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celica91gts
08-08-2016, 01:14 PM
Hey guys,

I'm having some problems with starting my fresh swap. I was super excited this weekend because the swap is basically done. Double checked all fluids and tried to turn her over. Nothing. dash and everything is getting power, i am getting fuel. pulled the fuel line and its squirting out. It wont even crank. i heard the starter click a few times and stopped after that so i thought it might be stuck. hit it lightly with a hammer a couple times but no go. so i pulled the starter and replaced it with a brand new one. still nothing. my next step is to measure the battery with a multi-meter and then check to make sure the starter is getting power.

-brand new optima red top
-wire harness by prime MR2

any ideas you guys?

4thgenceli
08-08-2016, 02:22 PM
Jump starter? Relay starter mod?

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4thgenceli
08-08-2016, 03:46 PM
Sorry that was from my phone while I was pooping this morning. If you tried to start it and it clicked once but not anymore that really sounds like the typical starter relay mod fix. To test to see if that's the problem I would pull the EFI fuses so fuel won't get to the injectors and then with the key in the ON position run a jumper wire from the B+ starter terminal to the signal wire terminal on the starter. That should crank the motor over. If it does then just do the hot start relay fix here.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v467/Rick88AllTrac/starterrelaydiagram.jpg

celica91gts
08-08-2016, 06:26 PM
Thank you. i will try that today after work and post back.

donteatbugs
08-09-2016, 10:28 AM
I hope the engine isnt locked up.

underscore
08-09-2016, 07:21 PM
Can you crank the engine over by hand? Where is the swap from?

ChrisD
08-10-2016, 09:13 PM
If it's not cranking then you're dealing with something in the starting circuit. I'd try jumping the starter manually and see if it turns. If it does, then turn the key on and jump again and see if it fires. Also might be worth trying to turn it by hand first like underscore mentions.

celica91gts
08-11-2016, 03:02 AM
So a good friend of mine and I got a multi meter and went at it. Found out it was a bad ground. The engine now cranks but wont turn over. The ignition coils are getting 12 volts. So gotta check for spark and fuel. Maybe the injectors are clogged. What is the easiest way to check for spark? Pull the ignition coil and see if there's spark when cranking it? Gotta check to see if fuel is going to fuel rail and see if the injectors are opening.

celica91gts
08-11-2016, 03:05 AM
I hope the engine isnt locked up.

Haha I thought so too. We have negative minds cuz we thought of the worst thing possible.

celica91gts
08-11-2016, 03:08 AM
If it's not cranking then you're dealing with something in the starting circuit. I'd try jumping the starter manually and see if it turns. If it does, then turn the key on and jump again and see if it fires. Also might be worth trying to turn it by hand first like underscore mentions.

This was really helpful, at first i thought the new starter i got was bad. They do sometimes come like that from orieleys. But hooked it up to a starter pack and it worked.

celica91gts
08-11-2016, 09:04 PM
Sprayed some carb cleaner in the throttle body and still wont turn over.

4thgenceli
08-11-2016, 09:20 PM
So..confusion.

Can you take a breaker bar and turn the engine over by turning the crank pulley bolt?

If not -- remove the spark plugs and try turning it over again.

If you still can't turn it over then its seized or jammed up on something. What did you do to the motor before you swapped it? Timing components, pistons, etc. I'd backtrack and check everything that was done to the motor before you installed it.

celica91gts
08-12-2016, 06:43 PM
So..confusion.

Can you take a breaker bar and turn the engine over by turning the crank pulley bolt?

If not -- remove the spark plugs and try turning it over again.

If you still can't turn it over then its seized or jammed up on something. What did you do to the motor before you swapped it? Timing components, pistons, etc. I'd backtrack and check everything that was done to the motor before you installed it.



I have done nothing to the motor except changing its fluids. Act flywheel. Southbend clutch package. And wiring harness from prime. I will try what you suggested. Thanks man

Funkycheeze
08-12-2016, 09:09 PM
How can an engine crank, but not turn over? So confused.

On the swap we did, it cranked but wouldn't actually fire - had spark (test for this first by pulling a coil and putting an old plug in it and touching the threads on the plug to a good ground like a shock tower bolt while you crank the engine over with the coil still connected to the harness) but the injectors were all stuck so they wouldn't fire at a lower idle pulse width. You can use a vehicle stethoscope to listen to each injector for the ticking as it fires. You can also try manually grounding each injector signal wire at the ECU to see if that makes the injector 'tick' which means it opens (but this doesn't check to see if it is too sticky to allow the engine to idle). The injectors we had would tick with this manual method but not tick when the engine was cranking, so we changed them and it started. One of the injectors was completely dead, wouldn't tick and resistance measurement was infinite (ST215 injectors should be around 14 ohms or so).

Also short the TC wire to ground to see if the ECM flashes out any codes on the engine light (this should be wired up as well, of course). The engine we had, after changing injectors would only run for a few seconds roughly and then die - the ECM would not flash out any codes. We changed the ECM and it ran great after that.

underscore
08-13-2016, 12:41 AM
For clarity: turning over means the engine internals are moving. Are you able to get the internals to move or not?


I have done nothing to the motor except changing its fluids. Act flywheel. Southbend clutch package. And wiring harness from prime. I will try what you suggested. Thanks man

Where is the motor from? Did you take it from a running, driving car or is it from an importer?

celica91gts
08-13-2016, 09:23 AM
Sorry. I think its cranking. I hear my starter work and turning my flywheel causing my engine to shake. That's cranking right? The engine just wont turn on and run. I got the engine from an importer. No proof of working car but before I bought it I did a compression test and it was 190 across 4 cylinders so figured it was good.

ChrisD
08-13-2016, 03:12 PM
OK, so you have it cranking and make good compression. That's 1 of 3 things you need. Next you need fuel and spark. Funkycheeze above gave you a quick run down on checking for those. Do the spark test first, it's pretty easy. From there we can check that your fuel pump is running and your injectors are firing. If not, then we look to see what might be preventing them.

underscore
08-13-2016, 03:49 PM
If you compression tested it then the internals should be good, and 190psi sounds excellent. If it didn't go bang at all with the carb cleaner sprayed in there my guess is no spark, but like Chris said check for both and see what's missing.

celica91gts
08-19-2016, 03:54 PM
tomorrow i will be able to work on the car after work. i got a hold of a noid light tester to check to see if my injectors are firing. i'll keep you all posted.

Funkycheeze
08-19-2016, 06:57 PM
Noid light will only tell you if the injectors are receiving a signal from the ECM to fire. You should use a stethoscope to listen to them to check the whole system. If they don't fire, do a resistance check.

celica91gts
08-19-2016, 09:28 PM
ok, thank you.

celica91gts
08-31-2016, 03:56 AM
So the car is not getting spark.

Stupid question but... Since the car used to be a cap and rotor with spark plugs wires and is now and coil pack the only thing that sends a signal for spark is the ecu correct? Only thing I can think of is maybe a bad crank position sensor or ecu maybe?

celica91gts
08-31-2016, 04:01 AM
I am looking for a wiring diagram for the caldina. You guys know where I could find one?

4thgenceli
08-31-2016, 04:06 AM
I have one. Lemme pull it

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celica91gts
08-31-2016, 04:32 AM
Thank you Tim. I really appreciate it.

4thgenceli
08-31-2016, 02:37 PM
Here's a couple:

Caldina Electrical information (http://ourlewisfamily.net/CaldinaPDF/Caldina%20Electrical.pdf)
Caldina Service Manual (http://ourlewisfamily.net/CaldinaPDF/ST215_Service_Manual.pdf) (Translated)

Funkycheeze
08-31-2016, 09:12 PM
Could be either cam sensor, crank sensor, ECU or something in the wiring to the coils. Ground the TC wire to see if it flashes out any codes (W wire must be connected to the dash engine warning light)

celica91gts
12-08-2016, 09:52 PM
Hey all, just wanted to thank everyone and update you all on the car. The car had a bad crank position sensor. After I got a new one I was able to get the car running only as long as I was spraying starter fluid into the throttle body. So I figured my gas sitting for three years needed to be cleaned out. I pulled the fuel pump and the gas was NASTY orange and smelt horrible. I dropped the fuel tank and got the tank professionally flushed. My fuel pump is a walbro 255 and the filter on it was really nasty so i figured i would get a supra fuel pump because i was happy with a stock 4th gen and would like a quieter fuel pump but the supra fuel pump is way too expensive. so i just got a replacement walbro 255.

Car runs now and needs a lot of tidying up. I have to reinstall the ECU (currently on passenger feet area).

A big issue is my tachometer is not functioning. Did any of you other 4th gen swap guys have this issue? There is a pin on my wiring harness that is labeled tach, but I dont know where to wire it.

Also my neighbors truck backing into my car leaving a good sized dent in my all trac hood... Bondo will crack after opening and closing my hood so i had to find a good body shop to cut and weld a new piece of metal and is currently being fixed.

thanks again everyone for your advice! you all have really helped me trouble shoot this project and finally its close to being road worthy.

Picture of my dent
http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q307/fieldplaya097/dent.jpg (http://s139.photobucket.com/user/fieldplaya097/media/dent.jpg.html)

pintoBC_3sgte
12-09-2016, 03:44 AM
you need either a msd tach converter or a 10k ohm resistor. more info here
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=48501

Funkycheeze
12-09-2016, 04:53 PM
The resistor needs to go into the instrument cluster - much easier to use a tach adapter, that is what we did.

celica91gts
12-14-2016, 01:05 PM
nice! thanks guys.

celica91gts
08-15-2017, 07:12 PM
Sorry for reviving dead thread. I finally got some things done in the car and now the last bit is to fix the tach. Just a clarifying question. Is there a difference between the msd tach adaptor and the msd tach converter?
I need this one right?
http://www.jegs.com/p/MSD-Ignition/MSD-Pro-Mag-Tach-Converter/753052/10002/-1

celica91gts
08-15-2017, 07:17 PM
work different products.
http://www.jegs.com/i/MSD/121/8910/10002/-1?CAWELAID=1710552390&CAGPSPN

pintoBC_3sgte
08-15-2017, 08:34 PM
What I used
https://www.primemr2.com/store/p25/Tach_Adapter.html

celica91gts
08-16-2017, 01:29 PM
Thank you!

pintoBC_3sgte
08-16-2017, 05:34 PM
No problem :)