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METDeath
04-03-2014, 06:54 PM
Can you SQ folks point me in the direction of a good passive cross over to help make my speaker set up effectively components instead of having too many tweeters?

david in germany
04-04-2014, 06:05 PM
Can you SQ folks point me in the direction of a good passive cross over to help make my speaker set up effectively components instead of having too many tweeters?
What are you running?

Luni
04-04-2014, 08:59 PM
How many drivers do you need to cross over?

You got the equivalent of 3 ways right? Woofs in the doors, mids in the dash and tweets in the upper doors?

METDeath
04-05-2014, 12:39 AM
Alpine SPR-10TW Tweeters (http://www.alpine-usa.com/product/view/spr-10tw)
Infinity 429i (Front) (http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/kappa-429i.html)
Infinity 629i (Rear) (http://us.infinitysystems.com/product-detail-11657/kappa-629i.html)
Renegade RX830 (Doors, woofer only, mid/tweet removed)

The doors are on the sub channel, so already set to cover 45hz (speaker lower limit) and somewhere around 150hz (amp LPF). The Alpine tweeters have a built in HPF with a negative gain adjustment (0 db to -6 db in 2 db steps), so really, I guess I need a LPF that has much higher roll off (maybe around 1200hz? since the tweeters do 1000 hz to 29k hz) the Infinity speakers to help cut those tweeters down. Or I guess I could just cut the tweeter wiring on the Infinity speakers... not sure on the tweeter/woofer performance on the Infinity speakers... wonder if they can send me that information.

I may get bored and build my own filters since installing those will be the same amount of effort as butchering the speakers... plus if I change my speakers, I'm not stuck with useless lumps, I have unmolested medium quality speakers.

Luni
04-08-2014, 06:16 PM
Id kill the tweeters on the Infinitys to be honest. If you have a high stage tweeter in in the mirror area of your door, you dont want another one aiming at your legs from your dash. They will be phasing each other and causing some unwanted effects. The lower the frequency, the more "omnidirectional" it becomes. So having the infinitys spitting out some midrange sound is OK.

If I were you Id either get a set of 3 way crossovers (look for MB Quart, ADS, Rainbow, Focal) off of ebay, or Id get an active crossover, and use it to control everything in the preamp stage.

METDeath
04-08-2014, 07:04 PM
Id kill the tweeters on the Infinitys to be honest. If you have a high stage tweeter in in the mirror area of your door, you dont want another one aiming at your legs from your dash. They will be phasing each other and causing some unwanted effects. The lower the frequency, the more "omnidirectional" it becomes. So having the infinitys spitting out some midrange sound is OK.

If I were you Id either get a set of 3 way crossovers (look for MB Quart, ADS, Rainbow, Focal) off of ebay, or Id get an active crossover, and use it to control everything in the preamp stage.

Examples of each?

Or should I just physically cut the tweeter wire? (may have to hunt for it or seriously disassemble the Infinity speakers.

I've found the tools/calculators to make my own filters to stick in on the speakers to cut the highs down on the Infinity speakers.

Also, as I see it, the problem with active is that I only have a 4.1 amp, so I'd need a much larger in/out amplifier or another amplifier just for the tweeters since actives go before the amplifier (as I understand it). Granted, power isn't an issue as I ran a 4 GA cable, for my amp (I simply went largest physical size for the amp and used the correct fuse for how much power I was planning to draw).

Luni
04-08-2014, 08:15 PM
Well, then do what you had previously thought of doing, since your entire build is pretty unorthodox.

I mean, in car audio its always been my way to keep it simple. If I were you, from the get go, Id have prolly set it up the way I described initially since its the simplest way to do what you are trying to do.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/ESP-ES-3X01-300-watt-Three-Way-Stereo-Crossover-Network-/251395622726?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a8858c746

Otherwise Im not finding a lot of stuff on ebay that isnt horribly expensive or active.

METDeath
04-08-2014, 08:40 PM
FYI, here's my current wiring setup (P indicates parallel with the other drivers in the circuit):

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/6/3/5/9/radio_wiring.png (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23665)

I'm 50/50 on either a) cutting the tweeter wiring on the Infinity speakers, or b) making my own passive cross over to roll off the upper end on those speakers and keep them stock should I replace them with designed component sets at some point in the future. Leaning more towards option b because you can't exactly undo cutting a wire.

Luni
04-08-2014, 08:55 PM
I dunno, there are many ways to skin a cat here.

If it were me, Id look for some cheap 2 way passive crossovers on ebay and Id cut my tweeter wires on the infinitys in the dash and rear.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AUDIOPIPE-PASSIVE-2WAY-CAR-AUDIO-4-OHM-CROSSOVER-400W-EACH-TOTAL-OF-TWO-PAIRS-/171289882458?pt=US_Signal_Processors&hash=item27e1ac2f5a

Something like that maybe.

METDeath
04-08-2014, 09:45 PM
Honestly, with those, would I even need to cut the tweeters on the Infinity speakers? That'd filter out the majority of the overlapping frequencies with that sharp of a roll off. The other catch is... if I use that cross over, should I still use the Alpine one or will that really load the system?

That said... those are designed for 4 Ohm drivers, my tweeters are 4 Ohm, and the Infinity speakers are either 2 or 4 Ohm depending on who you believe online (Infinity or Crutchfield). That said, the 629i were hooked up to my head unit which is 4 Ohm. I will end up disconnecting one of the speakers and testing before purchasing the crossover, if the meter says 4 Ohm resistance on a single driver, then I'll get those for sure since I have some eBay bucks from purchases last month.

Shadowlife25
04-09-2014, 03:32 AM
Using xovers that aren't designed for your drivers can have negative effects as well. Consider that the roll-off points and the slopes may (likely) not be what you need. Also that many xovers are designed for different driver impedances. SO if it is a driver for a matched 2 way set (or 3) those impedances will be very different than what you are trying to run.
I know it sounds lame, but honestly, going active is the best way to handle this issue. Even really experienced guys that CAN build xover networks would advise you to go active in this situation. I mean if you want the most bang for your buck and you don't want to use packaged sets with their own networks and are in essence using raw drivers, active is definitely the way to go.
Hell, I have a JBL MS-8 sitting in my garage still in the box with the driver CD and everything it came with. It was used, but is still in like new condition. I paid $350 for it. I could do you better if you were interested in using it. It would also match the current setup you want for channels as well.
Either way, going active gets my vote. Much simpler to implement, a LOT more control over frequencies and slopes, OE Integration ready and over all no hassle after setup and tuning.

METDeath
04-09-2014, 01:38 PM
Using xovers that aren't designed for your drivers can have negative effects as well. Consider that the roll-off points and the slopes may (likely) not be what you need. Also that many xovers are designed for different driver impedances. SO if it is a driver for a matched 2 way set (or 3) those impedances will be very different than what you are trying to run.
I know it sounds lame, but honestly, going active is the best way to handle this issue. Even really experienced guys that CAN build xover networks would advise you to go active in this situation. I mean if you want the most bang for your buck and you don't want to use packaged sets with their own networks and are in essence using raw drivers, active is definitely the way to go.
Hell, I have a JBL MS-8 sitting in my garage still in the box with the driver CD and everything it came with. It was used, but is still in like new condition. I paid $350 for it. I could do you better if you were interested in using it. It would also match the current setup you want for channels as well.
Either way, going active gets my vote. Much simpler to implement, a LOT more control over frequencies and slopes, OE Integration ready and over all no hassle after setup and tuning.

That's an awesome deal on some kick ass audio hardware, but it's a bit out of my price/work willing to do range at the moment. That grade of hardware would be lost on me as I'm not an audiophile, just want decent sounding, but capable of being loud.

The tweeter is indeed 4 Ohm, and is using a second order filter (coil and cap), I'm going to check the impedance of the Infinity speakers and the make a matching low pass filter using math. I may get lucky and they are actually 4 Ohm, which means no math required, just adjust the order of the wiring (coil on positive, cap after coil)

Luni
04-09-2014, 07:31 PM
Mario I may want that MS8. Actually... if you end up getting that Broccord, you may wanna keep that thing. Marshall, I have an old Sony active crossover system Mario sent me. If youre interested in it, its yours, Although it still doesnt address the issue you have where you technically need more channels of amplification.

Shadowlife25
04-10-2014, 03:00 AM
Fair enough. :)

Just to toss another great option on to the pile here... EPIC deal on some JBL MS series amplifiers.
Use code:
DNEWSMSA
This makes the total $200 each. ;)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29471_JBL-MS-A1004.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29472_JBL-MS-A5001.html

Those amplifiers have built in digital xovers as well.
I know out of budget at current for you Marshall, but if anyone is interested that is really an awesome deal. If I had the cash, I would get em.

Luni
04-10-2014, 05:42 AM
Mario, remind me around December/New Years to look and see what I can get those for from my guy.

Shadowlife25
04-10-2014, 05:51 AM
Will do. :)

METDeath
04-10-2014, 12:25 PM
If I added another amplifier it'd be a smaller 4 channel just for the tweeters. As it is, I remembered last night that the Infinity speakers have external cross overs, so won't be building anything, just figuring out which wire is the tweeter and snip inside the housing for the cross over, more than likely. I'm just hoping they made it easy for me to that very thing.

Really hate it when I do all this overly complicated thinking for nada... then that should put me at 2 Ohm (4 & 4 parallel) instead of 1.333 Ohm (4, 4, 4 parallel).

david in germany
04-10-2014, 05:55 PM
Fair enough. :)

Just to toss another great option on to the pile here... EPIC deal on some JBL MS series amplifiers.
Use code:
DNEWSMSA
This makes the total $200 each. ;)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29471_JBL-MS-A1004.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_29472_JBL-MS-A5001.html

Those amplifiers have built in digital xovers as well.
I know out of budget at current for you Marshall, but if anyone is interested that is really an awesome deal. If I had the cash, I would get em.

Running these in the bmw with my MS-8. They are simply amazing amps!


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Shadowlife25
04-14-2014, 05:13 AM
I kind of lusted after them for a hot minute but when new they were $500 a piece all day long. So that was a no-go situation. :D

Glad to hear they they deliver as promised though. I think they may even be a superior offering than the Apline PDX series of digital power density amplifiers. I mean really, simiar form factor, great power, rock solid rails with minimal sag and a really nice x-over built in as well with adjustable slopes is pretty hard to beat for a package deal in such a small amount of real estate.

david in germany
04-27-2014, 10:02 PM
Mario, you still have the ms-8? Want to work out a trade for some other audio? Sundown Sub? Other stuff?


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METDeath
04-27-2014, 10:05 PM
Mario, you still have the ms-8? Want to work out a trade for some other audio? Sundown Sub? Other stuff?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

What, you couldn't just PM him? Gotta threadcrap in my thread!??


Just kidding!

david in germany
04-28-2014, 09:10 AM
What, you couldn't just PM him? Gotta threadcrap in my thread!??


Just kidding!

BBQ invite?



You know, the BBQ where I slap my meat on your grill....

Luni
04-28-2014, 10:41 PM
DIG, back up off my koolaid bitch!

METDeath
04-29-2014, 03:07 AM
Girls, girls! You're both pretty!

david in germany
04-29-2014, 05:29 AM
DIG, back up off my koolaid bitch!

I'll be gentle. No bruises I promise.


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