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T-spoon
08-04-2014, 02:22 AM
Don't mind the title/caption, wife typoed. It's a 2zzge of course

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oW4Zvfewh_c&feature=youtu.be

This just started yesterday. Thing is.. it doesn't do this on cold start, only after driving it around and getting it hot. When it starts making this sound the idle starts to bounce higher than normal and I can hear the IACV activating and turning off rapidly which I assume is causing the idle bounce. I swapped control heads on my IACV and cleaned it but it didn't help. When I put the engine in I put in brand new lift bolts, I just took them out and they're pretty scarred up, worse than the ones I pulled out. I put the old ones back in and started it up and it sounded normal, but went for a short drive and could tell right away it's down on power and not as responsive as it should be. It does go into lift but it doesn't feel quite right and revs slower.

T-spoon
08-04-2014, 04:37 AM
I think it might be the vvt cam gear failing. I scoped around on the valve cover and that's where the noise seems to be coming from

MCcelica
08-04-2014, 06:51 AM
That's hard to say without digging into it. Seems a bit odd that you'd be going through lift bolts, though.

donteatbugs
08-04-2014, 02:52 PM
Yeah, I would also check the cam lobes and vvti solenoid for good actuation. I had one on a camry only failing when hot randomly. Also the cam gear can wear, we had to replace luni's once.

T-spoon
08-04-2014, 03:20 PM
I didn't want to drive it this way but I ran out of daytime yesterday and had to get to work. It only clatters at idle and below like 2k RPM. There's a very defined crossover where the sound just disappears completely and the car sounds pretty normal. When I get home I'm going to pull the gear from the 1zz I have laying around and if it looks good swap them out and see. As far as I can tell they're the same on both engines.

T-spoon
08-04-2014, 06:07 PM
Yeah, I would also check the cam lobes and vvti solenoid for good actuation. I had one on a camry only failing when hot randomly. Also the cam gear can wear, we had to replace luni's once.

BTW, was it the OCV that was failing on the Camry, or the VVT cam gear itself? Was it throwing a CEL? I cleaned the OCV screen and tested unplugging it, which did of course throw a CEL but made no difference in the noise or idle.

donteatbugs
08-05-2014, 12:46 PM
it was the solenoid. It never threw the solenoid code. It threw a code for misfires on that bank of the engine. It was a 1mzfe. it would drive perfect until that point though. I think you might be heading inthe right direction changing the gear though. There isnt an easy way to check oil pressure but that is always an option too.

T-spoon
08-05-2014, 04:35 PM
So I pulled it apart last night. The timing was WAY off (like 5 teeth??). I really have no idea how.. so I reset the timing and it drove great... for a while. Then it stopped on it's own. I pulled the valve cover off and there is a ton of slack between the cam gears (like, more than there would be without the fully extended tensioner that's in there right now). I have to get the timing cover off tonight and find out what happened exactly.. but I'm fearing the chain broke.. and don't like to think about what that has done to the valvetrain.

donteatbugs
08-05-2014, 06:26 PM
Very bad things happen when that chain breaks or jumps. Sadly it scraps the engine a lot of times.

T-spoon
08-05-2014, 06:39 PM
Yeah, I feel sick about it, but stuck at work right now so all I can think of is the worst case scenerio. Looks like my wife and I will have to beg for a ride to the Ogopogo.

Luni
08-05-2014, 11:01 PM
My engine sounded like that kinda at startup. Sounded very rod knocky. And it went away after it ran a second. That was going on for years before Bugs replaced my intake came with the other one from my old engine.

I kept the cam, I can send it to you and you can rebuild the VVTI mechanism in it and then spec, replace/shim or whatever the head for it. That COULD take care of it, if it IS the vvti mechanism.

T-spoon
08-06-2014, 06:35 AM
Welp. Basically catastrophic failure. The timing chain sprocket broke in half, the timing chain broke, the keyway twisted in the crank and a piece of the oil pump broke off. I don't know which thing happened first. I don't know if the crank is FUBAR or if the valves are sad pandas. It /seems/ like the valves are ok as the cams and pistons move freely. I think happening at idle may have saved'm (as opposed to being at 8k in lift)

MrWOT
08-06-2014, 11:22 AM
Welp. Basically catastrophic failure. The timing chain sprocket broke in half, the timing chain broke, the keyway twisted in the crank and a piece of the oil pump broke off. I don't know which thing happened first. I don't know if the crank is FUBAR or if the valves are sad pandas. It /seems/ like the valves are ok as the cams and pistons move freely. I think happening at idle may have saved'm (as opposed to being at 8000k in lift)

Now THAT is a fairly impressive failure. :p

donteatbugs
08-06-2014, 02:07 PM
BTW, I have a used crank, rods, pistons, block. Its all disassembled right now but its all in good shape if you want the cheaper route than a used 2zz.

T-spoon
08-06-2014, 03:45 PM
BTW, I have a used crank, rods, pistons, block. Its all disassembled right now but its all in good shape if you want the cheaper route than a used 2zz.

I may take you up on that if the crank is trashed.

MCcelica
08-06-2014, 05:19 PM
Holy hell...

Luni
08-06-2014, 07:28 PM
Ive got a new oil pump.

T-spoon
08-06-2014, 10:04 PM
*cartman voice* Saweeet guys! /*cartman voice* When I get back from the 'pogo I'll hit folks up for what parts they have. If the crank isn't poop I'll through it back together and do a leakdown test to see how the valve stuffs are.

Nitro_Alltrac
08-06-2014, 10:17 PM
Damn. Was there any indication that things went south that fast/bad?

T-spoon
08-06-2014, 10:35 PM
^ Other than the noise, but that wasn't much help because the noise sounded like a million other sound clips online from 1zz and 2zz engines making various knocking and clattering sounds from the OCV/VVT system. In fact, all the research actually led me astray. Maybe the timing chain stretched and then broke, maybe the sprocket just had a casting flaw and broke, I really don't know. I had the timing cover off about a month ago to reseal it and everything looked fine, and it drove and sounded fine since then until Saturday. The worst that ever happened to the motor was bouncing on the rev limiter once or twice autocrossing, never any dreaded mis-shifts or anything like that.

T-spoon
08-24-2014, 04:29 AM
Holy craps, the crank pulley cracked too! Luckily I can keep scavenging from the old 1zz. No one has come forward to buy the car as it sits, so I put a new sprocket, chain and vvt intake cam gear on today. Maybe tomorrow I'll button it up and see if/how she runs. The widening of the keyway slot was easy enough to fill in and everything seems snug and secure so I'm crossing my fingers that it'll run fine when I finish.

MCcelica
08-24-2014, 05:22 PM
That is some crazy shit man.

T-spoon
08-26-2014, 02:40 AM
Welp, it runs, but it doesn't run exactly right, it coughs when I first crank it (the sound it makes when you do a compression test). I'm pretty sure I hear valve ticking, and I'm getting misfire codes on cylinders 1 and 3. Without doing a leakdown test, this strongly suggests to me that there are some slightly bent valves on one or both of those cylinders. It kind of makes sense since the firing order is starts 1,3,4,2. Could be worse, that's not a totally trashed engine.

donteatbugs
08-26-2014, 09:55 PM
ugh, I had to replace valves in my head. Not a fun job.

KoreanJoey
08-27-2014, 08:10 AM
Ah it's not fun but it's not super difficult. Very time consuming though for sure.

Funkycheeze
08-27-2014, 08:28 PM
Leakdown test time!

T-spoon
08-27-2014, 10:25 PM
Yeah.. but I don't have a tester, and Lilly would prefer I not spend any more money on this car (although it wouldn't be just for this car, I'd like to have the tool anyway).

ChrisD
08-28-2014, 02:35 AM
Can you rent it from a parts store? Of course you'd need an air compressor.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

T-spoon
08-28-2014, 03:35 PM
Can you rent it from a parts store? Of course you'd need an air compressor.

Sent from my HTC One_M8 using Tapatalk

I've got a little 3gal compressor, which should be enough I think. I thought about the renting possibility, I should check that out.

Funkycheeze
08-28-2014, 08:14 PM
Even a compression test would tell you if the valves are sealing properly, which is the information you are after. Parts stores definitely rent those.

T-spoon
08-29-2014, 04:35 AM
I have a compression tester and will do it, just figured a leakdown would be more definitive

Funkycheeze
08-29-2014, 05:05 PM
If you have bent valves, it will for sure show up as a big difference between compression in the affected and non affected cylinders.

T-spoon
08-30-2014, 01:57 AM
Welp, there you have it:

200/200/50/200

KoreanJoey
08-30-2014, 02:34 AM
Well shit, that's just one cylinder. Perhaps it's only one or two valves that's bad.

T-spoon
08-30-2014, 03:01 AM
I reck'n. Which to me (if I were looking for a car like this) would seem like a great opportunity to get it cheaper than I should, but I think for a lot of people it will sound scary and they won't want it, even a couple grand cheaper than the same car claiming to have no issues.

Luni
09-02-2014, 10:12 PM
It is scary, cause you dont KNOW that you didnt do any other damage. Youre hoping, but you dont KNOW.

I mean, no matter what, its a gamble. You are inheriting someone elses project. Not trying to put a negative spin on it, just trying to be realistic.

T-spoon
09-03-2014, 03:37 AM
^ Meh, kind of not really in this case. It's really a stock powerplant, there's no wild unknown modifications. Yes, the damage isn't known for absolute 100% certainty, but it's a pretty good bet. Heck, even buying a used head and slapping it on there would still likely come out ahead of buying the same car "without issues" (as if there's such a thing with a used car, that's ALWAYS a gamble, regardless of what the owner claims is or isn't wrong with it, they don't KNOW either. It could be fine for 10k miles, or it could break on the drive home). My asking price is realistic. I see spyders with certain-to-fail 1zz's sold all the time for 7-8k. $4500 for mine is more than reasonable. It's fine though, I always give cars away instead of selling them for what I should, and I'm sure I'll do the same in this case.

Funkycheeze
09-03-2014, 08:41 PM
You might be better off to take out a small loan to pay off the car and get the engine fixed, then sell it in good running condition.

I would borrow a boreoscope to check the condition of the piston top and cylinder walls on the bad cylinder - make sure a busted piece of valve didn't cause all sorts of havoc in there.

Luni
09-05-2014, 06:30 PM
David,

You arent understanding what I was saying. Anytime you buy a swapped car from someone, especially someone you dont know, you have only their word that things are what they are. You have only their word that they did the swap properly. On the surface it may appear legit, but if someone had to tear the engine out, they may find some shady ass shit.

Not saying thats YOUR scenario, I know you know how to work on cars. I would feel fine buying YOUR project. What Im saying is to the general populace, who may be looking at this thing as a potential buy, theres gonna be that nagging doubt in the back of their head.

I wasnt saying your car sucks or your price is too high. I was saying, if I didnt know you and I was looking at potentially buying this thing, Id be skeptical at best. Not that I wouldnt feel it out and give it a shot, but I wouldnt go into buying a car like this guns a blazin. Thats all I was sayin.

T-spoon
09-07-2014, 02:05 AM
Yeah, I know. Anyway.. she's sold. Just helped load her onto a flatbead to be taken to her new home 45minutes north of here. I'm sad, but I'll get over it. Just a car..

Nitro_Alltrac
09-07-2014, 03:27 PM
Maybe just a car but you get attached to them and it's hard to see them go.