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kansasboy
10-26-2014, 03:39 AM
ok so i know their is a post in here about this but i forgot how to use this page so bare with me plz!!!

i have a 92 celica st, and im stuck choosing to turn it to a "mut" car by that i wanna put a H22 Honda motor in it or get a 4age. so my question is, what all is interchangeable between the 4afe and the 4age?? i know the cvs are and should be a straight drop.. can i use the harness from the 4afe or would it be better to use the 4age harness?? is their anything i really need to look for and keep a eye out for?

thanks for the help in advanced, and sorry for the noobish ways

Shadowlife25
10-26-2014, 05:36 AM
Either swap will take a lot of time money and effort. Really up to you. As in, how good are your fabrication skills? Do you have access to the tools that you will need to use? Have you researched other cars that have done this kind of swap before?

Seems like a lot of questions, but trust me, answering them will help you to decide which way you want to go with it.

That being said, since it is still Toyota and a 4 series engine, the 4AGE swap would most likely be the simpler of the two with reasonable gains to be had from bolt-ons.
On the other hand, if you want more power out of the box (so to speak) the H22 is a solid platform to build on as well.

The Celica ST is a relatively light car and has a decently stiff chassis and with some suspension tuning can be an absolute monster in the corners.

As to interchangeability between the two A series engines, I can not comment as I have not had an ST in well over a decade. :)
But there are others here that could help you in that regard, so be patient and try to think about the things I asked you as far as your goals and capability.

Best of luck!

kansasboy
10-26-2014, 02:22 PM
thanks shadow....

my fabrication skills are not the best but my cousin is a careered welder so i got that part.. ive been thinking about these swaps the last 6mts. ive looked at the mounts in the car to see what work will need to be done. they all look like they would line up besides the right one for the tranny that will need to be moved. due to hondas and toyota trannys are on the opposite sides.

the ST is probably the worst sub frame to work on, but we been threw some sh*t and the body is in really good shape! zero rust!! i want to have something different from everyone else. the toyota scene is hella dead in kansas. it is over whelmed with Honda Subaru and integras.

another question i have is, can the ST use some of the GT parts? like exhaust and suspension? ive found more parts for the GT then i can for the ST

thanks for the help!!

Murgatroy
10-26-2014, 04:25 PM
The ST and the GT are the exact same car beyond motor mounts and transmission mounts and available engine. Post `92. `90-91 you have different hubs/brakes as they are four lug. As you have a `92 we have no need to get into that.

That means anything that is not related to the motor (mounts, transmission, axles, radiator, etc...) is a direct bolt on. Except obviously the hatch, if you are looking at a hatch GT/GT-S. All the body panels, suspension and interior (again coupe into coupe) will be a direct swap. Coilovers, or even just springs and struts, they are all compatible with the ST.

If you want to swap a 4AGE it is pretty much bolt in. However, as with any engine swap where you change the original motor, you will have to change the wiring to match the new 4AGE ECU. You will want the entire harness from the 4AGE, you will run entire said harness to the 4AGE ECU. After that you will chase any missing wires from the ECU to their corresponding place in the existing body harness, or create them if they didn't exist in the 4AFE harness. You have several 4AGE engines to choose from, the obvious choices are the more modern Silver Top and Black Top, however you also have the older Red Top and Blue Top engines, as well as the less common 4AGZE with a supercharger. I regret to say that there is not a massive amount of information here regarding those swaps, as most Celica folks choose to go big or go home and they swap in the larger turbocharged 3SGTE out of the Alltrac and MR2. The information does exists, just not here. I got quite a bit of stuff from Club4AGE when I was looking, they are the premier site for Corolla swaps, and although they prefer the AE86 chassis last time I looked, they will be able to provide you with the wiring diagrams of any flavor of 4AGE. Using those and the information from here, you should be able to get your wiring sorted.

I have no positive opinion of the Honda engine. The swap is foolish, will be difficult to complete and the Honda guys would not appreciate it. Most likely the car would never be completed. You will have to change orientation of the engine, find new hubs, fabricate all four engine mounts, fabricate the engine harness and all of this for something that will be very difficult to tune, or if you do complete it, and then get burnt out, sell. My final thought is don't do it.

The last option you aren't mentioning is swapping another larger Toyota engine in. Such as the 3SGTE (~250BHP) or one of the V6 Engines. These will require more work than the 4AGE, but significantly less work than the Honda engine, and they will create more power as well. Oh, and we have information regarding them, so you wouldn't be forging your path in the dark with a dull machete.

As for the Honda kids... Well, good for them. I would prefer to march to the beat of my own drum than to follow the rest of the pack. But to each their own. I may daily drive a Mustang with aftermarket parts falling off of a tree, but anyone that knows me knows my heart and soul is in Chaos.

Regarding the ST chassis, you won't find anyone that knows it better than I do. When I tell you that anything fits, or doesn't, it is because I am the authority, and Chaos is easily the most modified Celica ST in the nation. Yes, I am sick. There is nothing on her that left the factory on her. Well, maybe the cluster. She is a conglomeration of `90-93 ST/GT/GT-S and GT-4.

kansasboy
10-27-2014, 02:07 AM
thanks alot MURGATROY!!! that info HELPED ALOT!!!!!!!! i have spent count less hours on looking for just ST parts, but always found the GT parts instead! expectantly exhaust, that was the hardest to find and they wanted like 300 for the headers and MAYBE the down pipe..

i have considered doing the 3sgte swap count less times, but i have new alternator and cvs so i wanna get my money out of those first, plus this will be my first YOTA swap. like i said the YOTA scene here is dead. so ill be the first one here with a YOTA that has upgrades... even at IFO ( import face off) their is hardly any of them you might see a supra here and their but nothing else..

what are good brands to use such as exhaust, suspension goes?? since you have mastered the ST i kinda want your opinion i find it use full and you have gave me good info so far, so dont let me down lol..

Murgatroy
10-27-2014, 02:17 AM
Suspension is touchy, what do you want? I have Megan Coilovers because they were cheaper than a stock style setup. To do your suspension properly you will drop a grand easily.

Exhaust is going to be full custom to be worthwhile, and it won't be on an ST. You can get any muffler you like and be done with it. The 4AFE doesn't respond to upgrades, so it won't be any faster, just louder. There is no point in replacing the piping, so any competent shop can weld in whatever muffler you want.

You can find eBay headers if you want, once again, it is all for looks. You won't make more power, you will just sound loud and mean. I tell you with an honest heart that the 4AFE won't make power short of a turbo. However it is the lightest of the family and it will hold it's speed better than any other Celica due to it's light weight and stiff chassis. Being in Kansas, you won't find any curvy roads, so that is a moot point.

The header, not headers, there is one head, thus one header, will not work from any engine other than the 4AFE, and exhaust diameter from the GT/GT-S will be larger, this is an engine related piece. If you install a larger exhaust you will lose backpressure and power.

kansasboy
10-27-2014, 02:28 AM
that im not sure of. i just found some MEGAN RACING EZ STREET SERIES COILOVERS for 700 on ebay. they say they are for the GT/GTS..

i think im going to shoot for the 4age and see how i like that for now maybe turbo it in the near future? my 4afe has bad seals and dont feel like messing with something that wont gain any power. it still runs and drives. but every once in awhile it gets oil in the cylinders BAD. i have had that car for 8 years and took piss poor care of her till now, but she always fires right up even after sitting for a years time..

kansasboy
10-27-2014, 02:41 AM
where the tag sits right under the trunk lid.. what is that part called? i cant seem to find one or of good shape

Murgatroy
10-27-2014, 03:59 AM
I did the Megans. I don't know if they have different flavors now, but back then they had one. I did wheel bearings, ball joints, inner and outer tie rod ends. You will want to do all of that at the same time, it will make a night and day difference. It doesn't matter if the parts are ST/GT/GT-S.

Simple example. Chaos is an ST, she currently has GT-S four wheel disc brakes on all four corners, with Megan coilovers, with GT-S hubs, ball joints, outer tie rod ends, etc...

Nitro_Alltrac
10-27-2014, 04:21 PM
Frankenstein...

Luni
10-27-2014, 06:12 PM
Shes like a soul absorbing vampire... She has become an entity unto herself at this point.

Frankensten was an automation. Chaos is a living entity. Shes also a whore. And her owner is a cunt.

Murgatroy
10-27-2014, 06:56 PM
I tried counting up all the Celicas she has consumed the other night, I quit around seventeen, mainly because I couldn't remember if those parts are still on her or not. I do know that she has parts from ST/GT/GT-S/ST185 on her currently.

Shadowlife25
10-27-2014, 11:30 PM
Yeah, that's why I loved seeing your new user title. I found it fitting.

kansasboy
10-31-2014, 02:46 AM
thanks for helping with the part search, it helps alot to know the ST is a slut and uses other celica parts