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View Full Version : Harmony got hit.



Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 02:40 AM
The only time I have dealt with insurance is when the wife's Buick was totaled a few years ago. That was pretty simple for the most part. Their adjuster came and looked at the car, declared it totaled and cut me a check for it minus buy-back because I kept it.

This is different. I was sitting at a red light, some kid 'had a brake failure' and slammed into the back of Harmony. She will need a new rear fascia, the rear pan was ripped a good six inches. I honestly don't know how to proceed. I called the police, had them file a report, the kid had insurance, so I can pick up the report on Monday. But as I have never had to have a car repaired at a shop on someone else's dime, I don't know how to proceed.

The other thing I am concerned about is diminished value. Now that Carfax will have record of the accident, she is worth several grand less, right? How do I go about claiming that against the other insurance?

Honestly, if it hadn't knocked the reflector out and ripped the fascia pretty badly, and she wasn't a new car, I would have just rolled with it. But it did, and she is new, so I am being a dick about the whole thing.

Advice and opinions?

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/4/6/harmony_2-27-15.jpg

Facime
02-28-2015, 05:28 AM
Well you can arugue "diminished value" with their insurance company if you want, but its unlikely you'll make any headway with that.

Basically you just need to contact your insurance company and let them deal with dealing with HIS insurance company. You will have opportunities along to way to challenge them if you don't like their decisions.

Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 05:46 AM
Well you can arugue "diminished value" with their insurance company if you want, but its unlikely you'll make any headway with that.

Basically you just need to contact your insurance company and let them deal with dealing with HIS insurance company. You will have opportunities along to way to challenge them if you don't like their decisions.

So I am just supposed to roll with the fact that my car booked at $17k PP yesterday morning and after I get it fixed if I wanted to sell it, it books for $12k PP because it has a blemish on the history? I mean, I can't roll with that. This is the first new car I have ever bought, which makes it the biggest ticket item I have ever owned as a non-homeowner. Now I know that it wasn't an investment, but the idea that because some tool hit me and it is suddenly worth $5k less through no fault of my own, I can't really roll with that.

Facime
02-28-2015, 07:07 AM
Like I said, you can argue that with his insurance company. Or, you can talk to the kid that hit you and try to go outside the insurance companies, but I think since you reported the accident it may be a forgone conclusion that it is on the carfax report now.

Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 07:17 AM
I did some reading, and the basic procedure is that I have to have an appraisal done after the repairs are made. Kentucky does recognize Inherent Diminished Value. However, it is an uphill fight. After I pay for the appraisal, it is a back and forth where the opposing insurance will often fight tooth and nail claiming that the values are BS. I send them a letter of intent, with the appraisal through certified mail and we fight it out.

Part of me doesn't want to be the dick that fights it out with an insurance company, as insurance is so high as it is. Then the other part of me remembers that Harmony was a one owner car with all maintenance records and no damage less than twelve hours ago. And that is when I start getting angry.

Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 07:19 AM
In the simplest terms, here is what pisses me off.

Yesterday she was worth more than I owed, today I owe more than she is worth.

Shadowlife25
02-28-2015, 07:54 AM
Go through the steps to get her fixed and fight to have her value secured.
Or alternatively, see if it is at all possible to just get a new same replacement car with no miles.
Who knows, maybe they'll go for it. These are just ideas mind you.
I have never owned anything new in my life so I have no clue how to proceed.

MCcelica
02-28-2015, 08:01 AM
Most insurance companies will be a dick to you in hopes that you'll throw in the towel and take what they give you. I wouldn't look at it as being a dick to the kid, but more to a giant evil insurance company.

I, personally, would have zero qualms for milking every cent out of them as possible.

Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 08:15 AM
Go through the steps to get her fixed and fight to have her value secured.
Or alternatively, see if it is at all possible to just get a new same replacement car with no miles.
Who knows, maybe they'll go for it. These are just ideas mind you.
I have never owned anything new in my life so I have no clue how to proceed.

Getting her fixed is simple, and not much of an issue. I haven't looked at her in the daylight, but in all seriousness, right now, I am convinced that all the damage is what you see in the picture. A missing reflector and a crack that runs from where the reflector was to the exhaust opening. It is a $500(?) rear bumper cover from Ford and paint. <$2000 total and done.

Realistically I can buy an aftermarket Roush or SVT GT500 rear valance that will replace (cut and install) the damaged portion and I will be out $200 and the labor to cut and install it myself.

The point is that at the end of the day I am getting bent out of shape over a little crack that no one but me will notice when it could have been lots lots worse.

But like you mention Mario, this is my first new car, I have never owned a new car before, or anything that was even ten years old or less before Harmony. So that is part of where my anger comes from.

Facime
02-28-2015, 08:16 AM
I, personally, would have zero qualms for milking every cent out of them as possible.

A-fucking-GREED!

david in germany
02-28-2015, 03:25 PM
First, only take it to the repair place that YOU choose, do not let the insurance companies dictate that for you.
Second, if you plan on keeping her for the long run, get her repairs and drive on.
If you plan on selling her, fight for the depreciation reimbursement.
Find out if your insurance company will take the fight on for you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 09:00 PM
First, only take it to the repair place that YOU choose, do not let the insurance companies dictate that for you.
Second, if you plan on keeping her for the long run, get her repairs and drive on.
If you plan on selling her, fight for the depreciation reimbursement.
Find out if your insurance company will take the fight on for you.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

I called my insurance company, they are willing to do everything, but I have to pay my deductible in order for them to do that. I hate the idea of paying for anything out of my pocket when I didn't do anything wrong, but it really does seem to be the easiest way.

I have no plans to get rid of her, but it was nice to know that the option was available if I wanted to trade her in and upgrade now that she was worth more than I owed.

Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 09:16 PM
I went and looked at it in the daylight and other than some scratches I didn't see, it bent my exhaust a good bit.

What are the odds of when I get it fixed of going with aftermarket performance parts instead of OEM? I know that a Roush rear valance and their axleback to match it would cost less than a FoMoCo rear fascia, muffler assembly and paint...

Would that be something to discuss with the shop?

david in germany
02-28-2015, 09:29 PM
I called my insurance company, they are willing to do everything, but I have to pay my deductible in order for them to do that. I hate the idea of paying for anything out of my pocket when I didn't do anything wrong, but it really does seem to be the easiest way.

I have no plans to get rid of her, but it was nice to know that the option was available if I wanted to trade her in and upgrade now that she was worth more than I owed.

The accident was not your fault, do not pay anything! Talk to another rep from the insurance company before you make any decisions the first rep may not know the proper procedures.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

Facime
02-28-2015, 09:43 PM
The insurance will just a check to the repair shop. So whatever dollar amount they agree on, you could certainly chose to use other than OEM parts, however, since you want to ensure that you ALSO get compensated for diminished value Im not sure how that works. Probably something to keep between you and the shop and not involve the insurance in that conversation.

Murgatroy
02-28-2015, 10:49 PM
The accident was not your fault, do not pay anything! Talk to another rep from the insurance company before you make any decisions the first rep may not know the proper procedures.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD


The insurance will just a check to the repair shop. So whatever dollar amount they agree on, you could certainly chose to use other than OEM parts, however, since you want to ensure that you ALSO get compensated for diminished value Im not sure how that works. Probably something to keep between you and the shop and not involve the insurance in that conversation.



Kentucky has Diminished Value laws, however the data entry analyst I talked to last night didn't have a clue of what, if anything was going on. She kept saying 'someone will contact you/you will have to ask a Kentucky State Specialist..' so I just gave up and decided I would call Monday when I have the police report in hand.

You are absolutely right though, I refuse to pay out of pocket for anything, even if I would be reimbursed. I didn't do anything wrong, and that is what upsets me, now I have to do all the legwork, go to the body shop, get estimates, pay for my appraisal, file the forms with the insurance, wait for my car to be repaired, etc... while the kid that was driving his GFs car does nothing other than get yelled at by her for raising her rates.

In Kentucky, to get Inherent Diminished Value I must provide an appraisal of value after repairs and proof of value before the accident. Then it is a fight back and forth with a lot of stonewalling to get my money.

The understanding I have is that the repairs must be done proper and correct or that could affect the Diminished Value at my fault for not demanding proper repairs.

It is also my understand that since I still have a lien on the car, any check that is cut for repairs (or forgoing repairs in lieu of repairs) goes to the bank or the repair shop, not to me.

Again this is all new to me, and I suppose I will be learning as I go.

4thgenceli
02-28-2015, 11:30 PM
I'm not going to bore you with a long post. Cliff notes it is.

1. Don't use your insurance. You would only use your insurance if they were not insured or didn't have enough insurance (ie. Uninsured / Underinsured coverage). Sure you can go through your company, turn around and pay your 250/500/whatever deductible you have and then try to get the money back from their insurance but why hassle? Just let them do it.

2. If you're gonna keep it for a while don't fret about the value. Two days after we bought our 626 back in 2003 I T-boned someone doing 45. Fucked up the car real good. $4,500 in damage that the other insurance paid for repairs. Here, the only way I could really get 'diminished value' is if I would prove that I had it listed for sale for X but now can only sell it for Y due to the accident. The damage looks mostly cosmetic anyway.

3. Here in AZ I could either get a check from the insurance company or have them pay the repair facility. The only time they would pay the lienholder would be if it was totaled. They would pay the lien first, then I would get any remnants.

CollapsedNut
03-02-2015, 03:19 AM
I donno if this is how it works in auto, but in AG I've delt with many insurance people. How it works for us is:
-Customers unit is brought in for inspection
-We inspect and get a parts list and labor estimate
-Insurance man comes out, looks it over, looks at our quote
-Insurance guy cuts us a check and we fix it

Granted our insurance damage is usually from fire, rocks(getting sucked into a combine harvester), or customer damage while operating like running into fence post ect.

jdm_celica_gts
03-02-2015, 01:05 PM
My sti got hit before it was a month old. Some drunk ass ran into the back and his hitch punched a hole in my rear bumper, called police, filed a report then took it to a body shop of "my" choice and they gave me a quote on how much it was to fix. Since it was their fault I made their insurance pay for repairs+ my deductible. I don't know if all insurance companies can do it but statefarm has been good to me the past 8 or so years I have been with them.

Good luck getting the car fixed!

alltracman78
03-02-2015, 04:37 PM
How did you get to a 5 grand drop in value? An arbitrary number you picked?
I wouldn't think damage like that would drop the value much if any. Both because you're only replacing a plastic piece and part of the exhaust and because the dollar value isn't that high. No bondo, no metal body damage. Keep pictures and all records for when you sell it if there's any question.

Keep in mind any non OE parts probably drop the appraised value of the car if you're going to argue diminished value.

Insurance laws are different in every state, keep that in mind too.

This will be easier once fault is determined. I would assume that shouldn't take long in your case.
Find a body shop you like. The shop usually contacts/goes through the insurance.
Make sure they put the parts you want on the car.

Murgatroy
03-02-2015, 09:42 PM
I am just making up numbers. Since I still can't get the police report with the kid's information that hit me.

In retrospect I should have asked the officer to give me that information the night of, since the kid wouldn't.

Nitro_Alltrac
03-02-2015, 11:17 PM
Murg, if Kentucky is anything like WV, the check will most likely be in yours and bank's name since there is a lien. At least that's how it was when I worked in the body shop at the Chevy dealer.

Also check Kentucky law about what kind of parts the insurance company has to use. In WV, for the current model year and the two previous model years, they have to use OEM. After that, they can use what ever they like. In TX, when my son wrecked his less than year old car, the insurance could use whatever they wanted and of course wrote aftermarket. The shop we used though was able to work it out and put OEM back on it. This really depends on state law and if they don't have to use OEM under the law they want. You and yell, cuss and raise hell, but they only do what they are required to under the law or force you to hire a lawyer. This varies from state to state though, so you should check the KY law and see what it says.

Murgatroy
03-02-2015, 11:48 PM
Murg, if Kentucky is anything like WV, the check will most likely be in yours and bank's name since there is a lien. At least that's how it was when I worked in the body shop at the Chevy dealer.



Well, that is going to make buying Hookers and Blow for the Dragon difficult if it goes down that way.

Nitro_Alltrac
03-03-2015, 09:20 PM
Check with the Kentucky insurance commission or attorney general's office and find out what the law is there. It will help to know up front AND also to help make sure the damn insurance company doesn't try to jack you around.

We had problems at the body shop I worked at with Nationwide deliberately trying to use aftermarket or "reconditioned" parts, especially bumper covers, on cars that were definitely covered under law for new parts. I had one girl that actually had to sue them over here bumper cover on a year old car. She won, got the new part and $5K because they were dickheads. Of course the next week they did the same with another customer. I think their logic was that more people than not don't pursue it and they save money. Definitely find out what you rights in Kentucky because this varies greatly from state to state and what we tell you here most likely won't be how Kentucky handles it.

Good Luck and my the Force be with you on this one!

Murgatroy
03-09-2015, 01:22 PM
Talk about frustrating, the Sheriff's Department can't find my police report...

Shadowlife25
03-09-2015, 09:39 PM
Weak. You should always ask for a copy or a file number. They get tricky about stuff sometimes.

Murgatroy
03-09-2015, 09:57 PM
I got a file number.

But I live in rural Kentucky, and the number I got refers to the computer file, and 'we don't use that number, so it means nothing to us.' What? The 90 year old man no shit walks over to a filing cabinet and pulls a manilla folder out, which has a honest to god hand written index on a sheet of legal paper and goes through the names looking for my information...

And how can I get a copy of something they can't find. It no shit has taken them over a week just to find the police report, so how can I get a copy of it, if they can't find it?






They called me a couple of hours later, after they called the deputy, and then faxed me the report. Now I am getting the run around from the insurance agency. I have called ten different offices, each referring me to another. "What is the name of our company?" No fucking way, you answered the goddamn phone and said Kentucky Farm Bureau, but after I tell you I need to file a claim, you aren't Kentucky Farm Bureau? Oh, I see, I called the wrong office, let me try this again...

MCcelica
03-10-2015, 12:23 AM
I may know a guy who can take care of this... but we'll wait till after you get your money...

Shadowlife25
03-10-2015, 09:41 AM
Better call Saul.

Murgatroy
03-10-2015, 06:53 PM
Fuck yeah! Guess who gave bogus insurance information to the cop.

I knew that was what was happening when he didn't want to give me his information.

METDeath
03-10-2015, 07:43 PM
Fuck yeah! Guess who gave bogus insurance information to the cop.

I knew that was what was happening when he didn't want to give me his information.

The third party witness?

Murgatroy
03-10-2015, 07:50 PM
The cat that hit me didn't want to give me his information, that is why the cops got involved.

I called yesterday to place the claim and got the run around.

I get the call today from the Adjuster and he is all "Well, the driver wasn't listed on the insurance, but that might not matter, because it doesn't look like this is a currently valid policy..." I need to see the police report, call me tomorrow...

MCcelica
03-10-2015, 10:20 PM
The cat that hit me didn't want to give me his information, that is why the cops got involved.

All I need is a first and last name. I can make the rest happen with a few phone calls...

Murgatroy
03-17-2015, 01:50 PM
So the insurance and I are dancing, but it is a decent dance. I think it will be made right in the end.

I got my estimate today, just shy of $1700 in damage. I talked to the bodyshop, I am going to drop my Diminished Value Claim, and most likely go with the Roush Rear valence and matching axle back. As I am not going back 100% factory, I have no basis for diminished value. If there is enough left over I might get an intake and tune to go with my new exhaust. Maybe not.

We will see. The bodyshop is sending the estimate to the adjuster today, I will call him later and see what is up. The body shop knows the adjuster and due to the weather we have had lately, he is pretty sure they will just cut me the check as to keep from fighting with me.





I will be glad when this is all over.

Nitro_Alltrac
03-18-2015, 02:35 AM
Glad to hear progress is being made Murg.