PDA

View Full Version : Hybrid 3S-GTE motors



4thgenceli
07-21-2015, 06:38 PM
Trying to figure out what would be best for what I'd like to achieve.

I'm trying to decide between the ST205 and ST215 motor. I know the 205 is more widely supported (OEM parts availability, aftermarket upgrades) however I am much more knowledgeable with the 215 motor and really enjoyed the (brief) time I played with one in a FWD application.

Which ever way I go, I want a W:A intercooler. I won't be going A:A FMIC again. Ideally, I'd have a 215 motor with a 205 W:A intercooler.

Any insight would be great to achieve that goal. Can I just throw the 205 intercooler assembly and intake manifold on the 215 and have it work? Would I need to go with a 205 head assembly?

Luni
07-21-2015, 07:51 PM
Why wouldnt you go with an A2A FMIC again? Properly set up A2A will slaughter the stock A2W.

That said, if you want to run the Gen3 shit, all you need to do is use a Gen3 intake manifold, OR you would need to have your 205 IC modified to output to the top right side instead of straight out the top, and of course youd need a custom elbow to connect to it.

The part compatibility between Gen3 and Gen4 is pretty established, and Lithia can get most Gen4 stuff youll need. You were able to fully rebuild one and get stuff for it, so why not stick with the Gen4. Its better in almost every way shape and form.

In my opinion an A2A is better than 205 A2W if youre NOT modifying the outlet. Meaning, if you need to run a Gen3 intake mani, thats a downside IMO. So Id rather run Gen4 intake mani and A2A.

The 205IC just really isnt all that great IMO. Its only good to about 350hp, it has a pretty decent pressure drop across the core, and it complicates your engine bay.

So, the question is, whats your grief with a A2A FMIC?

Murgatroy
07-21-2015, 08:14 PM
I want to say that he kept hitting shit with it last time around.

4thgenceli
07-21-2015, 09:56 PM
Murgy wins! That was the biggest reason. I had to replace the IC pipes too often from road debris and I had to eliminate the AC to get the pipes routed. This time I'd probably reverse the flow on the intercooler if I went with a FMIC and have the hot side on the driver side.

I like the TMIC design and aesthetics of the 215 intercooler but I'm concerned about heat and being here in Phoenix and I'd have to modify the hood to allow it to fit (CS scoop installation comes to mind). I also like the design and aesthetics of the St205 intercooler and know that it'll fit under the St165 hood without needing any hood modifications.

Nitro_Alltrac
07-21-2015, 11:51 PM
Tim what about the ST246 version? It has the center throttle body intake location like the 205. I'm thinking about going that way when I do my engine upgrade. I haven't done any research on it yet but the intake is at least in the right location.

I'm thinking about going that way because I already have the 205 WTA setup and have everything plumbed.

4thgenceli
07-22-2015, 12:11 AM
Thanks Mike.

I'm also trying to keep it within budget too. If I go the 215 route I'll need to get a ST205 transmission with it. If I get the 205 I'll be getting everything all together with the transmission. I have the funds allocated for the purchase I just need to figure out what to purchase now.

Luni
07-23-2015, 06:58 PM
Well Tim, if you go the 205 route, I may know a guy who would trade you intake manifolds and throttle bodies for your 215 stuff.

Nitro_Alltrac
07-24-2015, 12:26 AM
From what I've seen in my searches, if you're going to need 205 tranny, given the pricing of the two engines and the pricing that I've seen for the 205 trans by itself, you'd probably be better off going with the 205 swap. I haven't seen many 205 trannys separately lately and the ones I have seen have been in the $300-400 range at least. There are some decent deals it looks like on the 215 engine but is you get one with the harness and ECU then add the trans in you're going to have about the same investment as the 205 and then you have to add in for the wiring.

Just my 2 cents.

Shadowlife25
07-25-2015, 12:03 AM
I would still go 215 Tim. You already know you like the performance of that setup so why downgrade? Like Luni said, it is a better engine in every respect.
As for the transmission, perhaps this is just my own ignorance but is there that much difference from the 185 and 205 transmissions? 185 trans you can find all day.
For the WTA thing, while a WTA is cool, like Rob said, a good ATA setup will blow doors on it. You should be able to keep your AC system and not knock stuff into it if you route it properly. Lots of others have, no reason you can't.
This way you stay in your budget too.
Just my thoughts.

METDeath
07-25-2015, 12:36 AM
I would still go 215 Tim. You already know you like the performance of that setup so why downgrade? Like Luni said, it is a better engine in every respect.
As for the transmission, perhaps this is just my own ignorance but is there that much difference from the 185 and 205 transmissions? 185 trans you can find all day.
For the WTA thing, while a WTA is cool, like Rob said, a good ATA setup will blow doors on it. You should be able to keep your AC system and not knock stuff into it if you route it properly. Lots of others have, no reason you can't.
This way you stay in your budget too.
Just my thoughts.

Yeah, but you are forgetting that this is the guy who sought troubleshooting advice... and followed some of it. When his problem was he was out of gasoline.

Nitro_Alltrac
07-25-2015, 01:51 AM
Mario from what I understand the main difference between the 185 & 205 trans is that the 205 has the upgraded syncros and such. Otherwise the same. It's an upgraded model from everything I've read

4thgenceli
07-25-2015, 03:24 AM
Mario from what I understand the main difference between the 185 & 205 trans is that the 205 has the upgraded syncros and such. Otherwise the same. It's an upgraded model from everything I've read

Correct. It's along the same line of the pre 1993 E153 SW20 transmissions. the 93+ models had the dual syncros and I think slightly different ratios.

Marshall.... piss off :) That was one time. My fuel gauge still said I had plenty of fuel.

Luni
07-25-2015, 06:48 AM
Pretty sure the syncros arent really any different, the gear ratios are different on some of the gears. I think the 205 had taller gears (maybe its shorter, but the 185 is already shorter than an MR2, so the 205 would be WAY shorter).

Id run whatever you can get your hands on. In some respects the 165 tranny is better. It has different ratios than the others as well.

ChrisD
07-25-2015, 03:05 PM
Murgy wins! That was the biggest reason. I had to replace the IC pipes too often from road debris

What in the hell were you driving through?? haha - pipes should last pretty well forever.

I like an FMIC but can understand the reasons for not. It is quite complicated on the 165 to fit one in there. To be honest, both engines are great. Go with what is available and affordable. Then figure out the intercooling from there. If you need a 205 intake manifold in the end to make it work, I'm sure you can source one fairly easily. I think for me, I'd probably go 205 since the trans would be there already, intercooler is there for what you'd like, and then just bolt it in and go.

Nitro_Alltrac
07-26-2015, 12:48 AM
Tim, here's a 215 with the manual AWD transmission.

They're out there but have been few and far between.

$1900.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Celica-Caldina-3SGTE-Engine-3SGTE-ST215-Engine-3SGTE-4th-Gen-MR2-3SGTE-3SGT-/311409610334?&_trksid=p2056016.l4276

Luni
08-12-2015, 05:34 AM
215 > 205.

Get OBD2 wired in, get Android headunit, run Torque, fuck gagues.

Good Day sir.

Murgatroy
08-12-2015, 09:02 PM
Marshall.... piss off :) That was one time. My fuel gauge still said I had plenty of fuel.

Don't get upset Tim, this is coming from the guy that put power steering fluid in his transmission...

METDeath
08-13-2015, 12:39 AM
Don't get upset Tim, this is coming from the guy that put power steering fluid in his transmission...

Hey, at least I only put ONE quart in!

MCcelica
08-17-2015, 07:37 AM
Don't get upset Tim, this is coming from the guy that put power steering fluid in his transmission...

Coming from the guy who put a side exit exhaust on an ST...

Lol

4thgenceli
11-15-2015, 04:10 PM
Bored and diecided to re-read this.

Y'all guys are a bunch of funny dicks. I hate the lot of you.






but still <3 each and every one of you. I'm going to do the 215 motor with the FMIC again. Now that i know what I had to deal with I'm better prepared to do it again. The whole driving force behind this was that I thought I has a St205 W2A unit. Turns out I don't.

Shadowlife25
11-17-2015, 11:23 PM
Tim, it is a 185RC WTA unit.

Smaay
11-19-2015, 09:48 PM
wish I saw this thread sooner. my buddy just put a 215 engine in a ST165. you have to do something crazy for the tach to work since there is no more igniter. he is using a 205 trans. he is using the ST215 TMIC and had to cut a hole in his hood. he used an STI scoop.

speaking of 205 trans, it also does not have the FWD selector like the 185 does.

UtahSleeper
11-19-2015, 09:51 PM
wish I saw this thread sooner. my buddy just put a 215 engine in a ST165. you have to do something crazy for the tach to work since there is no more igniter. he is using a 205 trans. he is using the ST215 TMIC and had to cut a hole in his hood. he used an STI scoop.

speaking of 205 trans, it also does not have the FWD selector like the 185 does.

For the tach it is just a MSD adapter. Nothing special.