PDA

View Full Version : AC Compressor stop working, how to engage ac acompressor No cold air coming out,



90GTS
08-04-2013, 08:06 PM
Hi. 90 gts started to blow out warm air. I charged it with refrigerant. It started giving out cold air as I was charging it. When I finished the can, i turned off the engine. When I started the car and turn on AC, I heard a squeak and the next thing I know the AC wasn't blowing out cold air anymore.
I heard you can engage the ac compressor but don't know how to do it. Any can guide me how to engage the sc compressor? Photo would be nice and appreciated. thanks in advance.

jdm_celica_gts
08-04-2013, 09:12 PM
The two wires on your ac compressor, you should be able to jump those two wires to start the compressor.

MrWOT
08-04-2013, 11:32 PM
What did the pressure on the low side read when you charged it?

93celicaconv
08-05-2013, 03:19 AM
Could be a massive leak - the recharging temporarily provided sufficient pressure for the pressure switch to switch over to allow the A/C compressor clutch to engage - but once the refrigerant leaked out and the pressure dropped, the pressure switch opened again and the A/C compressor clutch cannot engage again.

You need to check refrigerant pressure to see if you have sufficient pressure (and refrigerant) in the system to allow the A/C clutch to engage. Let us know what the refrigerant pressure value is just sitting, no engine on or anything.

The Captain
08-05-2013, 12:25 PM
Sounds like a huge leak. There is a pressure switch (two wire) on one of the A/C lines near the firewall. If you jumper them it fools the system into thinking you have full refrigerant. Shouldn't bypass it long, it's only for troubleshooting.

90GTS
08-06-2013, 12:56 AM
The pressure is a little less than 10 PSI with engine off. I attached pic not sure which wire is for the compressor. I also need to know how to jumpstart it and what tools do I need. I have no clue how to do it. Thanks in advance.


http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/shaggyspoof/celica/20130805_192120.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/shaggyspoof/media/celica/20130805_192120.jpg.html)

93celicaconv
08-06-2013, 01:26 AM
10 psig standing pressure for an R-12 system (yours was originally an R-12 system, I don't know if it was converted over to R-134a or not, you did not say) would be normal if the ambient temperature the car was sitting in is about 2 deg. F. I'm assuming your ambient air temperature in New York is closer to 80 deg F., and at that ambient temperature, your R-12 system should be at 84 psig standing pressure (not turned on). Your pressure value is telling me you no longer have an R-12 charge.

Also, on your R-12 system, the low pressure switch opens (prevents A/C compressor clutch from engaging) if the low side pressure drops below 30 psig. Since you are reading less than 10 psig, your low-side pressure switch is open, preventing your A/C clutch engagement. No real value in trying to short-circuit it, given your refrigerant pressure reading.

PS: The dual pressure switch you were considering messing with is just right of the viewable area of the picture you posted. There are 2 refrigerant lines that go in to the firewall just to the right of your picture. The larger tube, on the vertical rise, has the pressure switch. BUT, given when you put some refrigerant in and your compressor operated for a short period of time tells me your control system, including the pressure switch, is working normally. With less than 10 psig of refrigerant pressure in your system now, your A/C compressor should not operate, which is what you are saying is the condition now. So I would not mess with that dual pressure switch.

alltracman78
08-06-2013, 09:43 PM
Sounds like a huge leak. There is a pressure switch (two wire) on one of the A/C lines near the firewall. If you jumper them it fools the system into thinking you have full refrigerant. Shouldn't bypass it long, it's only for troubleshooting.

The pressure switch is actually a 4 wire switch.
2 Wires are for the AC and 2 are for the radiator fan.
Right up by the firewall, the switch threads into the AC line.
The line you have pictured is the Pwr steering line.

cms-gt4
08-07-2013, 06:37 PM
Is there a junction plug near that is related to the pressure switch? That thing is hard to get to. I think I found one for the fan control, but not the compressor.

The Captain
08-08-2013, 04:12 PM
Oh yeah, that's right. It is four wires. My bad.

90GTS
08-11-2013, 07:47 PM
Is the compressor switch located by the compressor? How do I jumpstart it. I think this was converted to 134a. I looked at the maintenance record that my brother gave me. Toyota changed the O-rings and expansion valve and stated Freon 12 (7/98). I'm assuming Freon 12 is an error. The Low side port blue cap is 134a.

Low port pic below.
http://i81.photobucket.com/albums/j209/shaggyspoof/celica/LowSidepic3.jpg (http://s81.photobucket.com/user/shaggyspoof/media/celica/LowSidepic3.jpg.html)

93celicaconv
08-11-2013, 10:44 PM
90GTS, help me with a question: Why are you looking to hotwire your A/C compressor?

You've already determined your A/C compressor runs after to put refrigerant into your system, and you also determined that when the refrigerant pressure is below 10 psig, your A/C compressor will not turn on. This is proof that your A/C dual pressure switch is operating just fine, and that your system is low on refrigerant. Why do you want to operate your A/C compressor without an adequate refrigerant charge? The dual pressure switch is there to prevent the very thing you are trying to do.

jdm_celica_gts
08-12-2013, 12:56 AM
You have to have the pump running in order to charge the system. I had to jump the wires in order to kick the compressor on in order to add refrigerant.

93celicaconv
08-12-2013, 12:53 PM
You have to have the pump running in order to charge the system. I had to jump the wires in order to kick the compressor on in order to add refrigerant.

This is very, very untrue!

On a low charged system (one that the A/C compressor will turn on at least, the best practice is to run the A/C compressor when adding refrigerant, this is true.

On an empty system, it is nevery adviseable to operate an A/C compressor. On an empty system, you need to draw down the system in vacuum to a very low level and hold it there for 30 minutes or more (to evacuate condensible liquids that easily enter the system, like water). Then, under that vacuum, you begin added refrigerant up to the pressure level that would allow the dual pressure switch to close, then turn the A/C system on and finsih with the refrigerant fill, noting both low & high side pressures.

But it is never, ever adviseable to force operate an A/C compressor on an empty refrigerant system. With no gas in the system, there is no lubricant flow. Sort of like running an engine w/o oil. Won't last very long.

MrWOT
08-12-2013, 02:41 PM
You always inject oil before adding refrigerant on an evac'd system. And a compressor will work just fine for a few minutes without refrigerant in the system. They always hold quite a bit of oil that never comes out when you drain it without removing the compressor.

93celicaconv
08-12-2013, 04:33 PM
You always inject oil before adding refrigerant on an evac'd system. And a compressor will work just fine for a few minutes without refrigerant in the system. They always hold quite a bit of oil that never comes out when you drain it without removing the compressor.

We have our different perspectives, and that is OK - we just may get different results. Realize that an A/C compressor gets lubricated not just because oil is present, but because it is moved through the system by the fluid the A/C compressor is pumping. Without refrigerant, the A/C compressor cannot move any fluid, so no oil can travel to reach the parts requiring lubrication. No A/C shop jumps an A/C compressor to fill an empty system, and there is no automotive air conditioning training that includes this kind of step. I'm sure, if done carefully, your method will be OK, just not sure why one would risk damage to the A/C compressor with this method.

jdm_celica_gts
08-12-2013, 06:30 PM
I wasn't saying to do it if its empty, if your system is just a little low I heard it was ok to do. Mine was low enough that the compressor would not kick on.

And when I did it to mine I wasn't able to put a vacuum to it.

alltracman78
08-13-2013, 12:59 AM
You half ass cheesy motherfuckers.

If your system is just a little low the compressor will work fine.
If it's so low the compressor won't turn on, fine the leak and fix it, then vacuum/recharge the AC.
If you don't want to pay a shop; buy a vacuum pump and vacuum it out.
And if you don't know how to do it, either fucking pay someone or learn how to do it.

*I owe the OP an apology. It looks like the system uses R134; it has the updated fittings. I didn't see that last night.*

Don't just randomly do stuff without knowing what you're doing. That's the stupid part.
LEARN what you need to do, then do it. That's being smart. :)

If your belt started squeaking and then the AC stopped working the compressor MIGHT be seized up [maybe from corrosion; moisture in the system that wasn't vacuumed out prior?].
So be careful forcing the compressor to work, you may end up pushing chunks of it through the system and ruining a new compressor. Not to mention other parts.
But if the pressure is that low after recharge, you've got a big leak somewhere and need to find that first.
Once you have good pressure try to run the AC again and go from there.
Maybe order an AC book from Amazon or something. So you can understand what's going on. :)

Words of advice; before you make decisions LEARN about the subject. And realize that before you learn, you have no clue what you don't know.
There's are idiots on here that love to give advice but don't really know what they're talking about.
There are also smart people on here that love to give advice and actually know what they're talking about.

The stupid part isn't not knowing; it's not knowing and still making decisions or trying to give advice when you have no clue.

93celicaconv
08-13-2013, 01:29 AM
What reason do you have to think your system has been converted to 134?

In 90GTS's defense, he provided a picture in post #11 of this thread, and the fitting pictured is that for an R-134a system. However, the Toyota maintenance record 90GTS has would have been a typical material list for the 5th Gen Celica recall involving the defective expansion valves in all 5th Gen models. So I don't think a Toyota dealer did the modification 90GTS thinks was done by them. Which always concerns me - an original R-12 A/C system that now has an R-134a low pressure fitting on it, without a conversion label (all R-12 to R-134a conversions required a conversion label to ensure the owner did not make a mistake with recharging), so who knows how this conversion was done, and even if the old oil used in the R-12 system was removed and replaced with the proper oil for an R-134a system. Given that oil from an R-12 system gells when used with R-134a, it is possible this system will be challenging to get working properly. Don't know, but someone in the past looks like they were trying to convert that original R-12 system over to R-134a.

90GTS
08-15-2013, 03:44 AM
Compressor stop running. AC not blowing cold air.... When I charged it, ac started giving cold air. I turned off the engine but later I decided to start the car and turn on the ac just to run it a little longer but I heard a squeak and the ac stop blowing cold air. i don't hear the compressor running.


90GTS, help me with a question: Why are you looking to hotwire your A/C compressor?

You've already determined your A/C compressor runs after to put refrigerant into your system, and you also determined that when the refrigerant pressure is below 10 psig, your A/C compressor will not turn on. This is proof that your A/C dual pressure switch is operating just fine, and that your system is low on refrigerant. Why do you want to operate your A/C compressor without an adequate refrigerant charge? The dual pressure switch is there to prevent the very thing you are trying to do.

90GTS
08-15-2013, 03:47 AM
how did you jump the wires and where is it located?


You have to have the pump running in order to charge the system. I had to jump the wires in order to kick the compressor on in order to add refrigerant.

93celicaconv
08-15-2013, 01:18 PM
Compressor stop running. AC not blowing cold air.... When I charged it, ac started giving cold air. I turned off the engine but later I decided to start the car and turn on the ac just to run it a little longer but I heard a squeak and the ac stop blowing cold air. i don't hear the compressor running.

90GTS, in your post #6 in this thread, you said you measured the static (not running) refrigerant pressure in your system after this last time that your A/C compressor stopped working, and it was under 10 psig. Given that low of pressure reading, your A/C compressor is designed to not operate, because your dual pressure switch is protecting it due to a very, very low refrigerant change. Your system is doing what it is supposed to do. You may have recharged your system with refrigerant, but that charge is no longer in your system - it leaked out. What you really need to do is to find the source of your refrigerant leak, repair it, then recharge you system (probably add a little oil for your R-134a refrigerant also, given this leak sounds significant and you may have lost a lot of your oil too). You can do this with a refrigerant sniffer or by charging your system with a refrigerant that includes a dye, and as that refrigerant leaks out, it will take some of the dye with it, and with a black light at night, you will see the glowing dye from the source of your leak.

From all you said, your A/C compressor turns on & off properly, but you loose your refrigerant charge quickly after to charge it, indicating a massive leak.

cms-gt4
08-16-2013, 10:17 PM
Since we are on the topic of compressors and retrofitting, does any of you know which o-rings need to be replaced on the compressor? There is not a lot of info online and I can only assume the three under the manifold based on what little I have deciphered from online documentation.

MrWOT
08-17-2013, 06:10 PM
Since we are on the topic of compressors and retrofitting, does any of you know which o-rings need to be replaced on the compressor? There is not a lot of info online and I can only assume the three under the manifold based on what little I have deciphered from online documentation.

Correct. The ones under the manifold, the ones on each hose connector, and the valve cores.

Anyone retrofitting would also do well to replace the expansion valve while you've got it exposed.

90GTS
08-18-2013, 05:20 PM
So If I start the car and put leak detector or oil or 134a refrigerant and turn on ac it will suck the contents from the can? If I need oil how much do I put in? I will buy a leak detector but what kind of light do I need?

93celicaconv
08-22-2013, 03:41 AM
So If I start the car and put leak detector or oil or 134a refrigerant and turn on ac it will suck the contents from the can? If I need oil how much do I put in? I will buy a leak detector but what kind of light do I need?

No, your A/C system will not "suck" the contents in. You don't have enough refrigerant to create pressure to cause the A/C compressor to turn on. And you don't have vacuum anywhere, as your A/C system will not operate unless there is a minimum of pressure of 30 psig in the system. Stated this before, right? Read previous feedback.

The refrigerant in containers is under pressure - at ambient temperature, the pressure in a refrigerant can is well over 100 psig. Usually dye or oil is also in a can in the presence of refrigerant, so it is under pressure too. Once you have established a minimum of 30 psig in your vehicles system, your A/C compressor is turned on to keep the low pressure side at a lower pressure than the contents of the can you are emptying. That is why you run the A/C compessor when the system already has refrigerant in it; so the can pressure is higher than the low pressure side so the can pushes the contents into your system.

If you have a major leak, you can' t just fill the system. You likely will have had moisture ladden air drawn into the system. You must get that out with a vacuum system that draws a vacuum on your refrigerant system down to a few microns. If you don't, your system will have a non-condensible gas in it that will not only cause poor performance, but will corrode your system from the inside out.

Based on the repeated questions you keep asking, you really should take your car to a service center or mechanic to have them get your system back to working order. I don't believe you are absorbing what is being told to you to handle this kind of repair properly. Just a suggestion.