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View Full Version : Thoughts on which route to take -- Gen1 vs Gen4



4thgenceli
04-28-2016, 04:24 PM
Yes I know it's a COMPLETELY different route than what I was planning.

Another member out here has a 215/205 swapped alltrac and has the original engine/transmission from the 165 sitting around wasting away. I'm seriously considering picking it up, fixing up the motor and dropping it in to get her running.

From a cost perspective -- this is the more reasonable route. Which ever way I go I'll still need some parts (radiator, exhaust, brakes, bearings, etc). However if I can just use this motor and fix the problem with it I think it'll be a good interm solution until I have the time available to really build it the way I want (215 motor, 205 transmission, 205 exhaust manifold & turbo, etc).

The motor has excessive crankcase pressure right now and is blowing oil out. I'm guessing the headgasket or something went on it. It's not really costing me anything to acquire the motor/transmission so if the motor really is beyond saving I just scrap it and keep going.

METDeath
04-28-2016, 08:01 PM
So cheap repair, get it running find other things that need fixing? I'd do that.

Shadowlife25
04-28-2016, 09:49 PM
I still have a spare 92 engine and trans set up in SAC Tim. If you are interested let me know. I need the money and i would sell it to you for a decent price.

4thgenceli
04-28-2016, 10:11 PM
So cheap repair, get it running find other things that need fixing? I'd do that.

That's kind of the approach I'm looking at. I the brakes and wheel bearings will need attention. I'll have to get a new radiator and I'll replace the fuel pump with the Walbro to prep for the Gen4 motor.


I still have a spare 92 engine and trans set up in SAC Tim. If you are interested let me know. I need the money and i would sell it to you for a decent price.

Thanks. I'll keep that in mind Mario. I'd hate to just let it keep sitting here doing nothing but collecting dust while I park next to it every day. Hell I'm using 2 starters right now as wheel chocks...

The 165 motor has excessive crank case pressure. Per the guy -- /// I'm not sure exactly what's wrong with it. It has excessive crank case pressure. It ran when I pulled it, but oil was leaking from everywhere
It has a fresh head on it with Cosmetic steel head gasket, and ARP studs. ///

I'm guessing something went awry with the head job and something went awry with it. If I go through with this I'm thinking have the block & head tested (leakdown with my compression gauge and stuff), figure out which cylinder(s) are problematic -- tear it down, redo the timing components, new gaskets, maybe have the head & block checked for true, etc. This should be a fairly simple task -- under $1,000 if I'm thinking correct.

locker
05-05-2016, 01:05 PM
I would say it depends on how much spare time you have. If you have a lot of time but money is what's holding you back keep it running and use the gen 1. However if time is a big issue I would be patient and get it done the way you really want it and only spend the money once.
Let's assume getting the Gen 1 in and running is $1000 for arguments sake. That's your gen 4 motor and half of the tune up parts you need. You will end up spending that $1,000 twice plus now your planning on 2 motor swaps spending the time twice as well.

4thgenceli
05-05-2016, 04:47 PM
I would say it depends on how much spare time you have. If you have a lot of time but money is what's holding you back keep it running and use the gen 1. However if time is a big issue I would be patient and get it done the way you really want it and only spend the money once.
Let's assume getting the Gen 1 in and running is $1000 for arguments sake. That's your gen 4 motor and half of the tune up parts you need. You will end up spending that $1,000 twice plus now your planning on 2 motor swaps spending the time twice as well.

Thanks for the input. Sadly though...$1000 is not enough for the gen4 motor and half of the tune up parts. The motor here is $1000 alone. Anyway I'm still deciding. My biggest issue I'm going to have is wiring. The 165 loom I have is pretty chewed up and I'm missing my fuse box. It is really going to come down to how the gen1 motor is and what it needs. If it's more than what I'm comfortable doing I'll just swap the gen4 and part out the 165's long block.

locker
05-05-2016, 06:59 PM
Call some Canadian JDM shops. If they are willing to ship you might be able to save yourself a lot on the cost of an engine. I paid $750 for mine.... about $500 USD at current exchange rates

Nitro_Alltrac
05-10-2016, 12:19 AM
Call some Canadian JDM shops. If they are willing to ship you might be able to save yourself a lot on the cost of an engine. I paid $750 for mine.... about $500 USD at current exchange rates

Sorry to kind of thread jack Tim.

So the prices that the some Canadian JDM shops are showing are actually in Canadian dollars? I know that sounds stupid but this has never been clear. A lot of them sell on Ebay and those all appear to be in US dollars. If you've got some specific shops I'd appreciate the names. I'm getting ready to buy in the next month and saving some cash would be great.

And Tim, if you're going to have to have the block and head checked at a machine shop, build the harness, do the timing components, etc, you're a long way toward the 215 swap. I was wondering earlier when I read the first post if your 165 harness was good. If that was the case, then I would go with the first gen. But if you're going to have to build a harness I think you should only do that once. It's going to be a big pain in the ass once, much less building a harness twice.

And it sounds like this 1st gen engine is a big unknown. Like you guys told me when I was contemplating rebuilding my 2nd gen engine because I thought it might be cheaper, you're probably going to get into a lot more than you're expecting with the 1st gen engine, especially given the harness situation. i believer I'd stay on the 4th gen track.

CollapsedNut
05-10-2016, 04:15 AM
I'd just get the gen 4. It's just not worth messing with gen 1 anymore. By the time you get it all figured out and in you coulda bought and installed a gen 4 ready to go.

locker
05-10-2016, 11:27 AM
Sorry to kind of thread jack Tim.

So the prices that the some Canadian JDM shops are showing are actually in Canadian dollars? I know that sounds stupid but this has never been clear. A lot of them sell on Ebay and those all appear to be in US dollars. If you've got some specific shops I'd appreciate the names. I'm getting ready to buy in the next month and saving some cash would be great.

And Tim, if you're going to have to have the block and head checked at a machine shop, build the harness, do the timing components, etc, you're a long way toward the 215 swap. I was wondering earlier when I read the first post if your 165 harness was good. If that was the case, then I would go with the first gen. But if you're going to have to build a harness I think you should only do that once. It's going to be a big pain in the ass once, much less building a harness twice.

And it sounds like this 1st gen engine is a big unknown. Like you guys told me when I was contemplating rebuilding my 2nd gen engine because I thought it might be cheaper, you're probably going to get into a lot more than you're expecting with the 1st gen engine, especially given the harness situation. i believer I'd stay on the 4th gen track.
If your buying from a place like eBay it will be in USD. They are listing them there to make some extra cash. It's an easy way to make an extra 30% profit.
When I bought my Gen 4 I was buying in toronto and just googled Jdm engines Toronto and found a tonne of places. I got mine from a shop in Brampton. http://advancegeneralautoparts.com
Whether they will ship or not is a different question

4thgenceli
05-10-2016, 03:59 PM
Thanks guys.

I think I'm going to just stick with the gen4 route -- sell what is salvageable off this motor and scrap the rest.

I'll have to check out the Canadian shops to see if I can get a better deal on the motor. I think shipping would eat most of the savings up though.

Nitro_Alltrac
05-11-2016, 12:40 AM
I did google some of the Canadian shops last night and all the ones that I found were quoting US dollars. I'll keep checking though. Thanks for the heads up.

Tim, I think this will be the best route. I think in the long run you'll be a lot happier and you'll only have to do the job once.

RiskyBusiness
05-12-2016, 01:49 AM
Let me know when you start that harness write up for your gen 4. 😜


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CollapsedNut
05-12-2016, 02:31 AM
I can go into Regina, SK and bring the engine into the US for you. I can ship freight from work, so it may save you some even after you pay me the handling fee of going to get it

ChrisD
05-14-2016, 02:03 PM
JDM Source here in Calgary had some decent deals on Gen 4's. I now have a Gen 4 from them in my garage (http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?54794-Project-pintoBC_5sfte&p=30251700&viewfull=1#post30251700) awaiting a car to go in.

4thgenceli
05-14-2016, 02:36 PM
I can go into Regina, SK and bring the engine into the US for you. I can ship freight from work, so it may save you some even after you pay me the handling fee of going to get it
Coincidence....I have a car waiting for a gen4 motor....

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ChrisD
05-20-2016, 01:21 PM
Coincidence....I have a car waiting for a gen4 motor....

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You'll have to talk that one up with Jon aka pintoBC_5sfte! :D