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BlueDragon
11-04-2013, 11:06 PM
I am going to be buying as a bundle :
205
Engine w/ecu harness uncut
Transmission
Subframes
Suspension up front
All 4 CVs
Steering rack
All rotors and calipers etc
Rear diff (assuming its LSD)

Basically the whole under part of a 205 and putting everything possible onto my 185.

Looking for suggestions, things to expect.
Anyone with any experience swapping ANY of these please chime in.

Everything is running fine in my car... a tax return and a craigslist add is what inspired this all.

There is a 91GT with undented exterior and mint interior and a bad motor in town and the guy wants a grand. I figured I can talk him down to 800 or so.... Put all the sweet 205 stuff in my car, then put my 185 engine on the GT trans, maybe put the alltrac brakes on or whatever too. Then maybe sell it to my sister or brother, or just keep it! Don't know yet! lol

I am very excited about this! 2 big projects, and I actually will have the money to DO something on them for once! With the tax return to buy the 205 parts and the car, and me making almost 2 times an hour what I have been for the last 3-4 years, this rocket is about ready for ignition!

underscore
11-04-2013, 11:13 PM
If everything is running fine, why are you bothering with all this? What are you hoping to gain?

BlueDragon
11-04-2013, 11:18 PM
Better brakes, trans, engine, and an LSD for my car.
A swapped GT from what is left over.
Basicly everything on the 205 is an upgrade over 185.
And the parts I replace are upgrades for the GT.
2 birds one stone.

Facime
11-08-2013, 10:30 PM
well I dont know where you live but why not just get an ST205? (if all the mechanicals are available locally it stands to reason you can buy a whole car).


Its an awful lot of work for what amounts to a GT swap plus a little perfomance upgrade to your car. You could just spend a few bucks on upgrading what you have (bigger turbo, front mount, head work, coilovers, BBK, etc.) and probably come out ahead in terms of performance for the $$.


I cant tell you how many times Ive seen a good deal on something and bought it cheap only to sink more money into the project than if I had simply started with something better to begin with.

jdm_celica_gts
11-09-2013, 12:20 AM
If your gonna swap stuff off the car, I'll buy your steering knuckles and hubs from your 185. Assuming you take them off since they are identical to the ones on your 184.

BlueDragon
11-09-2013, 12:56 AM
Nope 205 are not available in US. I am not just doing it for a faster car. The whole package is Toyota, no better upgrade than that in my opinion. I have been looking at a lot of 205 parts to upgrade to, LSD, brakes, trans etc. I want to upgrade a little but not looking to buy aftermarket brakes and stuff. Bought separately this package would be near 5000 if collected one part at a time. It is a hell of a deal, plus the side product is enough parts to get the GT up and with a sweet engine (the one I have now). I will be more than happy to sell you at least one of the hubs and both the knuckles... I would like to keep a spare hub incase.... I have already ruined 2 in my alltrac. The bearings go bad and you cannot even hear them!!! BOOOOOO

jdm_celica_gts
11-09-2013, 02:33 AM
If you could spare a front right one tht would be awesome haha.
Also if you get shift control cables and upgrade to the 205 trans. I really need some. Of course the one I need is discontinued by toyota.

BlueDragon
11-11-2013, 03:56 PM
I might want to hang onto extra shift cables because of that very thing. But I will help you out with the other stuff.

Anyone with 205 stuff reading this yet?

jdm_celica_gts
11-14-2013, 07:13 PM
If you have any luck finding another set of cables and those 205 brakes. Let me know how much and I'll throw some compensation in for a finders fee haha

BlueDragon
12-01-2013, 05:47 PM
I cant tell you how many times Ive seen a good deal on something and bought it cheap only to sink more money into the project than if I had simply started with something better to begin with.

I definitely understand what your saying here now. I was looking around at other cheap project type cars to buy, and I re-read your post and thought about not even buying the other celica and just putting more into my 185. I almost bought some K-sport coilovers. But a few days ago I decided to go see the car in person since its right in my town and WOW this guy REALLY REALLY took care of this thing. The interior is litteraly like mint accept for the usual crack on the center console/armrest cover. The body has no dents or dings, the guy had it painted in mexico so the paint is flaking off already but the body work is legit. It DOES have the engine and tranny in the car still, so that's another thing making it worth it to me since I don't have to source a transmission to do the swap.

Thinking about just buying a 205 engine trans ecu only for my car to keep the cost of the whole project down. I can acquire 205 brakes elsewhere.

I still am really interested (before I buy coilovers) to see if someone can measure the shock mounts up top on a 205 as compared to a 185. I was thinking perhaps if I bought 205 coilovers I could actually use the 205 knuckles and stuff maybe? This is probably an impossible pipe dream but I thought maybe at the worst you would need to put 185 coilover tops onto 205 bottoms if everything on the bottom side bolted in (like the rear sub-frame seems to do). It would be costly to buy 2 pair of coilovers but it would be a totally unique setup if it panned out

soarinhigh
12-01-2013, 07:33 PM
I've been driving on my 205 swap for about 600 miles now. It's awesome:) worth every penny. If you aren't good with wiring I would sell your 205 harness and have one made. I had tweaked performance make my harness and it made everything a lot easier.

BlueDragon
12-02-2013, 01:04 AM
I have already re-pinned my harness and am running Gen 3 ecu already. Should be a breeze.

soarinhigh
12-02-2013, 03:40 AM
The 205 uses a super strut setup as far as I know. At least in the non WRC version. I don't think you can swap it into the 185 without a LOT of fabrication.

I bought a half cut of a 205 and it helped a lot with cost as far as finding all the little parts. I say go for it. Just make sure you have the budget. My build was almost twice what I planned to spend.

BlueDragon
12-03-2013, 06:53 AM
I don't really understand what that means. From what I can see in this picture its not that much different unless it attaches somewhere else on the chassis. Wouldn't it all come with that front sub frame? I wish someone would come in that has tried or thought of this and tell me its a pipe dream already. lol
http://www.ebay.com/itm/JDM-Toyota-Celica-ST205-GT4-3SGTE-Turbo-Engine-GT-Four-AWD-Transmission-Brakes-/121122097495?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1c33708957&vxp=mtr#ht_12787wt_790

bloodMoney
12-03-2013, 07:01 PM
The crossmembers have different mounting locations between the two generations. The 205 xmember is 51201-20310 and the 185 xmember is 51201-20230.

If you pull up the diagrams on toyodiy, you can see they are vastly different.

The rear will mount right up though as they both have the same part number 51206-20011. That's why all the rear stuff will work.

In your case, I'd get an engine set with the rear diff, axles and harness/ECU.

I'm sure the front can be made to mount up, but it depends on how deep your pockets are.

BlueDragon
12-04-2013, 03:58 PM
Yeah that's gonna be a deal breaker on the front I guess. Have to decide whether or not it is still worth it to buy that package. I would assume selling the parts I don't use would probably make up for it. Just an engine and trans are around 1600 with shipping....
Well thanks a lot for the info bloodMoney, I will have to remember toyodiy.

bloodMoney
12-04-2013, 04:40 PM
No problem.

If you do decide to buy an front clip, you may get some takers on the sheet metal or anybody wanting to do a RHD conversion, but that depends on how long you're wanting to sit on that $$$.

soarinhigh
12-04-2013, 04:53 PM
If you get a clip I will buy the brake master cylinder and booster from you:) I got a clip but got burned on some of the parts, I do still have a garage full of 205 stuff tho hahahaha!

BlueDragon
02-16-2014, 02:56 AM
I paid for it yesterday, I guess I will see how much of it I can fit. The rest will be up for grabs. I hope to get the brakes as well but if they prove too fiddly they will be up as well.

BlueDragon
02-24-2014, 03:38 PM
I guess what could be called Project St-195 will begin today. I almost don't want to make a project thread because I am too lazy to post every time I start a thread lol It would be really useful to document all the little things you need to do to make all the 205 stuff work.... sigh I need a camera man or something lol

alltracman78
02-28-2014, 03:37 AM
There isn't a lot to it, the front suspension won't work without some serious cutting/welding.
The calipers bolt on to the knuckle but aren't usable as is; the rotors won't. There are ways to make it work, but I've only gotten as far as confirming they won't fit.
Engine/transmission bolts in. Harness is the obvious.
Rear subframe and diff are identical.
Control arms and rear axles are slightly longer but do bolt on [gives you more camber].
Rear knuckles are the same, but the dust shield is larger and the hub has a slightly different size centric [IIRC it's slightly smaller].
Rear calipers bolt on, but are too large for the 185 rotors [they work fine, but the pads overhang the rotor].

None of the engine bay stuff works [unless you have a LHD clip].

That's pretty much it, as far as I remember. Haven't touched the car in months. :P

BlueDragon
03-08-2014, 11:10 PM
I am all the way into the harness now. I already changed all the motor mounts that are different and stripped off all the extras from the engine that I wont be using. There are several guys on alltrac.net that have put the 205 brakes on I cant find what he said you have to do. I mocked them up it looks like milling a little off the outside circumference should get them to bolt up but the rotors seem like they would rub the bottom ball joint, maybe you can put a spacer in there or something I don't know what the solution is exactly but it must not be that bad. I am hoping the whole rear with brakes and all will go in easy. I will update soon, I will also be posting up some stuff for sale. I didn't get a clip so no body parts. I am going to try and make the 205 fuse box work did any of you guys do that?

bloodMoney
03-10-2014, 09:25 PM
There are 6g guys that have been using the FRS front rotors and just tapping the knuckles. The rears should just be a direct replacement.

Maybe this is something that you want to look into? Supposedly, it's a bolt-on affair.....

I'll let someone else talk to the fuse box.

alltracman78
03-12-2014, 10:48 PM
Aren't the BRZ rotors thinner? How soon will they warp under the 205 calipers?

BlueDragon
03-20-2014, 12:03 AM
I can finaly get online! I have been working on everything I could do without internet access to sell and order parts. Still thinking about a project thread...
The rear subframe was pretty rough on this thing so I am cleaning it and de-oxidizing it for paint. The car is without any drivetrain pieces now and I am going to go ahead and shave a bit and re-paint the engine bay. Also going to clean up and paint the 205 calipers and rotors black. Thinking alum for the Celica on them. I got the worst of the harness done which was re-routing the ecu loom from right to left. I also got most of the coil on plug system wired into the loom. It is all going to be super clean running through the stock harness and then through the stock plug wire holder. I am thinking about taking the clean look to a new level in the engine bay and shaving some things off the firewall and bay and removing the annoying little fuse box by the alternator and little things like that while I am at it. I can route most of the ugly sensors and things that usually clutter up the engine bay too since the harness is all unwrapped. I'll try to post pics when something gets accomplished.

BlueDragon
03-31-2014, 04:02 PM
Well this is getting to be a fun little project! The rear subframe bolts and stuff were super rusty so I have done the rust removal. So far so good! NOW most of the protective coatings have come off from both rust and the rust removal process. So I am researching and in the process of designing a low cost (not cheap and crappy) electroplating system to re-do all this stuff so it will hold up a while.

I did manage to get one 20X side installed. Very happy with the fitment and look, very small amount of cutting needed by the door on the rear. I managed to attach it with 7 of the stock mounting points to the rocker panel under the door, then 6 counter sunk rivets to finish the ends, should be pretty clean.
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/gallery/image.php?album_id=110&image_id=877&view=no_count

Routed and mocked up the COP system through the stock wire holder.http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/gallery/image.php?album_id=110&image_id=879&view=no_count
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/gallery/image.php?album_id=110&image_id=880&view=no_count
I have a set of black plug wires I am going to try to CAREFULLY cut for these. These nasty red ones came with an extra COP kit I bought for parts, just using them for mock up =P All black and aluminum for the engine bay.

crymson
04-01-2014, 08:25 PM
Oh, that skirt looks good. I wanna see what it looks like when you get them both installed and painted

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk

BlueDragon
05-19-2014, 03:47 PM
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/20140519_082908.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23789)
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/20140519_0828351.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23790)

BlueDragon
05-31-2014, 01:19 PM
Well this has all gotten way out of hand. This is almost turning into a full restoration/revamp of everything dash forward sans the body. I am almost done with the engine bay wire tuck and 205 fuse box conversion.
Engine bay shaving including
ABS brick, re-routing brake lines out of sight.
Relocating Power steering res and re-routing lines.
Remove stock radiator fan and placing one in front of the radiator to clean up the engine bay that much more.
Removed fuse box near alternator.
Removed AC core from my heating system, and about 30 mice turds and 20 plus years of dirt and grime! EWWWWWW No wonder it smelled like a pile of old socks and underwear the first few times I turn on my air every year! lol
Not being able to finish has lead me into doing maintenance that I probably never would have gotten to so this is a nice side-effect of my parts not selling quickly! lol
I decided to go ahead and remove every heating duct and clean them thoroughly.
I already removed the Air bag ecu and sensors, I will probably go ahead and take the time to strip out all the extra wiring for that and the AC also.
Thinking about swapping to a heater control that was for NON-ac cars to complete the removal visually.
Re re-locating the battery to the back where I had it before.
I started the wire tuck on the engine harness as well, it is now going to run under the intake manifold where all the VSV stuff was. I know this seems like overkill for little reward but its already completely stripped so its easy. Converting every grey heat protection piece to black ones taken from 3 harnesses. The harness is now going to enter where the AC lines used to hook up as well, making it just that much cleaner in the engine bay, and making room to mount the Power steering rez up in that corner somehow. I have the 205 res and lines as well as the stock stuff so I should be able to figure something clean out.
Wire brushing off some of the excess sealant they just gob on everywhere before I paint it, debating bondo, but I am really just going for clean rather then a "shaved smooth bay. I do not think I want to fill all the mounting holes and stuff, but I have not decided yet. I think the only right way to do that is probably weld them all shut.
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/s30a00421.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23797)
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/s30a00411.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23794)
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/s30a00481.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23798)
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/s30a00491.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23796)
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/s30a00531.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23799)
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/8/9/2/s30a00511.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=23795)