PDA

View Full Version : 3sgte timing belt noise.



ST205 TRD
02-23-2014, 01:14 AM
Sometimes I can hear a rattling noise from the timing belt the first 10 seconds after startup. If I stop the engine and restart it usually goes away. It sounds like the belt is touching the cover. The noise is very noticeable. I heard it first time a couple of months ago, and then nothing until last week.
The belt has only done 35000 kilometer, and is 5 years old.
Does this mean the tensioner is failing? Do I risk the belt slipping if I use it?

Facime
02-23-2014, 11:08 PM
What you might actually be hearing is a bearing failure in the tensioner or idler rather than the belt itself.

Anything making noise like that is only a matter of time before it fails completely. Would you rather deal with it under controlled circumstances, or wait for it to fail on you at a bad time in a bad place?


I would tear into it and replace all the components (idler/tensioner, water pump and maybe even the oil pump) asap.

Nitro_Alltrac
02-24-2014, 12:25 AM
Facime is right. Changing the belt is pain under normal circumstance. You really don't want something to fail, break the belt and have a royal mess.

ST205 TRD
02-25-2014, 07:31 PM
It sounds like the belt is slapping the beltcover, not like a broken bearing. And its a bit strange that the noise is only there very briefly and random. But I think you are right. IT is my tensioner that causes this.

I decided to order parts and change the belt, tensioner, waterpump and pulleys. Would it be preferable with genuine parts just to be safe? Or would aftermarked parts work as well? (Genuine parts are over 1800$, aftermarked is 6-700$)
How much for genuine parts in the US? Any recomended sites for genuine parts?

Facime
02-26-2014, 05:53 AM
You can get a decent quality aftermarket timing set for around $150US and another $100 for the oil pump.

I think Toyota quality is excellent but at least for the belt and idler/tensioner I dont see the need to buy genuine toyota. Water pump/oil pump I would look for Aisin (OEM) brand aftermarket parts.



As for the belt "slapping" It dawned on me...isnt the ST205 motor a hydraulic tensioner (rather than a simple spring)? If so, your initial guess would have been right. Its probable your hydraulic tensioner has worn out and it bleeds off pressure and needs to pump back up, thus why you only hear the sound for a short time immediately after startup. If thats the case then a simple change of that component should fix your problem. Definately sooner rather than later because its highly likely your belt will jump a tooth or two at some point.

Funkycheeze
02-26-2014, 09:01 PM
205 still uses springloaded tensioner with 'grenade pin' for the timing belt.

ST205 TRD
02-27-2014, 04:47 AM
I dont know if its a spring or hydraulics. But it is always refered to as a"hydraulic cambelt tensioner" I would post a link but Im not allowed to do so yet :)
Either way if the tensioner failes it wont apply correct pressure to the tensioner pulley. The belt will have enough slack to make contact with the cover either before or after the pulley.
Would probably be enough to just do the tensioner, but since it over five years since last belt change its probably due anyway. I got a quote from Toyota for the job including the waterpump at 2700$. I think they are smoking crack :)

alltracman78
02-28-2014, 03:04 AM
It's a hydraulic tensioner, not a spring tensioner. But it it never bleeds off pressure. You're probably thinking of hydraulic tensioners for a timing chain, that use engine oil for pressure. This is a sealed unit, always pressurized.

Easy enough to see if it's the belt slapping. Pull the upper cover off [5 10mm bolts] before you start it.

IMO it's not worth changing the belt if you don't need to; you shouldn't have a problem getting 100,000 miles out of the belt. If it is the tensioner just replace that. No need to even pull the belt to do it. Use binder clips to hold the belt on the pulleys, remove the old tensioner and replace with a new one [get new bolts too, the old ones strech]. It'll save you a good chunk of cash.

Facime
02-28-2014, 08:39 AM
yay someone who knows what they are talking about. (I do not. My GTE experience is super limited)

ST205 TRD
02-28-2014, 06:54 PM
Can I just remove the nr 2 beltcover (top)??? I was under the impression that I had to remove the left engine mount, jack up the engine and remove the power steer reservoir just to gain acces to the 5 bolts???

Just got a hold of the previous owner. He told me the tensinoer, belt, pulleys and waterpump was changed at 102000km. So the belt has only done 37000 km. I will try just changing the tensioner.
Can this be changed just by removing the nr 2 cover? If so, then Its a walk in the park compared to a full belt change.
Thanks for the help guys :)

Funkycheeze
02-28-2014, 09:44 PM
You can get to the tensioner by removing the engine mount (while supporting the engine with a brace) and then both the plastic timing belt covers (to do this you will need to adjust the engine up/down a bit with the mount removed, and remove the accessory belt and crank dampener/pulley). Then you could technically change the belt as well.

It is also handy to drain the PS system so you can get the return hose out of the way.

alltracman78
02-28-2014, 10:54 PM
I would start by removing the upper cover and verifying whether it's the belt or not. :)

How much stuff you have to take off depends on your skill level. Something that's a simple job to one person can become a whole lot more complicated if someone else tries it. :)
How experienced are you at working on your car? I assume you've done at least one timing belt on it?

Also, I've done a lot of timing belts on 3SGTEs, but I've never worked on an ST205 before. I've also never worked on a RHD car, so there may be other things in the way that I don't know about. Keep this in mind. But, from pictures it looks like an ST205 has slightly more room than an ST185. And it looks like the brake master cylinder on a RHD car gets in the way a little bit [you're in Norway, right? So I'm assuming a RHD car].

You MIGHT be able to pull the upper cover off without removing the engine mount, but you shouldn't have to remove the power steering reservior, just pull it up out of it's bracket and to the side a little bit.

To replace the tensioner you will have to remove the engine mount, but you shouldn't have to remove the lower timing belt cover [depending on experience], just the upper cover.
Removing the mount lets you raise the engine up some, which makes it easier to access the tensioner.
If you do replace the tensioner without taking everything apart, make sure you use binder clips to hold the belt to the timing gears [ http://www.aveoforum.com/forum/attachments/f94/6784d1373308712-2007-aveo-timing-belt-binder-clips-jpg ]. Also try to keep as much tension as possible on the belt while you're doing it, if the belt comes off one of the lower pulleys you'll probably have to take everything apart.


But please verify first! It does sound strange to me the tensioner would only be loose right at start up. If the noise really is coming from the timing belt area and not the engine my first guess would be a pulley/water pump and not the tensioner.

ST205 TRD
03-01-2014, 05:39 AM
Hehe.... We have LHD cars in all of Europe except in England :) Even the swedes switched in the 70`s.

I have experience with mechanics, but not so much engines. Mostly form heavy duty piston and screw compressors. I have not done a timing belt before but I should be allright with a little help.

Im pretty sure the noise is coming from the belt cover, but yes its very strange that it goes away after a few seconds. I will try to remove the top cover tomorrow and take a look.

Thank you all for the help :)

ST205 TRD
03-02-2014, 07:17 PM
I opened the cover today, and it looks allright to me. The belt seems to atleast have some tension, but im uncertain if its enough. Between the exhaustpulley and the waterpump I can move the belt about
10 mm back an forth.

If I push the belt outwards between the oilpump and the tensioner, the tensioner moves slightly (0,5-1mm). There is a VERY small oilleak around the tensioner area. But I cant see where its coming from. It looks like the tensionerpulley has made a tiny notch in the lower cover,but not where the belt is in contact with the pulley. I dont think this could have made the noise.

Does it sound like this is correct?? I have some oics but I dont know how to post them.

I cannot hear any noise from the cover now, even when revving the engine.

ST205 TRD
03-05-2014, 03:21 PM
All my thread dies when I get close to the solution :( But Thanks alot for pointing me in the right direction :)

alltracman78
03-06-2014, 05:47 AM
If you're not hearing any noise with the cover off, it's probably the belt.
And off the top of my head 10mm of play is a lot for a timing belt. Sounds like it's loose. But hard to tell from here. :P
The oil leak is probably from your head. If it's from the tensioner, it's bad. Period.
You can also remove the tensioner and see how hard it is to compress it. It should be really hard. As in you have to use a vise to do it.

ST205 TRD
03-13-2014, 06:49 PM
Well.... I havent heard the noise at all last 2 weeks after i took the cover on and off. Talked to a mechanic at Toyota, he told me he never really heard of a toyota timingbelt/tensioner failing after just 35000 km.
But its impossible to know if it was done correctly when it was changed.

I dont think it looks loose.... but im no expert.
Im going to risk it and use the car carefully...... If I ever hear the noise again I`ll change the tensioner and belt.

underscore
03-13-2014, 07:23 PM
Could the cover have been sitting incorrectly? That would explain why the sound is now gone.

ST205 TRD
03-14-2014, 01:56 PM
It could be... because I did find a tiny notch in the lower cover, exactly where the two covers meet. Looks like its caused by contact with the tensionerpulley. If the two covers did not align perfectly I guess it could push the lower cover to far in towards the tensioner pulley and make such a noise.

But the cover has metal spacers in the boltholes, and it seems like its difficult to mount this the wrong way.

This is why I want to hear that noise again. If it never returns it was probably the cover.

ST205 TRD
03-17-2014, 10:58 AM
Craaaaaaaaaaaaaap...... My cambelt told me clearly and lodly today at minus 12 centigrades, exacly where and what makes the sound. Since the motorcompoments are metal they`ll shrink more than the belt in "deepfreeze" conditions.
Today the noise didnt go away after 10 secound... more like 30. So I had no problem locatin that the belt slappes the cover between the tesionerpulley and intake pulley.
Its more severe now and last much longer now.

Think the tenioner has bleed off som of the oil (any loss of fluid wil devastat the set pressure) :( . There was a tiny/micro oil leak around it, but it coild just com from the head like Facime sayd.

So now the car will only be started to drive it to the workshop..... hehe. Wih my luck it blows up in my face 5 meters from the garage :)
IS it 2,5 hours that is the going rate in UK? for a change of belt and tensioner.?

Wel well....... Now Im going to be thinking about cambelts for four weeks in Thailand :(

alltracman78
03-21-2014, 02:32 AM
Don't worry too much, the stock engine is non interference, so if it breaks you just need a tow, not a new engine.
Make sure it's installed right, and they pulled the "grenade pin".

ST205 TRD
01-25-2015, 12:40 AM
Sorry for the laaaate update. I changed the tensioner and the belt. And the tensioner was so "soft" i could push it in with my hands.
So if you hear a rattling from your timingbelt cover its likely your tensioner is dying.