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grimmythereaper
07-31-2013, 06:11 PM
so i thought the old 5sfe was knocking on start up turns out it was a combo of ad sway bar bushinging and and missing bolts that bolt up the sway ar to the body, while i was under the car i noticed the oil pan was leaking. My question is can i use the trans axel FIPG ( part # 00295-01281) as an oil pan gasket?

CollapsedNut
07-31-2013, 06:22 PM
I use the high temp orange gasket maker.

Funkycheeze
07-31-2013, 10:40 PM
Use black FIPG. Don't cheap out or cut corners. Believe me.

Luni
07-31-2013, 10:43 PM
I suppose you COULD use the tranny FIPG. I dont see why not. The Tranny FIPG has extra additives to keep it in tact under higher temps actually. It should be fine. Both are designed to seal.

93celicaconv
08-01-2013, 12:54 PM
The engine block and oil operate in a higher temperature range than the transmission and oil. And the engine block in cast iron, while the transmission is aluminum. I think these are the fundamental reasons Toyota doesn't used the same FIPG material. I would use the recommended 00295-00103 FIPG Seal Packing 103 product on that oil pan.

So you are thinking a sway bar bushing and missing bolts account for the sound of a knock when you engine first starts? Does this knock sound only happen on cold starts, and only last 1-2 seconds? If the answers to this last question are all yes, then I believe you have what so many (including me) have with 5S-FE engines. And it is not sway bar related.

Luni
08-02-2013, 12:56 AM
Hmm. Ill have to see which one is hotter after a drive. I was always under the impression that the guts of a transmission see ALOT of heat, given they dont have any active cooling system (ours dont) and there is a lot of friction going on in there.

Ive made oil pans out of all sorts of different shit. If I had to PAY full price for something, Id buy some "Right Stuff" over FIPG. I just have a shitton of FIPG I got for a cheap price. Toyota is very proud of their FIPG though. It is expensive shit.

grimmythereaper
08-02-2013, 04:50 AM
So you are thinking a sway bar bushing and missing bolts account for the sound of a knock when you engine first starts? Does this knock sound only happen on cold starts, and only last 1-2 seconds? If the answers to this last question are all yes, then I believe you have what so many (including me) have with 5S-FE engines. And it is not sway bar related.

the knock happend/s on a warm start, after driving to work in the mornings ( i stop at the corner store in the mornings and get a few bottles of water and some energy drinks for the day) the knocked hasnt happened since i changed the buhings and fixed the bolts, what causes the 5sfe to knock on cold starts? is one of those comes with age kidda problems?


Toyota is very proud of their FIPG though. It is expensive shit.

this is true the FIPG for the transmission was something around 35 bucks, is there a differance between the toyota FIPG and the auto parts store FIPG? i would hate to pay more for the same product when i can get it cheaper else where.

Funkycheeze
08-02-2013, 08:35 PM
I think last time I paid like $15 for a tube of the black FIPG. Based on the fact I have sealed up a LOT of engines with it, and had no leaks, that is a good deal in my book.

Luni
08-02-2013, 09:25 PM
Its better than Permatex shit. But the 900awhp all track owner I know locally swears by Right Stuff so pick your poison.

andy
08-02-2013, 09:30 PM
Toyota fipg all the way. Engine and Tranny oil temps operate at a similar temp. Either sealant would work fine. I think the difference was mentioned above with the construction materials between the two causing the need for two different sealants. (Personally I think Toyota didn't want black sealant hanging out of the aluminum trans and made a sealant that was more the color of the trans, lol)

grimmythereaper
08-05-2013, 04:18 PM
got some oil pan FIPG from toyota yesterday to be on the safe side, i really dont wanna do this twice, lol

bloodMoney
08-05-2013, 10:02 PM
Does this knock sound only happen on cold starts, and only last 1-2 seconds? If the answers to this last question are all yes, then I believe you have what so many (including me) have with 5S-FE engines. And it is not sway bar related.

Stacy's 3s is starting to do that. We were going to make the switch to Rotalla to see if it helps.

My 5s did it every startup (hot or cold, didn't matter) for a couple of weeks before the motor let go (rod bearing). If the Rotella doesn't help, I may be pulling the pan to replace them.

Luni
08-05-2013, 10:58 PM
How long does it last Chris? Cause if it lasts a few minutes, Ill bet its a warped exhaust manifold and not internals. If it only lasts a few seconds, youre getting wristpin slappy slap

93celicaconv
08-06-2013, 12:11 AM
What I had, which lasted for 1-2 seconds on cold starts only, happened for as long as the engine oil pressure warning lamp was on after startup, and as long as my oil pressure gauge was reading zero. My fix was going to be 3-fold, but I only did 2 of them. On my 93 5S-FE, I put on a 99+ 5S-FE oil pump (has ~28% more volume output per pump rev due to the increased thickness of the pump gears) and shimmed the pressure relief by 1 (may 2) washers to increase the output pressure before the pump starts the bypass relief. I also removed all bearings, got oil clearnaces on all bearings, got the bearing marks (thicknesses) - they were all original but the engine only had 71,000 miles on it, got all new bearings of the same marks and each mark thicker, then worked on putting in the new bearings to get the oil clearance on the tight end of the range. I was also going to put an oil filter relocation kit on it, where the oil filter would be even with the oil pan and the oil filter gasket to be vertical (to prevent oil drainback to the pan). I couldn't find a great spot to relocate the oil fitler with the kit I got, so I abandoned that idea. All the bearings I didn't use, the Toyota dealer took back with no charge. The result is no rattling on cold start anymore, and with 5W-30 synthetic oil, the oil pressure warning light goes off almost immediately after startup and the oil pressure gauge starts moving at the same time the oil pressure warning light goes off. Part of my issue is the previous owner must have used dino oil and didn't change it often at all, and with a stuck-open thremostat, the sludge developed quickly in the engine. And, the oil filters today, even from Toyota (they admit it) are no longer built as well as they were in the early 90's to be mounted the way they are on the 3S and 5S engines, so oil drainback is more of a problem today than before. I found using a Toyota filter provided quicker cold start pressure build than a few others I tried. And, my cold and hot oil pressures are much higher now. I hope this engine will continue to work well in the future.

But, this is my cold start rattle story and solution. It worked for me.

bloodMoney
08-06-2013, 07:11 PM
Like 93celicaconv, it's just a few seconds until the oil pressure comes up. We've only used Toyota or wix since we got the motor. Here's a video. Listen at the 3 second mark.

http://youtu.be/h7CoXHMFLAg

alltracman78
08-06-2013, 08:23 PM
More important than which sealant you use [as long as it's not harbor freight crap or something] is cleaning both surfaces VERY VERY well.
And cleaning above the sealing surface on the inside rear of the block right before you install, so oil won't run down onto the sealing surface.

The main advantage to toyota FIPG is it dries fast. And the factory sealant is gray on the engine, not black.

93celicaconv
08-06-2013, 09:12 PM
The main advantage to toyota FIPG is it dries fast. And the factory sealant is gray on the engine, not black.

Hmm. The Toyota FIPG Part No. I got from the dealer, for the oil pan gasket material, was black, when I got it and used it on my Celica's. Did Toyota change the color of this specific product?

alltracman78
08-06-2013, 09:40 PM
The sealant they use at the factory, not the stuff they sell through the dealer.
The dealer stuff is black [for the engine].

Funkycheeze
08-06-2013, 09:47 PM
Not sure. I have noticed some cars have a grey sealant on the pans, but I still use black during rebuilds with no issues.

alltracman78
08-06-2013, 10:07 PM
Toyota uses gray sealant on their engines in the factory.
They supply black sealant to the dealer to do warranty repairs, regular repairs and to sell to customers.
They only supply black sealant outside of the factory. AFAIK gray isn't available anywhere.
There's nothing wrong with the black sealant, I was simply making the point that they didn't use the red to be closer in color to the transmission casing.
I don't think the difference is just the color; it would be cheaper to make it all the same color if it was the exact same thing.
Plus the consistency is slightly different [black vs orange].

celica9303
08-07-2013, 04:14 AM
Hmmm good to know.