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matthew rankin
05-27-2013, 06:22 AM
I have a 1990 celica st. the 4afe is a fun little engine but its just not enough power and had been reading about the 20 valve silvertop swap. I have a 5 speed manual celica and was wondering how hard would it be to do the swap and if I could do it with about an 1500 dollar budget. thanks

fussellbug
05-27-2013, 12:58 PM
To get a decent engine with the full wire harness and ECU will probably run about $1000 by itself. That doesn't leave much money in your budget to finish the install. Even if you do all the installation labor yourself and all of your own wiring, you may find yourself short on cash before finishing.

matthew rankin
05-27-2013, 03:15 PM
ok, do you think it would be easier to supercharge it?

crymson
05-27-2013, 10:06 PM
In the long run you'll probably be happier with the 4A-GE. It will produce more power, and when you inevitably decide you need *more* power, there is aftermarket support for the 4A-GE motors.

matthew rankin
05-27-2013, 10:48 PM
how hard would it be do build the 4afe to around 140-150hp? or would it be easier and cheaper to do the 4age?

Murgatroy
05-28-2013, 02:45 AM
Silvertop is the easier and more reliable way to go. 150HP is a 50% boost. That is a lot.

If you can get the engine/harness and do the work yourself, you will be near you budget, as long as you budget $1000 over.

But, do yourself a favor and do the suspension first. Chaos can run down Silvertop cars, leave 5SFE cars in the dust and try really hard to play with the Alltrac guys.

Suspension.

grimmythereaper
05-28-2013, 02:55 AM
i agree with murg, my old ST had a minor supension mods (minor poly bushing mods,new struts, wider wheel and tire combo,and a bigger rear sway bar) and i was out cornering a lot of stuff that normally eat us alive like miatas,bmw's and bottom end audi's, but my car was also super light (around 2100 pnds?) but a lot of those "victories" could have also been bc of the driver and my complete disregard for my cluth lol.

matthew rankin
05-28-2013, 03:43 AM
alright, I think ill stick with the 4afe and do suspension mods and maybe a few engine mods. how hard is it do run a 7afe or 4age head on a 4afe?

crymson
05-28-2013, 04:03 AM
What Murg said.

I've seen 7A heads put on a 4A-FE somewhere, though they did require a little bit of modification.

If it where me I'd do do coilovers, rear sway bar and strut brace, and better wheels/rubber; also consider brake system upgrades. Once I had all of that setup and tuned the way I liked I'd save my pennies for an engine swap. This was my plan for my 5S-FE equipped GT-S before I got my alltrac, although I was going to go 1MZ-FE, which isn't an option on the ST.

david in germany
05-28-2013, 05:27 AM
Keep it simple, skip the coil overs. I had great success with just doing the springs and strut bar. I tried quite a few brands but the best on the st was H&R springs. With coil overs you have more ways to mess up than just sticking with proper springs (if it is going to be a dedicated track car then go with the coil overs). We have had quite a few threads on this and it always comes down to, "skip the engine mods with an ST and focus on proper maintenance and suspension" the car will last longer and give you lots of fun for years to come.
Bottom line, tune up, fresh mobile 1 oil or German Castrol, Toyota oil filter, NGk plugs, stock Toyota cap and wires, drop in K&N air filter (keep the stock air box) then go for the suspension mods.
DiG

grimmythereaper
05-28-2013, 07:31 AM
alright, I think ill stick with the 4afe and do suspension mods and maybe a few engine mods. how hard is it do run a 7afe or 4age head on a 4afe?

if you u really want to do anything like that i would put the 4afe head on the 7afe block and make a 1.8 liter, i also read somewhere (6gc.net?) that the 4afe head gasket is bigger then a 7afe headgasket by half a mm. im how ever not sure if that would make an interferance motor.

matthew rankin
05-28-2013, 09:00 PM
alright, and whats a good wheel/ tire size to run?

david in germany
05-28-2013, 09:09 PM
I think mine were 205 45 16's

Murgatroy
05-28-2013, 10:58 PM
Chaos sports 215/40/17 till her resurrection.

I won't go smaller than 255 then...

matthew rankin
05-28-2013, 11:30 PM
Alright, thanks alot guys!

matthew rankin
05-29-2013, 01:00 AM
also, do any of yall know where I can order a trunk lid?

crymson
05-29-2013, 02:14 AM
do you mean the rear hatch? I'd go to a salvage yard for one of those. otherwise try lithia, they have a section here.

Murgatroy
05-29-2013, 02:46 AM
Decklid. ST doesn't have a hatch.

Hit up the junk yards, get hinges while you are at it, the hinges are ruined and that is what has dogeared the corners of your trunk.

But be aware that Celica ST owners have been scouring yards for the exact same parts for 25 years.

grimmythereaper
05-29-2013, 04:05 AM
my old ST and current vert rolls 205 55 15s, i had my old ST for about 3 years and never found a trunk lid in good condition at the yards, the gt also had a trunk version as well.

matthew rankin
05-29-2013, 05:20 AM
alright, and what size exhaust do yall run?

david in germany
05-29-2013, 12:35 PM
alright, and what size exhaust do yall run? for the 4a-fe, Stock or a bigger muffler for looks. No real performance gain will be made on the 4a-fe with an exhaust. I actually lost low end power with a header and exhaust on mine.

Murgatroy
05-29-2013, 01:55 PM
2" straight pipe manifold back.

There wasn't any power to be found there. And police officers don't like it. Unless they welded it on.

matthew rankin
05-30-2013, 03:09 AM
so a straight pipe sounds good? or is it going to backfire pretty bad.

mar_phi6
06-04-2013, 05:29 AM
You have any pics of your ride

Murgatroy
06-04-2013, 10:04 AM
so a straight pipe sounds good? or is it going to backfire pretty bad.

Do you like attention? Lots of it?

Do you like impromptu roadside discos? Are you old enough to get pulled over and not mistaken for a street punk?

Can you handle everyone and their mother wanting to race you?

No one ever wanting to ride with you?

Do you like listening to your radio? Ever?




The straight pipe is not for the faint of heart. Think of the loudest most abrasive car you can. Now imagine it louder.

david in germany
06-04-2013, 01:50 PM
Do you like attention? Lots of it?

Do you like impromptu roadside discos?

I like long walks on the beach and nachos and fresh squeezed orange juice but not at the same time. I am also an aries.

matthew rankin
06-04-2013, 06:59 PM
yea, I like loud. I just remember that my brother straight piped his neon and it sounded like crap.

Murgatroy
06-05-2013, 12:23 AM
How legal is loud where you are from?

Loud is illegal where I am.

And no, it doesn't sound good. Unless you are running a massive cam in a V8 straight pipes will rarely ever sound good.

But Chaos is more of an experiment in doing things wrong.

grimmythereaper
06-05-2013, 03:15 AM
i put a borla on my old ST and it was really quite at idel and really deep toned and nice sounding at higher rpms

mar_phi6
06-05-2013, 03:26 AM
Just get a Turbo muffler. I had one in my St not loud

matthew rankin
06-06-2013, 03:08 AM
yea, my brothers civic ex has an dc sports exhaust and its really raspy and im wanting a loud, raspy exhaust.

david in germany
06-06-2013, 09:49 AM
Supertrapp. You can tune it to the sound that you want.

METDeath
06-06-2013, 01:09 PM
I liked how my Flowmaster 40 Series 2.5" sounded, deleted the resonator left the stock header and cat though. Granted, that was on a 5S...