-2005, 04:50 PM
Play, you suck cow titties!
And your dumb :D

Conrad_Turbo
06-24-2005, 08:39 PM
Play, you suck cow titties!
And your dumb :D

STOP THIS NOW. Keep on topic.

Audi90Quattro
06-24-2005, 09:28 PM
Would have been very interesteing if you would have stuck a backpressure gauge before the cat, and taken a reading. Compare that to a reading that you would get with the holes drilled, and see if it helped reduce backpressure. You also could have just stuck a vacuum guage on a manifold vac source and looked at your numbers to see if your cat was really clogged or not. Im not bashing or anything, just saying that if you would have posted a question or even googled on how to check for a clogged cat/exhaust system you could have gotten an answer and checked a whole lot easier/faster then going through the work you did.

Also if you know that your cat was clogged, have you looked into the reason that it died? Cats are made to last the life of the vehicle, but burning oil, running rich, excessive heat from the engine,etc. can kill a cat.

Interesting idea on drilling the holes, a whole lot easier than gutting a cat with a metal rod. At first after reading your first post, I thought you just drilled into the honeycomb through the case, and had the exhaust coming out underneath the car.

Also I dont think that too many of the regulars got out of hand. They were provoked by some of the others and were defending themselves. I really dont see the need for other members to come in this thread and drop f bombs and jump down knowledgeable peoples throats. If you dont have anything to say maturely, dont say it at all. It really does drop your credability when you start acting like a kid, no matter how much you may know.

alltracman78
06-24-2005, 11:39 PM
STOP THIS NOW. Keep on topic.

sorry

Punisher
06-25-2005, 02:59 AM
Eh.. I coulda done this or that.. but I didn't.. I was actually pretty interested in seeing the whole manifold/cat design anyway..

As for the death of a converter.. I'm aware of the factors.. I do burn oil.. on start up I usually get a cloud out.

cmcustom
06-29-2005, 04:12 PM
will a manifold from a camry 5sfe fit onto a celica 5sfe thus eliminating that horrendeous manifold mounted cat allowing me to mount a front exaust pipe to 2 1/2 straight pipe to a muffler extended just behind the passenger door?

Punisher
06-29-2005, 05:23 PM
what year camry?

cmcustom
06-29-2005, 05:52 PM
i'm not sure i was asking the question for myself but i have a 93 5sfe and i looked on ebay the other day and the 93 camry 5sfe manifold looked like it would mount up but it didn't have the cat , just a front pipe.

Galcobar
06-29-2005, 11:16 PM
The 1998 Camry manifold Hooligan mounted includes the catalytic converter, or more accurately came with one attached.

You want a cheap header, use the 4-2-1 stocker off a 3SGE (e.g. 89 GTS). Then you can mount a high-flow cat under the body in the mid-pipe.

One question -- why are you using 2.5" on a 5SFE?

cmcustom
06-29-2005, 11:52 PM
will be racing it at high rpm mostly 2nd and third gear

xeril
06-30-2005, 06:48 AM
That's completely gutted tho

yet, someone stated a completely gutted cat would be more of a hindrance.. causing flow issues...

OSU_Celica
06-30-2005, 06:57 AM
Damn straight.

OSU_Celica
06-30-2005, 07:19 AM
sorry about that last post, was on a different page and didn't notice that they're were later posts. lol

OSU_Celica
06-30-2005, 07:21 AM
BTW, the problem with gutting the cat is that the exhaust gases expand there so you lose pressure and velocity right?

Galcobar
06-30-2005, 08:38 AM
Read here: http://www.magnaflow.com/05news/magazine/05sportc.asp


TO CAT OR NOT TO CAT
Whatever you do, do not remove or gut out the catalytic converter on your street machine. The monolithic, straight-through design of modern three-way catalytic converters is usually quite free flowing on most modern imports, producing at the most, only a pound or two of extra backpressure. A gutted cat can actually hurt power as the empty box can cause flow stagnation, which effectively shortens the length of the moving gas column in the exhaust pipe. The empty box can also reduce important flow velocity. This can be felt as loss in bottom-end power.

Because of these factors, it is not unusual for cars to actually gain power with the addition of a cat. If every last bit of power must be extracted, as in real, off-the-street sanctioned racing, then the cat can be removed and replaced with a length of pipe the same diameter of the rest of the exhaust system, not simply gutted to a power robbing shell. A full race turbo or nitrous oxide system can benefit from removing the cat when racing levels of boost or nitrous are being run. Boost or nitrous flow levels you would run on the street on pump gas are not enough to warrant cat removal for performance gain.

If you need to change your factory cat for a larger, high-flowing one, Random Technology and MagnaFlow make replacement cats with 3-inch or even larger inlets and outlets.

xeril
06-30-2005, 04:10 PM
yet.. people have seen dyno'd proof that gutting the cat bumped up the horsepower, almost to the amount of a 3inch aussie dp.. bleh, whatevahs

Snafu
06-30-2005, 04:18 PM
yet.. people have seen dyno'd proof that gutting the cat bumped up the horsepower, almost to the amount of a 3inch aussie dp.. bleh, whatevahs

Bullshit. A test pipe of the same diameter will almost always perform better. You see a lot of drag cars running cats, don't you :ugh:

fiveSFE
07-01-2005, 05:21 AM
Bullshit. A test pipe of the same diameter will almost always perform better. You see a lot of drag cars running cats, don't you :ugh:

his statement was not bs, he is comparing a gutted cat wit a downpipe, not a testpipe.

xeril
07-01-2005, 06:43 AM
yeah.. to be clear, i was talking about gutted downpipe vs. aussie downpipe.. meepmeeeeeep!!!