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matthew rankin
06-30-2013, 03:47 AM
has anybody ever done a 1zz or a 2zz engine swap in a 5th gen st? would it be worth the money to do it or do the 4agze?

Nitro_Alltrac
06-30-2013, 04:36 AM
I haven't heard of anyone doing a ZZ swap into a 5th gen. The 1ZZ doesn't make any more power than a 5S and the 2ZZ would require A LOT of fabrication and wiring, not to mention transmission swap issues as well. You can get the same and better power with less work doing a 3sgte swap. For the ST, from what I understand, the 4a would be an easier swap. It will still require a good bit of work but it is easier. There have been some 4a swaps done by members here, not sure about the agze though. Use the SEARCH feature and you should be able to find some threads with good info in there.

METDeath
06-30-2013, 04:58 AM
1ZZ there is not point in putting in, a 2ZZ would be interesting, not a lot of fabrication is likely to be needed Mk1 MR2 guys have swapped in the 2ZZ and it's apparently bolt in with the 4A-GE that they got.
More common swap for the ST is a 4A-GE 20 valve motor, or doing a built 7A-GTE (7A-FE block, 4A-GE/GZE head with turbo).

Check the NA and Forced Induction forums for more information on motor swaps. Most common and thus "easiest" is a 4A-GE 20v motor though.

matthew rankin
06-30-2013, 08:10 PM
doesn't a 1zz have around 130hp? when my 4afe has only around 105hp I think.

Nitro_Alltrac
06-30-2013, 10:49 PM
It wouldn't really be worth the work for 25 HP. You'd be ahead to check the swaps Marshall was talking about.

METDeath
07-01-2013, 09:40 AM
1ZZ-FE has between 120-140 bhp with 122-125 ft/lbs of torque, your 4A-FE has around 113 bhp and 101 ft/lbs of torque. So all the headache of swapping a motor for maybe 27 hp and 24 ft/lbs? Bad idea.
The 4A-GE 20v "Silver top" makes 158 hp and 119 ft/lbs, not a large torque upgrade, but he HP gains are up there, and intake/exhaust/headers will open the motor up.

However, before you swap, make sure your car is ready for it. Upgrade the suspension, the brakes, you may find that those alone make the car plenty fun to drive and will leave you with less worry about "Oh no, this JDM part is hard to find I have to wait a month to get it" after all, we can't all over night parts from Japan.

Murgatroy
07-01-2013, 07:37 PM
The 2ZZ has been done in the MK1 MR2. My understanding is that it is one bolt different to drop in. You just widen in. You then have to wire it up, which comes with an swap.

To the best of my knowledge there isn't anyone that has completed the swap in a Celica.

matthew rankin
07-02-2013, 07:59 PM
ok, I really don't wanna swap in a 4age. has anyone built a naturally aspirated 4afe?

Murgatroy
07-02-2013, 08:25 PM
Define 'built'?

Most folks swap out of the 4AFE. It sips gas, but unless you find a freak, they aren't that much fun. Even if you find a freak they aren't that much fun. You are talking about a 100HP engine. You really won't get much more than that.

A little head work, bumping up the timing, a header, an open intake, you might make 100WHP. That is a fair bit of work for a 10% increase in power, which is about all you will get.

As far as I know I am the only person that has ever touted the fun of the 4AFE. Chaos' had a freak 4AFE in the past. I am convinced the only real thing with it was a bump in compression. She still got 30+ MPG but was slower than nearly anything out there.

Celicas can handle, the 4AFE is light and gets good mileage.

If you want power you will either have to swap or boost. No way around it. The 4AFE nor the 5SFE are going to give you power. A full built 5SFE is still only a 150HP engine.

matthew rankin
07-03-2013, 01:31 AM
I just want to make it strong enough to not get beat by neons and cavaliers. its pretty embarrassing lol

Murgatroy
07-03-2013, 02:28 AM
Sell it and buy something else.

If your goal is to make it faster than a Neon/Cavalier/Civic/Integra/Mustang/Camaro... you will never get there without a motor swap and a turbo.

If you want a fun to drive car that puts a smile on your face, stick with the Celica. But understand that it will not be a fast car without a lot of time and effort. You can make a car that can handle. You can make a car that can maintain speed, but without an engine swap or a turbo, you will not get fast without a long stretch of road to get there.




I am not trying to be a downer, but I am telling you from the wallet of a guy who has made his Celica handle like it is on rails, with less than 100HP, and then hang with much higher HP cars. As long as I have a corner to catch up in. The second we hit a straight, I am done for.

The cheapest and easiest way to go fast is to buy another car.

grimmythereaper
07-03-2013, 02:48 AM
murg is rite, even after making my ST light weight i was still ony able to beat v6 cameros (body stlye b4 the bumblebee) by only a bumper lenth and i would say it was bc of my ST being a 5 speed, how ever i was saving for a silvertop 4age swap after seeing what it could do in a mr2 mk1, that 8k redline helps, the longer the redline the more it helps with lack of HP ( 300 hp dont mean shit if u redline at 2k rpms)

matthew rankin
07-03-2013, 03:39 AM
well right now im putting kyb gr2 struts all around and 1.5 inch drop. then sooner or later im gonna get an aftermarket exhaust and air filter and maybe some 17 inch wheels then save up for either a 7th gen celica gts or a new camry v6

johnL
07-05-2013, 03:51 AM
Define 'built'?

Most folks swap out of the 4AFE. It sips gas, but unless you find a freak, they aren't that much fun. Even if you find a freak they aren't that much fun. You are talking about a 100HP engine. You really won't get much more than that.

A little head work, bumping up the timing, a header, an open intake, you might make 100WHP. That is a fair bit of work for a 10% increase in power, which is about all you will get.

As far as I know I am the only person that has ever touted the fun of the 4AFE. Chaos' had a freak 4AFE in the past. I am convinced the only real thing with it was a bump in compression. She still got 30+ MPG but was slower than nearly anything out there.

Celicas can handle, the 4AFE is light and gets good mileage.

If you want power you will either have to swap or boost. No way around it. The 4AFE nor the 5SFE are going to give you power. A full built 5SFE is still only a 150HP engine.

Oh my good buddy... I have come to my senses so many years later that I wonder if a 5SFE could really make 150hp NA. Do I dare say the dream is over?

Murgatroy
07-05-2013, 05:02 AM
Oh my good buddy... I have come to my senses so many years later that I wonder if a 5SFE could really make 150hp NA. Do I dare say the dream is over?

I thought you guys got to 150HP with your 5SFE, that is the exact one I was referring to. You, Bruce and MrTurrari are the only three folks I have ever known to even try an NA build.

matthew rankin
07-07-2013, 04:51 AM
ok, well it turns out either I have a bad head gasket or cracked head or block. if its head ill just get it fixed but if its a block im NOT going to put a 4afe back in which 4age is the best for the swap?

Murgatroy
07-07-2013, 04:56 AM
Silvertop is cheaper, Blacktop is better.

matthew rankin
07-07-2013, 05:46 AM
oh ok, whats the difference?

jaydog82
07-07-2013, 06:01 AM
Be careful of local laws regarding engine swaps.

Sent from my Nexus 4

Murgatroy
07-08-2013, 02:15 AM
Silvertop is older, runs off a MAF. Makes less HP but has stronger internals.

Blacktop is newer, runs off a MAP. Makes bore power but has lighter internals.

The ideal solution is to run a Silvertop off of Blacktop electronics.

It is not an uncommon swap in Corollas and MKI MR2s.

matthew rankin
07-08-2013, 02:21 AM
what about the red top? is it any good?

Murgatroy
07-08-2013, 08:32 PM
Redtop is older than either. comes in large port or small port. Makes less HP than either. It is in the 130HP area.

matthew rankin
07-08-2013, 10:57 PM
Oh ok. Well my brother has a 1990 geo prizm that has a bad tranny and hesgonna letme haveit for 250 and it only has 130000 miles will it swao into my celica?

Murgatroy
07-08-2013, 11:35 PM
Oh ok. Well my brother has a 1990 geo prizm that has a bad tranny and hesgonna letme haveit for 250 and it only has 130000 miles will it swao into my celica?

Yup.

It should bolt up to your transmission and everything and only need wiring to make it run.

matthew rankin
07-08-2013, 11:49 PM
Ok, im getting the entire engine, ecu and wiring harness is it not pretty much a straight plug in?

Murgatroy
07-09-2013, 02:03 AM
No. It is not a straight plug in.

I don't know what all is needed but there will be some modifications required to your body harness.

matthew rankin
07-09-2013, 02:33 AM
alright thanks!

93celicaconv
07-22-2013, 04:09 PM
You will discover one difference between the Geo Prizm 4A-FE and the Celica 4A-FE. That involves the EGR porting into the head. The Celica head has a port in it for the EGR entry. The Prizm does not. Given you will likely use your Celica intake manifold and associated EGR system, it will not be functional with the Prizm head. FYI.

matthew rankin
07-26-2013, 12:27 AM
ok so I can put my celica head on the prizm block and it will work?

93celicaconv
07-26-2013, 12:27 PM
ok so I can put my celica head on the prizm block and it will work?

The head will work - the EGR system will not. If you are in a state with emissions testing, it will not pass an emissions inspection. Just so you know this part.

matthew rankin
07-29-2013, 04:52 PM
ok, in south Carolina we don't have emissions. so that will be the only difference ill have in the two motors?

93celicaconv
07-29-2013, 05:24 PM
ok, in south Carolina we don't have emissions. so that will be the only difference ill have in the two motors?

As long as you reuse all your original engine's bolt ons (intake manifold, exhaust manifold, A/C compressor & bracket, alternator & bracket, distributor, sensors, etc.), just swap out the block/head, you should be good. I put a Prizm 4A-FE into my son's Celica, and as long as you reuse all bolt-ons, the swapped engine will operate just fine.

matthew rankin
07-30-2013, 07:04 AM
ok, but my a/c compressor don't work in my celica and the one In the prizm does, can I use its a/c compressor or do I have to buy another celica a/c compressor

93celicaconv
07-30-2013, 12:36 PM
ok, but my a/c compressor don't work in my celica and the one In the prizm does, can I use its a/c compressor or do I have to buy another celica a/c compressor

That is a question I didn't have to find an answer for when I swapped my engine out. For me, my A/C compressor worked great, and it was easier for me leaving it connected to the piping when I swapped out engines. So I never checked the Prism engine A/C compressor. I think you can do that though. Just take a real close look at both of them, to make sure the A/C hose/tubing connections are identical, and that your wiring connection is identical. If they are are identical, no problem. If your wiring is not, you could cut the wiring harness and solder what you need to make that work. But if your A/C hose/tubing connections are not the same, that would be a major issue. Then you would be best to get a remanufactured A/C compressor for you Celica and put that in while you swap your engines around.

mar_phi6
08-18-2013, 10:51 PM
in the long your better off buying another celica