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RelicCELIC
08-07-2017, 04:49 AM
Hi my name is Mark, and I have recently blew my rods in my daily 1992 Celica GT. I took this as a sign that its time for me to start building experience and experimenting so I can grow and better myself as an apprentice.

(I am currently in school for a tech in Canada and just finished level 1 so I have a little bit of knowledge. Not a whole lot of experience but I do have the capacity to learn)

I was thinking of just going all out and make my daily a project. With the encouragement of a few friends, I made the decision of sourcing a 3sgte and dropping it in my GT, and if possible converting it to 4WD (I read that the GT and GT-S have the same setup as the All Trac and the hole drive shaft is already there.) I was wondering if there was anything I should know and if you could recommend where I can get the parts from or just advice in general as I have never done anything like this before. Your help would be much appreciated. if you would like to continue privately. Thanks!

Edit: I know this probably has been asked many times but I havent found anything recent about this. So the market may be different. Which is why I am writing this now.

sefiro
08-07-2017, 04:59 AM
Find an alltrac in need of repairs and rebuild it. Your gt still need the engine, harness, computer, rear suspension/drive train etc. Pretty much replacing everything except the front suspension and transmission.

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RelicCELIC
08-07-2017, 05:42 AM
I found an engine online from a jdm source, its a complete engine with
"
Transmission 5 Speed Manual
ECU (Computer)
Alternator, Starter
Turbo Charger
Igniter Pack
AC and PS Pumps
Coilpacks
Intake and Exhaust manifolds
Uncut Wiring Harness
"

Murgatroy
08-07-2017, 11:33 AM
The 3SGTE will drop right in to your GT and bolt right up to your transmission. You will not be able to use the AWD transmission without major modifications. You will need to rewire the wiring harness a bit to make it all work.

You can convert it to AWD too, the easiest way to to convert it to money, by selling it, then using the money to buy an Alltrac.

The hard way is to buy an Alltrac shell, cut the rear pans out of it then use them in place of the rear pans on your car. The FWS 5th gen doe not have any provisions for the rear suspension, routing for the driveshaft (as that is where the exhaust goes) or room for the gas tank.

We have an entire subforum dedicated to swapping the 3SGTE. It contains well over 20 years of accumulated knowledge.

We have one simple answer on 5th Gen AWD conversions: Nope.

bloodMoney
08-07-2017, 03:20 PM
FYI: The 94-99 Celicas are the models that have the correct floorpan to accommodate the driveshaft. Not the 5th gen.

Even despite that, there is currently, no direct bolt-in solution to convert any FWD Celica to AWD.

I do hope you still decide to do the 3s swap though. Totally worth it.

RelicCELIC
08-07-2017, 06:36 PM
Hmmm seems like the logical thing to do at my skill level would just be bolting the 3sgte on to the fwd tranny and go from there. i might just do that. but i am having trouble sourcing an engine as i live in canada and most of the 3s engines are in the states.. :( any idea what i can do? The engine i found previously was based in the states and i was told by a friend that i wont be able to ship it here to canada

4thgenceli
08-07-2017, 06:59 PM
There are importers in Canada. ChrisD may have a suggestion for you.

Nitro_Alltrac
08-08-2017, 12:12 AM
I've found quite a few importers in Canada.

If you're going to the swap, research doing the 4th gen 3S. It will require harness work but it's worth it. There's a company in Georgia that will do the harness. Search for Wire Gap.

http://www.wiregapinc.com/

pintoBC_3sgte
08-09-2017, 04:05 AM
Where in Canada are you??
I got my gen.4 3s from jdm source out of Calgary last year. Very helpful and easy to deal with!

pintoBC_3sgte
08-09-2017, 04:14 AM
http://m.ebay.ca/itm/JDM-Toyota-3S-GTE-Caldina-Engine-ST215-3SGTE-MR2-Celica-/172802355809?hash=item283bd2b261%3Ag%3AFYYAAOSwWhR ZgKvC&_trkparms=pageci%253A06df4955-7cb9-11e7-abbf-74dbd180e001%257Cparentrq%253Ac5320e8f15d0aa18b50f 5172fffefeb2%257Ciid%253A1

This is from jdm source, just listed on eBay. This is how I found mine and I called them about it and got it that way.

Damn! Way lower mileage then the one I got!

RelicCELIC
08-09-2017, 06:07 AM
I am in BC!

RelicCELIC
08-09-2017, 06:30 AM
I going to start pulling my motor this week! i got a friend to lend me a crane, I was wondering what other tools i would need!!!!

RelicCELIC
08-09-2017, 07:03 AM
I ordered the engine, damn i am so excited

pintoBC_3sgte
08-09-2017, 01:39 PM
Nice! Which engine did you go with? Where in BC are you?

Edit: nice just saw you got the one I posted!

RelicCELIC
08-09-2017, 06:21 PM
Vancouver. also the engine doesnt come with the harness or the ecu. any idea what ecu i should use?

sefiro
08-09-2017, 09:49 PM
You need the ecu for 3sgte. The engine requires different injector firing, timing, and controls unique to the engine. As a result, you'll also need the matching wire harness as the plugs for the ecu are different between gt and gte

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pintoBC_3sgte
08-09-2017, 10:06 PM
Needs to be a gen.4 ecu and wire harness.

Post here with what you need. I'm sure someone can help.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1689205104682915/?fref=nf

underscore
08-10-2017, 05:15 AM
The engine i found previously was based in the states and i was told by a friend that i wont be able to ship it here to canada

I'm not sure who told you that, but for future reference they're wrong. It's a hassle to do thanks to shipping costs, but it's completely doable.

RelicCELIC
08-10-2017, 08:03 AM
would a 5th gen 3sgte ecu work? like the one below? (sorry can post link but it should be the first one to pop up on google)

Toyota Caldina ST246 3S-GTE Denso Engine Computer ECU GEN5 Oem Jdm used

I tried to find a 4th gen ecu but I am having no luck at all :(

4thgenceli
08-10-2017, 03:38 PM
would a 5th gen 3sgte ecu work? like the one below? (sorry can post link but it should be the first one to pop up on google)

Toyota Caldina ST246 3S-GTE Denso Engine Computer ECU GEN5 Oem Jdm used

I tried to find a 4th gen ecu but I am having no luck at all :(

I did a little research into the 5th gen 3SGTE but decided against it. If I remember right the ST246 ECU has a chip disabler. This requires a special key transmitter to make it work. You would be better off finding the gen4 one. It'll be less headache when it comes to wiring and stuff.

Personally, I think you jumped the gun on buying that motor. You can usually find a good ST215 motor, ecu and harness for around the same price that you paid for just the motor. You can always call other importers and see if they have just the ECU/Harness available.

RelicCELIC
08-14-2017, 05:55 PM
the engine does have the harness i think, its just cut. How short? i dont know but the engine is gonna come in today or tomorrow so ill upload a photo of it.. I might have to get individual harness though.. :( hopefully its long enough, but do you guys know that if i am gonna need my original harness from the 5sfe? i also already ordered the gen4 ecu :)

RelicCELIC
08-14-2017, 06:00 PM
also I am having a little bit of trouble with the fuse box, I cant unplug the individual wires. do i use a pin? thanks

sefiro
08-14-2017, 07:30 PM
Most of the fuse box wires are pigtail snap ins. The wires for the larger fuses are bolted in. These larger fuse/wires are connected through a plastic base that can be unclipped from the rest of the fuse box (and pushing down). You can then gain easy access to all the bolts.

Wiring harness for 5sfe and gte are different. Different ecu pigtail, extra sensor(s), different sensor location etc.

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pintoBC_3sgte
08-14-2017, 08:40 PM
You will need your 5 s harness, your harness shouldn't be cut from the engine you are getting. Both harnesses will be sent out to make one new harness. Look up wiregap for the conversion, or you can go thru prime , which uses wiregap

pintoBC_3sgte
08-14-2017, 08:47 PM
Also, with your new engine, I would recommend doing some maintenance items, like new seals, hfh, hfhoe... etc. Also a known issue is the bottom left manifold stud will be snapped or broken, so might want to replace the studs while it's out of the bay.
Fuel pump should be upgraded as well.

pintoBC_3sgte
08-14-2017, 08:49 PM
Oh, you will also need to run a fmic, unless you have a all-trac hood

RelicCELIC
08-15-2017, 01:57 AM
hmm would it be hard to fit a fmic? i heard all trac hoods are quite expensive LOL i am running low on funds

pintoBC_3sgte
08-15-2017, 02:20 AM
It shouldn't be hard to do a fmic.

RelicCELIC
08-15-2017, 07:09 AM
Also after i remove the engine I am pretty much going into it blind, I have never done this before so any knowledge you guys can share would definitely help me toms, engine is shipping in tomorrow so ill take a picture of it and upload it, also ill upload the problem i have with removing the fuse box.. again thank you guys so much :)

4thgenceli
08-15-2017, 02:34 PM
Take a good gander at the Forced Induction forum. There is good info in the stickies as well as just in general threads there.

The worst thing is the wiring. I would strongly suggest outsourcing it to someone (WireGap, Tweak, etc). The actual physical swap is cake. Should take about 4 hours from start to finish (dropping old motor and installing the new one). From experience I would suggest removing the exhaust manifold and installing the motor without the exhaust/turbo manifold. It's not too hard to install this after the fact and you'll save your radiator from any unnecessary damages (unless you remove the radiator to remove the engine).

FMIC isn't too hard to do. You're looking about $250-300 one. I don't remember offhand the intercooler I put on but it was plenty to run the Caldina motor.

pintoBC_3sgte
08-15-2017, 04:47 PM
Tweak doesn't deal with 3s anymore, last I asked he didn't at least

RelicCELIC
08-16-2017, 02:40 AM
i am just worried about space for fmic

edit, nvm done some research.. i should be fine :D

underscore
08-16-2017, 05:02 PM
(unless you remove the radiator to remove the engine)

Why wouldn't you pull the rad? The hoses are already disconnected, it's only 2 bolts and 2 electrical connectors holding it in at that point and then you have loads more room.

4thgenceli
08-16-2017, 05:09 PM
Why wouldn't you pull the rad? The hoses are already disconnected, it's only 2 bolts and 2 electrical connectors holding it in at that point and then you have loads more room.

Some people don't. I've pulled and replaced my motor with it in place. I just slid a piece of cardboard in there to keep it from getting hit.

sefiro
08-17-2017, 02:00 AM
Done it both ways, prefer to take it out. More room for ratchets etc

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RelicCELIC
08-17-2017, 02:16 AM
So my engine came in! I am pretty excited. Anyways I remember reading ChrisD's swap and he needed to grind and drill his frame and mounts in order to fit his 3sgte, I was wondering if i needed to as well but his swap was in a st165 and mine is the st185.

Theres also this metal plate that sits around where my flywheel is suppose to be and its bent.. Should I get a knew plate or could I just hammer it flat?.. I honestly have no idea what it is
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20935007_10154715576181674_8746520796723946594_o.j pg?oh=9b5ca24995e64bda7371e46bf892641d&oe=5A270033

The wiring harness isnt cut as short as I thought, gonna take it off and send it to wire gap when I have time :D
https://scontent-sea1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/20819175_10154715581321674_724388271682222958_o.jp g?oh=a23c4eeb770acb5580fe8dd47f9790f2&oe=5A330EC7

Let me know what you guys think

pintoBC_3sgte
08-17-2017, 05:12 AM
No grinding and drilling frame is required.

RelicCELIC
08-17-2017, 08:03 AM
found this, would this fmic fit? I still need to find the pipings though :D

http://www.andysautosport.com/products/mishimoto__MMINT-UGB.html

sefiro
08-17-2017, 01:39 PM
The bent plate is a space cover to make up for the various transmissions that could be attached. You should see the gap when you mate your transmission. It can be bent back, but you might want to source another one or be prepared for done ingenious filler material.

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4thgenceli
08-17-2017, 02:25 PM
LIke the others said that plate is just a cover. You can take that one off the motor and use the one that is on your 5sfe.

You won't have to cut/drill anything. ChrisD had to do that because he has a monster in his alltrac. He has done a LOT of custom work to that beast. I'm still waiting for him to drive it down here to visit me. The only thing you may have to do is swap the motor mount brackets on the motor to the ones that were on the 5sfe. I had to run through this fiasco on my swap as well (including transmission mounts since I went with a non-standard transmission in my celica).

Mishimoto makes good radiators/intercoolers. For about the same price you can also get a Treadstone TR8 (thats what I used). It mounted up perfectly behind the bumper and only blocked about 1" of radiator.

pintoBC_3sgte
08-18-2017, 01:53 AM
If you are strapped for cash, I have a fmic from my previous build is let go for fairly cheap. I'll be in Coquitlam near the start of sept. For a weekend

RelicCELIC
08-18-2017, 07:38 AM
That would be great.. but hmm how do i contact ya? email me?
markzhao9090@gmail.com

RelicCELIC
08-18-2017, 08:10 AM
can i use the fuel inlet hose from the 5sfe fuel rail? the FUEL INLET HOSE from the 3sgte is cut and i dont really think i can find another one LOL

4thgenceli
08-18-2017, 01:43 PM
The 5sfe one should work. If its too short you can always have one made.

Funkycheeze
08-18-2017, 07:05 PM
I would just make one using some AN fittings, adapters and hose. That is what I did on Jon's car.

RelicCELIC
08-21-2017, 03:11 AM
i have a few more questions:

will i need a new fuse box? or can i still use my old one?

Also do I have to remove the drive shaft to pull out the motor? or can i just disconnect it.. on the service manual its just telling me to disconnect the drive shaft.

Where can I find fmic pippings? is there a kit out there or do you have to make everything custom?

Thanks guys!!

sefiro
08-21-2017, 03:19 AM
Just went through US FSM, yes, you can use the same fuse box and other body electrics.

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4thgenceli
08-21-2017, 03:10 PM
i have a few more questions:

will i need a new fuse box? or can i still use my old one?

Also do I have to remove the drive shaft to pull out the motor? or can i just disconnect it.. on the service manual its just telling me to disconnect the drive shaft.

Where can I find fmic pippings? is there a kit out there or do you have to make everything custom?

Thanks guys!!

You'll re-use the old fuse boxes from the 5sfe. You can wire it yourself or (highly suggested) have someone do it for you.

It's easier to pull everything, motor, transmission, etc and then put it back in. This way you can also take care of a new clutch kit as well and any other maintenance items you need to do.

You'll be better off just installing the motor and everything and then figuring out the pipes you need. There may be a kit available somewhere

ChrisD
08-22-2017, 01:43 PM
Yeah as said before, my grinding was a result of mating the 5S block to the AWD transmission. Also a giant clutch. You won't have this problem.

I'm glad you're sending the harness to WireGap. The Caldina harnesses are more of a pain to convert than the Gen 2/3 harnesses. It will save you 1000% of headaches. You will retain your original fuse box. As you go, keep asking questions. Quite a few of us have done several swaps and have run into almost anything that could happen along the way. Take your time, enjoy it. Also while you're in there, do some of those maintenance items like new gaskets and seals - so much easier before you put the motor back in!

ChrisD
08-22-2017, 01:46 PM
You won't have to cut/drill anything. ChrisD had to do that because he has a monster in his alltrac. He has done a LOT of custom work to that beast. I'm still waiting for him to drive it down here to visit me.

LOL Tim! I won't actually drive it! Life is easier when it sits there and stays pretty.

RelicCELIC
08-23-2017, 06:48 PM
Thanks Chris, I really appreciate it!

So I am going to remove the drive shaft today. This is probably a stupid question but would it be possible to just disconnect drive shafts/shaft without removing the whole thing?

Service manual says that i need a special tool to pull the tie rod. Could I just use a hammer? The special tool is about 300 dollars :(

Thanks friends.

pintoBC_3sgte
09-04-2017, 01:52 AM
LOL Tim! I won't actually drive it! Life is easier when it sits there and stays pretty.

You and Dean think alike! At the ogopogo, That's what he said him and his supra are like! Haha