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muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-10-2013, 01:42 PM
OK so here is an update. I recently got home from deployment. I opted to just buy all the engine rebuild stuff for my 5sfe engine. im droping the engine at the end of the month striping it down and taking it to the machine shop to have the block steam cleaned cylinders honed and have a flow test done on the head. I bought a new gaskit rebuild kit for top and bottom end Oil pump water pump with new timing belt and pullies. Soon enough ill be ordering the forged pistons and rods from real street performance and getting the turbo kit for it.

The several questions I do have is
1. I want to have the 3sgte valves, springs, and valve guids put on the 5s head I know it can be done with 3s or 2jz parts. Has anyone atempted this?

2. Where can I get my head and intake manifold ported and polished.

3. I will be using 5s forged internals and was told by real street performance that there pistons are mad to take 1mm oversized valves. So is there anything else I need for head rebuild other than the 3s valves, springs, guids. will i need 3s top end gaskit kit or will the 5s kit that i just bought work fine?

4. What size and kind of injectors should I go with.

5. For computer should i just have it flashed at a dyno shop or is there a tuner you can buy for the stock computer?

6. Is there any racing radiator that I can buy or will a new OEM radiator do just fine?

This is a total rebuild. WIll also be atempting a wire tuck to clean up the engine bay and spraying the engine bay in ryno linner to give it a clean look and easier to clean up.

BabyBear
10-10-2013, 07:41 PM
Mrturrari did some headwork with 2jz valves I think. I believe its in his project thread here http://www.celicatech.com/forums/showthread.php?55727-My-forever-onging-project-quot-The-Dragon-quot

The injector size really depends on the power output you want and the fuel you're going to be running. You don't want to go too big but you definitely don't want too small. What kind of power are you looking for?

For the computer, you need to buy a standalone. The Toyota ECU's can't be reprogrammed like a lot of other ones can. There are piggy backs you can run if you aren't planning on going super crazy but they aren't really the best solution.

Depending on your budget it may just be easier and cheaper to do a 3SGTE swap and call it.

METDeath
10-10-2013, 08:58 PM
FWIW most people seeking power out of a 5S do one of the following:

mild: intake and exhaust upgrades (that's it)

medium: 3S-GTE swap (FWD) or simple 5S-FTE (stock head, internals, 3S-GTE exhaust manifold/turbo with a piggy back

wild: swap in either a built 3S-GTE, a variety of V6 FWD motors or do a 5S/3S-GTE hybrid build

BabyBear
10-10-2013, 09:11 PM
FWIW most people seeking power out of a 5S do one of the following:

mild: intake and exhaust upgrades (that's it)

medium: 5S-FTE/GTE builds using a combination of parts including a piggyback or stand alone (rare, only a few people do this)

wild: swap in either a 3S-GTE or a variety of V6 FWD motors and build on those

5SGTE build is definitely a wild variant :P

3SGTE swap would definitely be the most straight forward into a GTS though.

METDeath
10-11-2013, 01:39 AM
5SGTE build is definitely a wild variant :P

3SGTE swap would definitely be the most straight forward into a GTS though.

Updated list... you raised a valid point. I didn't think much of a 5S-FTE/GTE build because I researched it to death... and may or may not have most of the parts laying around

Hiko
10-11-2013, 04:44 AM
Ok, so the first question is are you going to stay N/A or go turbo later? My following answers/suggestions are based on you staying N/A


1. I want to have the 3sgte valves, springs, and valve guids put on the 5s head I know it can be done with 3s or 2jz parts. Has anyone atempted this?

You have the engine right, 1g 5sfe needs 3sgte valves. I haven't done this myself...quite...but I can say that the valve stem lengths are different between the two, with the 5sfe being the longer. You'll need to find a way to take up the difference, and shimming would be a lot.

Past that, I remember someone saying years ago that the 1g 5sfe springs are the same rate as the 1g 3sge, meaning unless you are wanting the springs for revving over 7k rpm, you'll probably be fine leaving the springs 5sfe. Having a set of both around, I've done the highly scientific test of squishing them both with my fingers and they do seem damn similar.


2. Where can I get my head and intake manifold ported and polished.

:dunno: Local'll probably be your best bet. It's cliche to say at this point, but skip the mirror polish, only hurts flow.


3. I will be using 5s forged internals and was told by real street performance that there pistons are mad to take 1mm oversized valves. So is there anything else I need for head rebuild other than the 3s valves, springs, guids. will i need 3s top end gaskit kit or will the 5s kit that i just bought work fine?

Ok, here is where the turbo vs na question comes in. If you're gonna go turbo, forged internals are gonna be nice. But if you're sticking to N/A, you're not *realistically* going to be making enough power to need them. Stock 3sgte conn rods'll probably do you just fine for atmospheric pressure (and I'd wager a damn sight past that), and you can pick up a set pretty cheap from the alltrac/mr2 guys who have 'em just laying around.


4. What size and kind of injectors should I go with.

I am completely useless on this question. Sorry.


5. For computer should i just have it flashed at a dyno shop or is there a tuner you can buy for the stock computer?

There's no flashing for us 5sfe guys (or Toyota guys in general AFAIK). Unless you want to go full standalone with a (probably highly) modified AEM 3sgte unit, or a megasquirt setup, you'll be back at piggybacks such as the greddy emanage or the apexi safc2/neo (,powerfc?). What you're going to go with is dependent on turbo/non and end power goals.


6. Is there any racing radiator that I can buy or will a new OEM radiator do just fine?

I don't recall ever hearing about a highly modified alltrac owner that swapped out a radiator out of strict necessity, but I haven't looked either. If you get to the point of needing one, though, you'll be in far enough that a "I can make it fit" option will be easily used over "direct fit".

Finally, I see no mention of cams. You want cams :)

BabyBear
10-11-2013, 04:51 AM
Ok, so the first question is are you going to stay N/A or go turbo later? My following answers/suggestions are based on you staying N/A


He mentions getting a turbo kit in the first post :P

Hiko
10-11-2013, 06:54 AM
He mentions getting a turbo kit in the first post :P

:11doh:

underscore
10-11-2013, 06:59 AM
OEM rad will do fine but it'll have plastic end tanks which most people prefer to avoid, and it might be more expensive. AutoPWR, Mishimoto and Koyo all make all aluminum aftermarket rads for the 5g Celica.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-12-2013, 07:06 PM
Ive already bought a few parts. not going to try and sell them ill just go through with it.

and for power output say 300 to 350 hp.
and with turbo going to have to run premium feul any ways.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-12-2013, 07:11 PM
ah yes i have looked into doing the 3s head but said need the computer oil pump water pump.
I just bought brand new oil and water pump so shouldnt have a problem with them. i found a few 3s heads on ebay but then got to track down intake manifold n everythign else.
if its cheap ill just have machine shop fit in 3s valves and springs. will have 5s cams sent out for regrind and bigger lobes welded on.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-12-2013, 07:15 PM
Yea. I have deffinatly considerd the swaps. but I find the fun of learning how stuff works and put together so i opted for 5s trubo rebuild. have had the car for 2 years now.
I have been told aftermarket cams is one of the biggest upgrades you can do. Colt cams and webcams are 2 sites ive found for that.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-12-2013, 07:18 PM
Thanks ill deffinatly look into it. first thing first get the motor out of car and into shop.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-12-2013, 07:28 PM
As for head work BC, supretech, internals can be had for fairly cheap being 3s or 2jz parts

pintoBC_3sgte
10-12-2013, 09:44 PM
I started to over heat with my stock rad. When in boost for any amount of time.
Switched to Asi/autopwr and stay nice and cool.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-13-2013, 03:52 PM
autopwr has the one for the GT4 will it bolt right up to my GTS?

pintoBC_3sgte
10-13-2013, 04:03 PM
Yup

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-25-2013, 12:50 AM
You can get 3sgte shims and valves. and with stock right now. I believe i can only really rev up to 4 or 5 grand. I will also be doing cam work to help with power goals.

I read that I will need a 3 angle valve job so the 3s valves will seat correctly.

I dont know why people are obsessed with doing the 3sgte rods. Many people dont know this but the 5s engine can create just as much power as the 3s with less boost being used.
THeres an MR2 fourm out there to where a guy switched out the 3s crank for a 5s crank machine down the rod journals to fit the 3s rods n pistons. since the 5s is a 2.2L it will spool the turbo faster than the 3s being a 2.0.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
10-25-2013, 12:55 AM
5sGTE is not really worth it unless u have a shit load of money for finding all the 3sgte parts.
but Like I said I just want to do the 3sgte valves and springs. U can get a 2jz cam gear machined down to fit onto the 5s head.
And with Cam regrind and welding bigger lobes will make for more power. Coltcams will do the work for 225.

BabyBear
10-25-2013, 05:53 AM
People do the 3SGTE rods to be able to rev, where as the 5SFE rods have issues taking higher revs. I think MrTurrari was telling me it was due to the bolts that bolt the rod to the crank, they stretch too far under high revs and cause all kinds of crap. When people use the 5S block/crank/anything with it its all on a 5SGTE build, which still uses the 3S head, and is only on crazy horsepower builds. The 5S head is why most people don't like the engine for the most part, it doesn't like to rev very high without lots of work, and its far cheaper to achieve power levels than it is to do it with a 5SFE. There also isn't near the aftermarket support for the 5S so for most things, if you are going with the 5SFE engine for high horsepower, you'll have to do custom work that requires quite a bit of coin, and a LOT of research to get right.

Luni
10-25-2013, 06:01 AM
There really just isnt any way youre making more power reliably with a 5SFE than a 3SGTE. I dont know why everyone advocates this whole rip engine apart, rebuild everything approach.

For 90 percent of the pipe dreamers out there, the 3S swap even a 2nd gen is plenty power to start with. Most of the 3S swappers out there havent even gone beyond what a stock 2nd gen can do. Stop overthinking crap and just pick a plan and go through with it.

underscore
10-25-2013, 07:27 AM
F = economy head, G = performance head (designed by Yamaha). That right there should make it pretty obvious what to go with.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
11-14-2013, 08:43 AM
Alright people ive said it once and im going to say it again this is a project car ive been working on it for about 2 years. Just having fun with what ive got. my daily driver is a 2013 mazda speed 3 with plenty of horse power so what ever kind of horsepower i can get out of my 5sfe with a turbo set up is fine by me. Just taking it one day at a time. still working on taking engine out and engine shop is charging me 150 bucks for cleaning up the block and flow test on the head.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
12-12-2013, 02:43 AM
So folks I broke down and bought the godspeed turbo manifold and down pipe. looks like this is going to be a 5sfte project.
I just pulled the head today. will be taking it to machine shop in a couple weeks for port and polish work. rebuild head and ill be ordering 3sgte valves and springs. cant wait.

Aslo has anyone droped the motor with out having to drop the trans axles and transmission? videos ive seen online and in the childons book says you have to do all of that stuff. I have mostly everything undone for when I do drop the motor n trans. ill be getting new clutch and flywheel anyways.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
01-01-2014, 06:16 AM
lets call it 350-400 horse power. I found a engine shop thats going to install the valves and springs for me ill be getting brian crower stuff.

how much horse power can the stock trans axles handle? I dont want them to snap. I think i read somewere someone using Rav4 or camry axles. any input on this?

Also im having a problem removing the lock nut off the hub to get the axle out. anyone else have this problem? the bolt is rusted all to hell i put some penatrating oil on it and will try again tomorrow. I even had my buddy step on the brake to keep the rotor from spinning.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-17-2014, 04:17 PM
Update to the project.
New Sick speed 70mm throttle boddy was bought. intake wil be ported to match.
Mild Cam regrind Done by colt cams.

Next on the list of parts is FOrged pistons and rods.
Any opinions on what rods to go with. Machine shop is going to order Weisco pistons but need to know what kind of boost I want to run. I told them round about 30 pounds.

ANd opinions on what kind of T3T4 turbo to go with. Ill be ordering the adapter flange for turobto fit. Ive seen pretty cheap god speed turbos rated for high HP and turbonetics.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-17-2014, 04:18 PM
Also wondering if there any aftermarket feul rails, and injectors to use?

BabyBear
04-17-2014, 04:42 PM
Next on the list of parts is FOrged pistons and rods.
Any opinions on what rods to go with. Machine shop is going to order Weisco pistons but need to know what kind of boost I want to run. I told them round about 30 pounds.

ANd opinions on what kind of T3T4 turbo to go with. Ill be ordering the adapter flange for turobto fit. Ive seen pretty cheap god speed turbos rated for high HP and turbonetics.

30 psi is probably a lot higher than you'll ever run realistically. If that's your goal you're gonna be dropping a LOT of coin to get it to handle that kind of boost, specially if you are adamant on sticking with the 5S.


lets call it 350-400 horse power. I found a engine shop thats going to install the valves and springs for me ill be getting brian crower stuff.

how much horse power can the stock trans axles handle? I dont want them to snap. I think i read somewere someone using Rav4 or camry axles. any input on this?


The transmission that came in your Celica doesn't hold up to power well at all. If you plan on running more than low boost, or even try launching it on low boost, you're likely to grenade your transmission. You'll wanna find an E153(3S swap would include this) and throw that in.

Luni
04-17-2014, 07:54 PM
Youre gonna run 30 PSI on a T3/T4?

Youre gonna have them build your engine for 30 psi?

Dude, I hate to shit on your thead, but youre being kind of an asshat about this whole thing. You want opinions on this but you wont take opinions on that. Why would you trust opinions on transmission? You chose a pretty shitty turbo to build around, building for 30psi is retarded, where are you going to drive this thing? The track? Non stop? Cause if you build your engine for 30 psi, its gonna chew through oil unless youre AT 30 psi and beating the shit out of it.

Ask them why the PSI matters. See what they tell you.

And yeah, your transmission cant handle your build. You definitely need to go E153 with a good LSD and some upgraded axles.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-18-2014, 08:19 PM
So how much boost is realistic? Too late now on doing a 3sgte swap the motor is already in th eengine shop having work done to it. Possible to use the 3s transmission?

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-18-2014, 08:22 PM
This build is going to look like It wont be done till next year. Im deploying in july. If I can have the motor built illl just get back in the car and garage it untill I can get new transmission and axles.
So what is a realistic amount of boost to go with on a fully built 5sfe engine?

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-18-2014, 08:25 PM
Will look into getting a stage 2 clutch and light weight fly wheel.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-18-2014, 08:27 PM
Ill probably shoot for 20 pounds of boost. I have a mazda speed 3 stock it uses about 15.

Luni
04-18-2014, 09:32 PM
Usually when you build for boost, they are seating tolerances, which change with heat expansion etc. The more boost you set for, the looser it has to be and the more oil youll go for.

So, usually when you build for boost, you dont want to build for what you MIGHT run on race gas or something, you want something realistic and daily, so your engine has good tolerances and doesnt drink oil and smoke etc. As for tranny, yeah you want to use the MR2 trans, or modify an alltrac trans for FWD. Also, go for a better turbo, like a GT3071 or something like that.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-26-2014, 07:18 PM
OK. will keep that in a list of things to get.

muscle_bound89@Live.com
04-26-2014, 07:21 PM
Got a call back from machine shop and they said the cylinders are already 40 thouandths over. There telling me they will need to bore them out to 60 thousanths and Topendperformance.com said they can get me custom JE pistons made for what I need. My question is would that be running the cylinder walls too thin? Should I junk this block and find a short block with just pistons rods and crank?

muscle_bound89@Live.com
12-26-2014, 09:12 AM
So it looks like im doing a 5sgte set up now. just orderd a 2nd gen 3sgte cylinder head. i bought 1mm oversized valves and there too big for the sock 5s head so new valve seats would of had to be installed.

if anybody is interested in buying my colt cams from me i believe they are a 272 grind.