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View Full Version : Performance Head? Forged internal questions.



DanteDemont
05-01-2013, 06:55 PM
Still getting to know about the inside of the engine, but I'm having a new Remanufactured engine I'll be dropping in my car it's the 5sfe.

It's a 1990 toyota Celica GTS, is there any pistons, valves, or lifters that's worth getting that will beef it up just a small amount?
I'm rebuilding this car an it's been almost 2 years, I was wondering what are the pros an cons of having an aftermarket cylinder head on it, or aftermarket forged internals?
Is it worth it?
If so where should I start looking?

I seen this reman head but I'm not sure if it'll fit due to the whole "Federal/California" type, how do I find this out as well?

I'm looking for parts that will go in, an not put too much of a strain into anything, like they always say you get to pick 2 out out of the 3 things:
Reliable
Fast
Cheap.

I want reliable an fast honestly.
Any help/suggestions?

fussellbug
05-01-2013, 07:10 PM
It's not cost effective to try to get more horsepower from the 5S-FE because it was designed to be an economy engine. If you've already spent the money on a remanufactured 5S-FE, just run it as is and spend your money on things that will give you the most bang for your buck like suspension upgrades.

MrWOT
05-01-2013, 07:28 PM
I seen this reman head but I'm not sure if it'll fit due to the whole "Federal/California" type, how do I find this out as well?

If it has provisions for EGR, it'll be fine.

As for upgrading, a cam would be the best thing to do since you're getting a new head anyway.

Hookecho
05-01-2013, 09:12 PM
Cams are the best bang for the buck. You will likely get 15hp or a little more. If you still have your old set of cams you can have them reground. Back when I had my 5sfe I had my cams ground by Colt Cams in Canada for $180.

alltracman78
05-02-2013, 01:58 PM
Fast and reliable?
Get a 3SGTE.
Or at least a turbo [Do it RIGHT if you want reliable. Check out Mannys {presure2} build]. You're wasting your money on an NA 5SFE build. Toyota designed the head [F is economy, G is performance] for fuel economy [and torque], not power.
If you get your cams reground you'll need new shims for the lifters also. And you can't tune the cams because they're "slaved" together.

As far as Federal vs California emissions; for your car the only difference is Ca has a temp sensor in the EGR valve. Some also had a second O2 sensor, but IIRC that wasn't 'til 92. The engine mechanicals are identical,.

DanteDemont
05-02-2013, 03:00 PM
Got it so Cams is the way to go.
I'll be getting the entire brick from advance auto parts, so should I not use those an use an aftermarket cam?

If so what all do I need to buy, is there any good places to buy from?

underscore
05-02-2013, 03:05 PM
If you haven't done the head yet, you could convert to a 5SGE, but that's a lot of wiring work.

Hookecho
05-02-2013, 03:36 PM
Colt Cams will provide the correct shims when they regrind your cams.

DanteDemont
05-02-2013, 03:37 PM
What's a 5SGE?
What all has to be done for that swap?
I just bought a new wiring harness for it.

underscore
05-02-2013, 05:16 PM
5SGE is a 5SFE block/crank/rods/pistons with a 3SGE head/sensors/harness/ecu.

DanteDemont
05-02-2013, 11:44 PM
Seems simple enough.
Any problems I should be aware of, Difficulties, ect?

Also what is gained from this swap?
Horsepower? Better air flow?

Hookecho
05-03-2013, 12:49 PM
It's not really a simple swap. I've never researched it much but the 3sge head is really useless N/A without TVIS imo. So you need to source the head, intake manifold w/TVIS and the wiring harness with electronics. By then you have spent time and money that you could have used for a turbo swap. I'm sure you could swap just the head itself but whats the real point? To have a better head design? Sure, why not. If you want to stay N/A then that makes sense. To much trouble to go through for the minimal gains though. It would be way easier to swap in the whole 3sge motor. They are cheap, like $200 at pull-a-part, and easy to find. Hybrid motors sound cool but are really a pain in the ass.

METDeath
05-03-2013, 02:38 PM
It's not really a simple swap. I've never researched it much but the 3sge head is really useless N/A without TVIS imo. So you need to source the head, intake manifold w/TVIS and the wiring harness with electronics. By then you have spent time and money that you could have used for a turbo swap. I'm sure you could swap just the head itself but whats the real point? To have a better head design? Sure, why not. If you want to stay N/A then that makes sense. To much trouble to go through for the minimal gains though. It would be way easier to swap in the whole 3sge motor. They are cheap, like $200 at pull-a-part, and easy to find. Hybrid motors sound cool but are really a pain in the ass.

The main reason for the head swap is that the 5S-FE makes 135 HP stock, and has more displacement than the rev1 3S-GE (which is all we get in the states). The 3S-GE (rev 1) makes about the same power on a lower displacement, so it's basically an improved displacement 5S-FE. However, I've yet to see a before/after dyno from a head swap. So no telling if there's any serious gains, or if it's just false butt dynos.

Hookecho
05-03-2013, 02:55 PM
If you want to keep it simple then just get cams for the 5sfe if you want a little more pep. It will still run out of steam after 75mph. Trust me on this. I had a modded 5sfe. It was significantly quicker off the line and had plenty more torque over stock but all of it's power was low to mid range. If you are going to go for the whole setup like intake, header, exhaust, and cams then spend that money and swap in a different motor. A 3sge would make a great N/A swap and is easy to do.

underscore
05-03-2013, 03:20 PM
It's not really a simple swap. I've never researched it much but the 3sge head is really useless N/A without TVIS imo. So you need to source the head, intake manifold w/TVIS and the wiring harness with electronics.

That's basically what I said. You take a 3SGE and replace the block and everything contained within it with a 5S. I didn't list the manifold but I figured that would be somewhat obvious. If he already has a rebuilt 5S bottom end, this is what I'd do to save money by still using that bottom end. If he hasn't already got that there's 3 options that I'd suggest:
1) Basic 5SFE rebuild, maybe reground cams. Easy because you can leave everything outside of the block and head alone.
2) V6 swap for N/A power and a more modern engine.
3) 3SGTE swap for das turbo.

MrWOT
05-03-2013, 03:21 PM
It's not really a simple swap. I've never researched it much but the 3sge head is really useless N/A without TVIS imo.

It's true. The ports on the 1st gen G head are huge, 2nd gen and 3rd gen are smaller. It's not so bad with TVIS and a turbo, but N/A, you need to spin it to the moon with cams to suit. But if you do, it'd be a fun ride ;)

I've seen some TODA cams for the G head that would suit it N/A.

I'd love to drive Conrads Starlet with an N/A, 10K prepped, last gen GE in it. :drool: