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Cetra3
05-28-2005, 06:00 PM
hey, i just bought some pioneer 5 way 6 x 9's, and i was wondering what the best way is to mount them in the rear speaker slot is, i have a lift back with that removable parcel shelf that i would preferably not like to touch because i have a neon in the back that shines the way through when i open the door,

so what's the best way of replacing the stock rear speakers with these ones?

MoralWarfare
05-28-2005, 06:04 PM
best way to mount them: back in their packaging and returned to the store.

Cetra3
05-28-2005, 06:13 PM
Why is that? is there something wrong with those pioneer speakers?

MoralWarfare
05-28-2005, 06:16 PM
there's something wrong with 5 way speakers in the rear. You should only have midbass present in rear speakers, it gives much better depth to your music. The rear of a car is only to be used as filler for the fronts if you want a proper sounding stereo.

In addition, 6x9's design is awful. The ovular shape of the driver will distort sound to a certain degree, as sound is not designed to be emitted in an oval. If you were to use the 6x9's however, I would suggest doing what you can to mount them on your rear deck. If this is impossible, there's some cutting and such you will have to do to mount them in the stock position.

Cetra3
05-28-2005, 06:21 PM
so sound was designed hey? well you learn something new every day :P

the whole point of the 5 way is to increase clarity and atmosphere, not to add treble to the back, just normal 6 x 9's don't sound too flash, but these will do the job quite nicely i think

MoralWarfare
05-28-2005, 06:27 PM
excuse me for my poor diction. Good luck.

Galcobar
05-28-2005, 06:41 PM
Sound image -- where's the sound coming from when you got to a concert?

The reason you put mid-bass or lower behind you is because it's harder for the human ear to determine the source of low frequency noises. The rear tweeters you see on the system 10 are just for the rear-seat passengers.

Best design of all would be to take the system 10 and add a centre-channel front speaker (as in where the radio is now). It's been done, though I'm not enough of an audiophile to consider it -- but I want the system 10 door panels so I can mount enough speakers in front to move the sound image from behind my head.

Cetra3
05-28-2005, 06:44 PM
lol, very technical and advanced, i'm just replacing the stock speakers with better ones :P, my front speakers also are pioneers and sound rather nice

Galcobar
05-28-2005, 06:49 PM
And aren't the rears circular 6.5"?

SilverCel
05-28-2005, 07:33 PM
Yes, our rears ARE 6.5".

In order for you to put 6X9's in the rear your going to have to HACK away at the sound box inside the rear panel. I'm not even sure you can hack a 6X9 into one of those boxes.

bitskyline
05-29-2005, 06:28 AM
stay 6.5 i did and i love em sound better then ANY 6x9 i've EVER had!! 6.5 is sitll the best sounding speaker size..

Cetra3
05-29-2005, 06:47 AM
does anyone have any guides to the 6 x 9 conversion?

acidice333
05-29-2005, 07:00 AM
I do.
Package them back up, find your receipt, goto the store, get a refund, get 6.5" speakers (: I'mnot sure what a guide is for..just take out the stock speakers and hack away at the sound box dodad till it fits and screws on (: I myself wouldnt do that- it would just look nasty and retro with 6x9 speakers

Slider
05-29-2005, 08:13 AM
does anyone have any guides to the 6 x 9 conversion?

You could get these boxes http://www.crutchfield.com/S-XKzbzlecIpO/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=766&I=044QL69W
And wedge them by the back window if you don't wanna cut anything.

Galcobar
05-29-2005, 10:22 AM
The system is configured for those 6.5" in ported enclosures -- going to a 6x9 is going to screw up the tuning of the enclosure -- and if the wiring is the same as the system 10, which as far as I know it is, the 6.5 are wired as mid-bass drivers with a 6 dB crossover, which will also be compromised by the 6x9" configuration.

Cetra3
05-29-2005, 04:20 PM
yeah well, i'm going to bypass whatever's in there and add an amp, i don't have the stock deck, i have a kenwood 4 channel x 50w. and tuning? well it's not really that well tuned as it is....

Doctor Jinxed
05-29-2005, 05:23 PM
It's pretty well tuned, I'd say.

Ramming 6x9's in that space is gonna screw up the acoustics of the ported enclosure psace like galcobar said.

If you wanna keep the 6x9's, that's great, but putting them in that location isn't really gonna do you good.

85gtsblackman
06-01-2005, 03:41 AM
i have 6x9s in the rear deck of my celi

wait u have a hatch

nevermind

Doctor Jinxed
06-01-2005, 04:32 AM
i have 6x9s in the rear deck of my celi
heeeyyy... that's where I was planning on moving my pair of 6x9's once I can have a box custom made for my subs. How do they sound up there?

85gtsblackman
06-01-2005, 04:53 AM
let u know by the end of the week

the plywood section i made for the speakers i cut one of the holes to big for the speaker and i havent installed the baffles yet or sanded the rough metal edges

i have some 2 ways thats back there i plan to amp

Cetra3
06-14-2005, 09:38 AM
i have now purchased my amp which i shall put on the left rear passenger seat, their is PLENTY of room to mount a speaker where the stock 6.5"s go, the only thing taking up the space was the amp that came with the car, which i dont want to use, i am going to grab some cardboard and make a mould so i can mount my speakers in that space, they are 6 x 9's, and since noone's done this before i guess i might make a guide up since noone has helped me,

at the moment my car has no back seats coz i had to get the plastic off, looks kinda funny, i got some nice 8 gauge wire from the engine and i have a fuse that is heaps big, i just got some $30 amp wiring kit from repco which came with all the wires and stuff,

here's what i have in terms of sound at the moment;

kenwood 4 channel 50w x 4 rms deck
4" pioneer 2way speakers,
6 x 9" 5-way pioneer speakers,
600w 4 channel bridgeable pioneer amp,

I plan on getting either one or two 12" pioneer subs, but that's when i have more money, hence why i got the big amp

anyways i'll let you know how the installation goes.

Galcobar
06-14-2005, 09:48 AM
The only system that came with an amp was the system 10 -- and those amps were mounted under the passenger seats.

85gtsblackman
06-14-2005, 06:59 PM
hehe

heres my set up

infinity 2 way 4s

boston acustics tweets, i think one is dead :(

infinity 6.5's in the doors (i did this custom and i still have window cranks)

infinity 6.5 componets in the rear

some no name 2 way 6x9's in rear deck

jensen 300 watt amp(it was almost new for 20 bux at a yard sale)

kicker 600 watt amp


I OWN JOO :bigthumbu

2 rockford 10s

Murgatroy
06-15-2005, 03:04 AM
Pioneer speakers suck heavily in enclosures (such as what the Celica has.) 5 way 6x9s... I think the foolishness of this has been covered... it was a waste of money for the back. 6x9s are crappy speakers anyways. If you want to go through all that effort you should at least get speakers that are going to be good, not less than mediocre.

The speakers I have found that sound the best are FACTORY size Infinitys. Infinitys pwn j00. I will not run any other speaker in a ride I care about sound quality in. For my Mustang I don't care as long as I have sounds, but in Chaos I want the best SQ I can get.

Please, don't hack your car up to stuff substandard crap in it. I can understand your desire to be different or better, but you are not going to accomplish either by putting those speakers back there, no matter how much juice you push to them. We really need to move as a community away from crappy mods just to be different... I see too many cars with crappily fit body kits still in primer with too large rims and fart can mufflers thinking they have a PIMP street ride.

/rant

Sorry. I just can't tolerate stupidity. Ignorance is ok, but you have been told the error of you ways, so if you still put the speakers in your car you have crossed from ignorance to stupidity.

/rant for real this time.

Cetra3
06-22-2005, 06:57 PM
Infinitys pwn j00 great argument..

Murgatroy
06-22-2005, 08:40 PM
I actually thought I made a valid case and point. If the fact that I prefer one brand over another and like to say that over the internet in a commonly accepted manner of speech makes that an invalid arguement, you need to grow the fuck up.

Have a nice day. :D

Cetra3
06-23-2005, 06:18 AM
Ok, anyways apart from murgatroy and his PH.d in sound technology :P , anyone else have any criticism they'd like to give me for some weird reason although the original point of this thread was to ask if there were any other fellow owners of a celica that had succesfully mounted 6 x 9's as I thought it would be a common practice, but sorry for the confusion :)

bloodredgt
06-23-2005, 06:20 AM
best way to mount them: back in their packaging and returned to the store.

:laugh: :laugh: :stupid:

OR

you COULD cut holes on your rear panel where your passenger's heads will be and mount them there... but the will eventually rattle OR get jacked...

Cetra3
06-23-2005, 06:27 AM
you COULD cut holes on your rear panel where your passenger's heads will be and mount them there... but the will eventually rattle OR get jacked...

precisely my reasoning for mounting them in a less visible place, and the amp is going in the boot so noone will be able to see them.

Murgatroy
06-23-2005, 06:30 AM
Actually it is only a bachelor's degree. ;) And it is in Electronic engineering. ;) Yes, that makes me a little cocky see, cause I have a good feeling that makes me better qualified on the subject of SQ and SPL than you. ;) Just a hair.

I am not trying to be an ass, I am just trying to explain that you will get better sound quality from a comparable 6.5 ROUND speaker as opposed to an oval speaker/ The oval speaker, especially a 5 way, is not going to reproduce the mids and lows as faithfully as a round speaker would. There will be too much distortion. The tweets will get in the way and create a slight humming, or buzz at the lower frequencies.

And that is without even getting into the fitment issues that will also detract from sound quality. You have to have a tight enclosure (Pioneers are notoriously shit in an enclosure) else you will have speaker hum coming from the gaps around it. The sound will not project as well either if there is not a solid backing for it reflect off of.

I am not trying to be an ass, honestly, I am trying to save you from making a mistake and having a sub par sound system in your ride. If you are going to spend the money, please do it right, you will be much happier with the results. Even if you do not prefer Infinity (have you ever listened to them?) go with a high quality speaker in your FACTORY location. That means factory size as well. It will fit perfect and not cause any issues.

And please, do yourself the favor and listen to a set of Infinitys. Go to Circuit City or a local sound shop and have them turn a pair on for you, even the Reference Series will be good enough for you to see the difference I am talking about. And they will be around the same price as you paid for the top of the line Pioneer 5 ways.

And if you still think I am being an ass, I am sorry, it is not your feelings I am trying to spare, it is your car. ;) I don't want the common passer by to see you hack job in your Celica and think that all tuners are that way.

Thank You. :D

Cetra3
06-23-2005, 06:35 AM
Infinity speakers aren't available for purchase in South Australia

bloodredgt
06-23-2005, 06:40 AM
^ the internet is your best friend in that case...

btw Infinities ARE by far some of the best speakers I've heard.

Murgatroy
06-23-2005, 06:42 AM
I didn't know that. What brands do you have down there? Pioneers just sound like crap when they are in a sealed enclosure. They need the air to breathe. I have heard good things about Alpine speakers, but the cost is a deterence for most. Polk makes a good speaker as well. I have not had personal experience outside of installing them, but they sound and the stats are impressive.

Don't get me wrong. IMHO Pioneer makes the greatest headunits, it is just thier speakers that I have always found lacking.

Hooligan
06-23-2005, 06:49 AM
The behavior of a couple of members in this thread has been brought to my attention and I will be keeping my eye on you guys.

Please, please, please take it easy.

Cetra3
06-23-2005, 08:55 AM
ok, well we have boss, kenwood, pioneer, sony, etc... that's pretty much it, i think we have alpine, but i've never ever heard of infinities here.

Murgatroy
06-23-2005, 09:06 AM
I don't think I have ever used Kenwood speakers. I do like thier headunits though, but I like Pioneers headunits to, but not speakers. The best way to do it would be to go to a local sound shop and listen to the speakers they have available. Then choose the ones that sound the best to you. For the rear of your vehicle though you don't need 5 ways. A simple woofer will do. The highs need to be in teh front of the vehicle. The rear is just for staging and adding body to the music. Your ears will face the front, thus you won't be able to pick up the highs and nuances in the music if it is coming from the rear, thus wasting the power to push the 5 ways and muddying the clarity of the bass and mids.

I unfortunately can not think of a logical way to keep the 6x9s and use them to thier full potential (even if they are Pioneers,) to make use of the 5 ways you would want them so they could face you, like in a kick panel in your floor board, but the size of the speakers prevents that from being feasible. You could take a piece of plywood and fit in in your boot, near the back and postion it at an angle and then mount the speakers there, but if you have subs between you and the speakers it would nullify them. I still advise against putting them in the factory rear spots.

I wish I had something better to tell you since you already have the speakers, but unfortunately I don't see a logical way to incorporate them into your system, and have them add to it instead of detract.

Slider
06-23-2005, 09:15 AM
Here's my 2 cents Go with 6.5" component speakers power by an amp in the front door panels. In the back stick either leave the stock 6.5s or stick some aftermarket ones and power them by the headunit. You don't want the rear speakers overpowering the fronts in the back, unless they're subwoofers since the human ear can't really tell the direction of lower frequencies, think it's below 100hz or 80hz, something around there. This is just a suggestion for what would sound better.

Classique71
06-23-2005, 11:50 AM
ok, well we have boss, kenwood, pioneer, sony, etc... that's pretty much it, i think we have alpine, but i've never ever heard of infinities here.

Boston acoustics , eclipse , focal - all reputable brands available in oz dude - Im going focals and eclipses myself - like the guys said - 6.5.s in the back , components up front

Galcobar
06-23-2005, 12:43 PM
Cetra, the reason you're not getting a lot of help on what you assumed was a common modification is that for good reason it's been avoided.

The System 10 was quite probably the best stock sound system of its day, and is still one of the best you'll find outside of the high-luxury class. The problem is that you and I have only 6/10 of the System 10 -- we're missing the rear tweeters and door subs, the combined lack of which detract from the proper front-first sound image the full system provided.

Being technical is a good thing when you're talking about trying to achieve a specific objective.

Out of all the commentary/flaming/arguement that's gone on in this thread, three points are clear:
1) 6.5 are better speakers than 6x9 when of comparable construction
2) the stock enclosure is tuned to a 6.5 mid-bass woofer, and therefore will be out of tune with a 6x9 five-way speaker
3) speaker design is more important than speaker brand, but speaker brand is still important.

By the way, you need to clarify something for me: you said you found an amp in the sidepanels next to the rear speakers? If it was a plastic box that said, IIRC, 20 W, that was the tuned enclosure. If you are going to insist on using the 6x9 -- and I truly hope you don't -- please pay a lot of attention to the enclosure you build for them, and don't try to jury rig them into the stock enclosure.

MoralWarfare
06-23-2005, 04:28 PM
Here's my 2 cents Go with 6.5" component speakers power by an amp in the front door panels. In the back stick either leave the stock 6.5s or stick some aftermarket ones and power them by the headunit. You don't want the rear speakers overpowering the fronts in the back, unless they're subwoofers since the human ear can't really tell the direction of lower frequencies, think it's below 100hz or 80hz, something around there. This is just a suggestion for what would sound better.
~350Hz. Anything lower and the waves are larger than 8" and therefore your brain does not pick them up in stereo/where it is coming from.

3sgte@daspeedof
06-24-2005, 01:57 AM
You sound gurus, I'm looking for your two cents on my next system 10 to system 12 conversion.

components for the tweeters,(a & b pillar)
5.5 under the dash(can't remember the right size)
8" subs in the doors
6.5 in the rear
components for the rear tweeters( maybe relocated to the c & d pillar)
2 infinity1030w 10" subs (in the rear tire wells in the trunk)
btw Its a hatch

MoralWarfare
06-24-2005, 02:20 AM
why do you want a system 12? More drivers = more places sound comes from = waves mixing where and when they shouldn't = crappy sound.

Delete the rear tweeters for one, there should be absolute NO high frequencies present in the rear, it is used for mid and sub-bass only for rear fill (sub bass should be heard from the front with a system designed well enough). I would also suggest creating custom kick panel enclosures, but with a manual transimission the clutch may crowd your footspace, so just go with factory locations up front.

I would run your front dash drivers off of the amp, the doorspeakers off the amp, and your tweeters off the amp if you're using tweeters from the 5.5" components. The rear 6.5s run off of deck power as their position already sucks, and overpowering them will lead to crappy sound that is too rear biased.

Hit me up on AIM if you want some more in-depth explanations.

3sgte@daspeedof
06-24-2005, 02:35 AM
thanks will keep that in mind

3sgte@daspeedof
06-24-2005, 02:37 AM
I still want to put the subs in the trunk, cuse as you stated my clutch will get in the way

MoralWarfare
06-24-2005, 11:44 AM
i never said anything about subs in the front, but k!

3sgte@daspeedof
06-24-2005, 04:08 PM
kickpanel ones, that was what I thought you were implying

MoralWarfare
06-24-2005, 11:33 PM
ohhh, no. I mean put your front components in there. Look up Q-form enclosures :)

Cetra3
06-25-2005, 10:04 AM
well, the 5 ways were the best speakers at the 3 shops i went to, and yeah that amp only says like 4ohm 15 watt nominal and the speakers are just some noname brand that suck hard core, but they still sound okish, i want to hook up the front tweeters that came stock with the car but i heard that you need a high pass filter attached to the cable? coz i was going splice the fronts and run it off my deck aswell

alltracman78
06-25-2005, 01:23 PM
They will run off your headunit with a normal harness adaptor [ie bypassing sys 10].

Murgatroy
06-25-2005, 01:29 PM
I think you can pick up some inline filters that you just wire in. They aren't as efficient as a standalone crossover, but it will do the trick for your tweets. I have them run for my rears to cut the highs.

Cetra3
07-06-2005, 09:41 AM
OK I FINALLY MOUNTED THEM, bloody celicas have no space, but they sound awesome, almost as better as my 5.1 system in my room, but not quite complete yet....

yeah but it's sooooo crisp and so alive, and captivating, it's like your wearing headphones. Only thing now is to make it so i can feel the music aswell, i'm going to get a 12" or a 15", and just put it in the boot, any suggestions?

MoralWarfare
07-06-2005, 11:50 AM
mount them from the roof, with self tapping screws and superglue, and some styrofoam.

Slider
07-06-2005, 12:46 PM
Only thing now is to make it so i can feel the music aswell, i'm going to get a 12" or a 15", and just put it in the boot, any suggestions?

http://www.reaudio.com/ same quality stuff as JL audio but cheaper prices :bigthumbu

Playfortoday
07-06-2005, 01:59 PM
Why wasn't this moved to Audio? Moving to Audio.