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st205
06-08-2005, 03:16 AM
how much horse power does the JDM 3sgte 2nd gen have?

VS

how much horse power does the USDM 3sgte 2nd gen have?

this is where im confused...people say they are the same...i thought that the USDM had 200HP vs the JDM had 205HP? WTH...let me know celica enthusiasts...

Rayme
06-08-2005, 03:32 AM
200 HP for america and 225 everywhere else

alltracman78
06-08-2005, 03:48 AM
I believe only Japan was 225. The rest was 205 or 200.

All the power comes from the ecu. The timing is more advanced to take advantage of the higher octane.

TEAMFaint
06-08-2005, 04:52 AM
I believe only Japan was 225. The rest was 205 or 200.


I have to agree with alltracman78. Over in Great Brit the HP was the same as USDM: 200.

Japan was the lucky one who got all the power, 225 horsies.

Mr E
06-08-2005, 05:09 AM
But the 225bhp lump was in the RC/CS cars. With a better intercooler so more boost.

2nd gen lumps in carlos seinz ST185s had similar power to JDM ST185RCs....

Lagos
06-08-2005, 05:33 AM
its a pretty true number from what ive seen on mr2oc. just figure that any jdm 3s will dyno about 20hp more then the usdm one with the same boost/mods

xeril
06-09-2005, 01:48 AM
I believe only Japan was 225. The rest was 205 or 200.

All the power comes from the ecu. The timing is more advanced to take advantage of the higher octane.

different scale for octane.. their 98 ~ our 93 or something like that. i believe its different fuel maps though.. i should get a jdm ecu.. running jdm engine+harness with usdm ecu.. just because i made the mistake of thinking that japanese fuel was higher octane. MEH!

alltracman78
06-09-2005, 02:54 AM
Different scale, but higher octane is much more readily available over there.
And people are more wiling to use it.

Fuel and timing maps are different, as far as I've been able to read.

xeril
06-13-2005, 07:31 AM
we used to have 94 octane at the pump at sunocos? in my area.. but i think just recently, they've backed down to 93.. bleh..

Freeze
06-13-2005, 03:49 PM
Yeh, in Japan they have access to up to 100 octane I believe. Most cars use either 95 or 98 though, I believe.

oneof81
06-13-2005, 04:15 PM
we used to have 94 octane at the pump at sunocos? in my area.. but i think just recently, they've backed down to 93.. bleh..

Make a trip over here. Still available here at the tank. You can get 110 octane too...........but not at the pump.

Iceblue92
06-14-2005, 09:49 AM
Hey Oneof81, is that a valentine one one your dash? If so how well do you think it works? I've seen them advertised and I'm real curious.

Punisher
06-14-2005, 02:31 PM
Sunoco's around here still pump 94... Which is insane.. they got 87, 89, 93 and 94... lol.. I heard some mid-west states Sunoco offers like an 85 economy octane too!

Sooo.. the only reason JDM shit is better is because of more aggressive fuel maps.. does this mean that JDM motors typically get lower gas mileage than the USDM equivellant?

Is the actual motor itself the exact same thing from 2nd gen JDM to 2nd gen USDM (other than EGR)???

Could the USDM motor be used with the JDM results and yeild the JDM motor output?

Either way with boost ya gotta use atleast 93 octane.. Just that the USDM motors are easier to get ahold of and cheaper.

alltracman78
06-14-2005, 02:45 PM
Sooo.. the only reason JDM shit is better is because of more aggressive fuel maps.. does this mean that JDM motors typically get lower gas mileage than the USDM equivellant?
Dunno


Is the actual motor itself the exact same thing from 2nd gen JDM to 2nd gen USDM (other than EGR)???
Yes, the engine in the ST185 is the same for both [except for maybe CS/RC]


Could the USDM motor be used with the JDM results and yeild the JDM motor output?
Don't see why not.


Either way with boost ya gotta use atleast 93 octane.. Just that the USDM motors are easier to get ahold of and cheaper. Actually, it's 91 or higher. :D

Punisher
06-15-2005, 03:09 AM
Well, you tell me which gas station pumps 91 :)

Here it is either 87, 89, 93 or 94... lol

Ok, so maybe what I will do is get a USDM 2nd gen with USDM harness.. then get a JDM 2nd gen ECU.. Sound like that will play nice together?

If I gotta use the higher octane to begin with, I might as well go with an ECU that is gonna put out more aggressive ignition/fuel maps.

Later on when I start playing with electronic goodies I can make my own maps from the JDM ECU setup so that way I can run it a little less to get better mileage if I'm just cruising or switch to a more intense setup depending on the turbo setup I go with.. etc.

It's just good to know that the USDM and JDM are the same deal internally... I know things like the JDM 4AGZE and USDM 4AGZE are different internally.. the JDM being superior. That is why I had my doubts about the USDM 3S and JDM 3S being the same inside and out other than the ECU's.

Also, this will let me pipe the EGR directly into the exhaust system so I don't have to fuck with that stuff.. and if I use the JDM ECU I won't have any adverse side affects.. like pinging, which is the problem I have with my 5S now.. I have to pull the timing back since I don't have EGR connected.

Punisher
06-15-2005, 03:21 AM
Does the 2nd gen USDM have a distributorless ignition? Does the JDM have it? Any small differences like that...?

Any differences in the year makes of the USDM 2nd gen that would make one year better than the other? Or are they all the same deal?

alltracman78
06-15-2005, 03:31 AM
First off, you will have to do some wire swapping if you use a USDM harness with a JDM ecu.
Ignition, all that crap is the same. Only difference is no EGR [on 2nd g]

Wiring is different on the 90/91 and 92/93 USDM ecus. MR2s are a little different. I think 90, 91/92, and 93/94/95? Not positive.
Supposedly the 93^ ecu has a higher fuel cut. I think it's supposed to be like 14 or 15 psi. Somewhere around that. I'm running ~13.5 psi on my 93 ecu, with no fuel cut. One of these days I'll have to see where it is exactly.

Punisher
06-15-2005, 03:36 AM
Ok, so my plans are.. get a 2nd gen USDM 3SGTE along with harness.. I guess I'll probably just use the USDM ECU to make it all simple.

What is generally the best year of the 2nd gen? I don't know where the 2nd started and ended.. But I'd assume the most recent year would be the best? Or they didn't make any changes during the years?

alltracman78
06-15-2005, 03:41 AM
Ok, so my plans are.. get a 2nd gen USDM 3SGTE along with harness.. I guess I'll probably just use the USDM ECU to make it all simple.

What is generally the best year of the 2nd gen? I don't know where the 2nd started and ended.. But I'd assume the most recent year would be the best? Or they didn't make any changes during the years?
90-93 in the Alltrac.
90-95 in the MR2.

Engine wise?
I don't believe so.
I guess if you can find it, get a 93 ecu/harness. Or a 92/93 harness and a 93?^MR2 ecu

One note. The MR2s came with a oil level sensor in the oil pan. The Alltracs didn't. I don't know if a MR2 ecu would throw a code if it didn't get a reading....

Punisher
06-15-2005, 03:47 AM
Doubtful I'd be able to get anything 93+ engine wise out of an MR2... not for cheap.. However, Alltrac is in a way just as "rare".

WHatever I do I'm going to keep it matched.. if I get an MR2 3S I'll get the MR2 ECU... Would the MR2 harness work on my car? I don't believe it would.. not with out a lot of custom wiring.. WHich is what I want to stay away from.. I've had my fair share of that shit..

I want this to be a one day project (chuckles) But basically, rip 5S out.. drop 3S in.. engine harness in.. ECU in.. vroom vroom.. obviously lots of other hardware/mechanical things to do but electrical wise I want it as straight-forward as possible.

alltracman78
06-15-2005, 04:11 AM
Heh, you still have to wire in the 3rd ecu plug....
The 5S chassis harness doesn't have it. I believe. Prolly check the swap thread to see.

Ease of installationwise, I would try to find a 90/91. The wiring should be closer, pin for pin, to your GTS.

Beyond the harness, ecu, and engine, you will need the map sensor, air flow meter, and some relays. Also, the fusebox, if it doesn't come on your harness.

Also, the coils. 90/91 Alltracs had a different coil. connectors are the same, but the inside [resistance?] is different than the 92/93. Which is the same as the 90/91 5SFE coil.I forget on the igniters.

That's all I can think of tonite. I'm going to bed. Got a early day tomorrow. I'll hit this thread up later if you have any more ques.