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Possumface
04-06-2013, 03:43 PM
Okay so my cooling fan motor went bad out of nowhere got a replacement and it works when I hotwire it straight to the battery but when I plug it in my socket to the car it wont turn on,
i have looked at the fuse under the hood by the battery (i assume its just 1?)
if worse case I may just put a switch in the car and have to turn it on when i start the car..would that be okay or would that burn anything up?
this all started when the wires from my temp sensor broke off they were very brittle, so i rewired them to the sensor..
maybe this is why?
any advice if anyone has had this problem:boohoo:

Possumface
04-07-2013, 08:37 PM
Would it just be safe to wire up a switch and kick it on to keep the car cool?
would love any advice from anyone. this is becoming a headache.

4thgenceli
04-07-2013, 08:58 PM
The fans aren't designed to run 100% duty all the time

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Possumface
04-07-2013, 11:11 PM
well when I unplug it from the t-stat (radiator cooling switch) it will be hard to turn on and my engine light will come on so i put the old one back on and now its running like shit and rough, im all out of idea's on this thing.
and even with the new switch sensor the fans wont turn on at all, so i assume its the temp sender sensor for that problem, but still dont know why it runs rough and rich

93celicaconv
04-08-2013, 12:45 AM
Assuming your 1991 Toyota Celica STX 1.6L has air conditioning, you have two electric fans involinvg the radiator and A/C condenser. I'm assuming your are talking about the fan on the engine side of the radiator, but not sure. Most often, the one on the bumper side of the radiator is the one that goes out. And that fan isn't used to cool the radiator, but rather the A/C condenser when the A/C is on.

Please verify which fan you are having the problem with.

Possumface
04-08-2013, 01:40 AM
sorry bud the one i replaced was the radiator side one one on the right side the one on the left i thought was for the AC, bc went i unplugged it from the radiator fan switch it turns on bbut when i plug it in it shuts off.
and sense i put a new one in it started running like crap and hard to start

93celicaconv
04-08-2013, 01:49 AM
sorry bud the one i replaced was the radiator side one one on the right side the one on the left i thought was for the AC, bc went i unplugged it from the radiator fan switch it turns on bbut when i plug it in it shuts off.
and sense i put a new one in it started running like crap and hard to start

By "right side", are you talking passenger side? If so, that fan is on the bumper side (not engine side), and is the A/C condenser fan. It will not come on when the temp switch for coolant activates - it only comes on when A/C compressor is running.

Why don't you test the fan operation when you have the A/C system on and the A/C compressor is running. When the A/C compressor is running, do both fans turn on?

Possumface
04-08-2013, 01:55 AM
sorry i ment left side ( drivers side) the AC fan doesnt work i think it needs a new motor but thats not the one im worried about its the other stuff. the only thing i could think of is something bad in the wireharness.

93celicaconv
04-08-2013, 02:04 AM
OK, so neither of the fans worked, and you are just trying to get the driver's side fan operating again, right?

Does this fan, when connected to the proper wiring harness, turn on when you turn your A/C system on and your air compressor is operating?

Does this fan turn on when you disconnect the wiring harness from your temperature switch for the coolant on this circuit?

Possumface
04-08-2013, 02:11 AM
no it doesnt turn on when the Ac is on, But it turns on when I disconnect it from the temp switch. and now its throwing a code and running like its unplugged. I would assume the ECU is reading its ither to cold or something like that my old truck had the same problem

93celicaconv
04-08-2013, 02:19 AM
The ECU is not involved with the operation of this fan.

First, I am surprised this fan does not run when your A/C system is operating - it should. Does your A/C system work (does your A/C compressor kick on when you turn your A/C system on)?

Second, when you disconnect your coolant temperature switch, the fan should turn on. The fact that it does says your wiring system is just fine. Given this, there are really only 2 possibilities for this particular fan:

Your coolant temperature switch is faulty
Your coolant temperature at the coolant temperature switch never warms up enough to activate the switch

The coolant temperature sender for your temperature guage is just for your temperature guage. Your engine coolant temperature sensor is just for your ECU. This particular fan has it's own coolant temperature switch (notice each has a unique name).

So, what do you think you want to do next, now that you have this information?

Possumface
04-08-2013, 02:25 AM
i may get that coolant temp switch, thats the only one i havent replaced my wires were so brittle they broke off and had to rewire them.
heres a pic (i know its not pretty) just a temp fix till i can find the pig tail from a J.y to wire it up correctly.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/972989/fullsize/rereere.jpg

93celicaconv
04-08-2013, 02:59 AM
i may get that coolant temp switch, thats the only one i havent replaced my wires were so brittle they broke off and had to rewire them.
heres a pic (i know its not pretty) just a temp fix till i can find the pig tail from a J.y to wire it up correctly.
http://www.supermotors.net/getfile/972989/fullsize/rereere.jpg

Before throwing money at a part and being frustrated that it doesn't do anything different, let's find out some more.

Why are you concerned about your cooling fan? Does your engine overheat (does your temperature gauge in your dash approach the red zone at times)? If it does, are you sure this fan is not operating?

You said earlier that when you unplugged this sensor, your engine light came on. Are you talking about your check engine light? If so, you unplugged the wrong sensor. The wiring harness in which you have all the yellow temporary wiring, with the green harness connector, is the engine coolant temperature sensor, which involves your ECU. It does not have anything to do with your radiator cooling fan. If this is the sensor you unplugged, your check engine light should come on. Don't unplug this sensor with the engine running, ever.

See the sensor that has 2 wires on a white harness connector, just below your distributor? The one on your thermostat housing cap? That is your coolant temperature switch than operates your radiator cooling fan. See the large hose connected to it on the left? Is this large hose connected on the other end at the bottom of your radiator? It should be. When your engine runs, this hose takes a long time to get warm. It has to be hot before this switch activates and turns your radiator cooling fan on. Let your engine run a good long time, while you monitor your temperature gauge and the temperature of this large hose. As long as your temperature gauge doesn't start working its way towards hot, but only after this hose gets good & hot, will your coolant switch activate and your radiator fan comes on. Try that once and see if everything actually works like it should.

Possumface
04-08-2013, 04:01 AM
good idea ill try that tomorrow, but the one with the yellow temp wires were never unplugged while it was running the plastic sensor thing inside it came out and left the metal piece in there so should i try to get a new one and put the new wires on that to see if it would work? but it does over heat and I know its the fan cause I watched it get to 200 deg and the fan wasnt comming on and kept climbing, yes coolant was in it and my t-stat was changed also, so im already ahead on the game there. But could the check engine light be because my temp sensor could be bad or broken? weather the fan comes on or not has nothing to do with it having a hard time to start and runs real rought like its sputtering
I do appreciate the advice,

93celicaconv
04-08-2013, 12:27 PM
Yes, it is possible you engine running condition is due to your ECU not getting the proper information from your engine coolant temperature sensor. It could be a lot of things. You should get a pigtail from a salavge yard to replace your temporary setup. I wouldn't replace that engine coolant temperature sesnor quite yet, as you haven't determined it is defective (unless you can get one free or cheap from a salvage yard).

It is usually best to diagnose and fix one problem at a time. You have at least 2 hear (proobably 3, as you've been silent on your A/C system operation). I would select what priority your problems are and go about fixing them one at a time. Just a suggestion.

Possumface
04-08-2013, 01:50 PM
well my Ac doesnt work it needs freon in it but the clutch dosent engage at all, but to be honest i could care less about my ac at this point.
and there arnt many toyota's here in fl at a JY around me we would be lucky to get a corolla or camry every so often with a motor in it or anything salvageable.

93celicaconv
04-08-2013, 02:11 PM
Your A/C compressor clutch will not engage w/o freon (there is a pressure switch in the refrigerant circuit to prevent operating the A/C compressor with no freon in the system). That explains why your fans won't come on when you operate your A/C system - your A/C system in inoperable.

Possumface
04-09-2013, 01:39 PM
yeah i assumed so, it has a leak somewhere but I wasnt to worried about the AC system just yet i was going to have a shop tell me all whats wrong and what needs to be replaced as I dont mess with Ac systems.

Possumface
04-09-2013, 09:42 PM
well here is a update I put on the new temp sender got one for like 5 bucks so the car starts up great no issues there anymore, but I still have the engine light and my fans wont turn on still, i let it sit for a good 30-45 min got up to like 200 deg and they wernt doing anything..any other ideas? could the radiator fan switch be causing it?
and could the engine light be on from the temp sensor still? I herd you had to reset it. but not sure how. but progress is being mad! just back to the original problem haha

93celicaconv
04-09-2013, 11:16 PM
You have 2 issues going on, each one independent of the other.

Issue #1: Radiator cooling fan operation:
What "temp sender" did you replace? The one connected by the green 2-wire harness connector, or the one connected with the white 1-wire harness connector?
The coolant temperature switch opens (i.e.; turns on the radiator cooling fan) at a coolant temperature of 199 deg F or slightly above. It may be possible you never got quite to that temperature?
The coolant temperature switch grounds (i.e.; turns off the radiator cooling fan) at a coolant temperature of 181 deg F.


Issue #2: Check Engine Light on:

There are many possible reasons for the check engine light to be on. You need to check the code stored in the ECU (may be multiple codes). If you know how to do that, please check what your 2-digit code number(s) is/are, and let us know so we can help on this item.


If you don't know how to check for the ECU codes, there is a writeup in the 5th Gen BGB in this forum, or ask and someone can give you a written description of how to accomplish

Possumface
04-10-2013, 01:27 AM
thanks man! I replaced the green 2 wire one (the one with the temp wires for the fix) and started running great!
so the car needs to be at 199 deg? i have a manual on it and it said that anything over 190 is a little warm, could be wrong but ill double check tonight,
but I let it run around 200 but maybe It didnt get hot enough.
Ill take it for a ride tonight and see what comes up, what is "overheating" temp exactly? i would assume like 250/300?

Possumface
04-10-2013, 02:06 AM
well the temp got up to 210 and i went home to check it and the fans were running! so thats good news for me, but i turned it off and waited 10 min cranked it up and had smoke come from the tail pipe, it wasnt white but more like it was burning oil somehow. and I herd bubbling comming from the radiator but its filled with water not coolant so I guess I gotta get some coolant for the car and no water cause that boils over i guess.

93celicaconv
04-10-2013, 02:58 AM
thanks man! I replaced the green 2 wire one (the one with the temp wires for the fix) and started running great!
so the car needs to be at 199 deg? i have a manual on it and it said that anything over 190 is a little warm, could be wrong but ill double check tonight,
but I let it run around 200 but maybe It didnt get hot enough.
Ill take it for a ride tonight and see what comes up, what is "overheating" temp exactly? i would assume like 250/300?

This suggests your previous engine coolant sensor probably was not calibrated anymore, so the ECU was getting a temperature input which was not real, so the ECU was controlling the air/fuel ratio to an engine temperature that it was not getting properly, causing your engine to run poorly. So I think you did fix a problem. Trouble is, your check engine light is still on, so you have another emissions problem somewhere. Could be you ran to rich a fuel ratio for too long, so you may have a cat issue or an O2 sensor issue now, but regardless, you need to get the code from the ECU, as it is trying to tell you something, so you need to listen to what it says.

That temperature switch is not perfectly precise. It may actuate at +/- 5 deg F from target, so getting up to 204 to 205 deg. F is within its normal tolerance range to accuate.

Your thermostat is supposed to be a 180 deg. stat. That just means it starts opening at 180 deg F. It would be fully open around 195-205 deg F. Your engine probably would operate at 185 deg F or so with a 180 deg F stat. Your radiator fan is set to come on above that due to the system design. If you have a factory temp. gauge in your instrument cluster, you will notice it likely didn't move when the radiator cooling fan came on, even as the coolant temp within the engine was higher than the 180 deg stat value - Toyota's have a dead zone on their temp gauges so you don't see small flucuations within the normal operating temperature range.

More than you want to know, but if you want to diagnose something, you sort of have to understand cooling systems design.

Overheat temperature (when the factory gauge reaches the red zone) is somewhere in the 230-240 deg F range. Yes, it goes up pretty fast once you get above about 205 deg.

93celicaconv
04-10-2013, 03:02 AM
well the temp got up to 210 and i went home to check it and the fans were running! so thats good news for me, but i turned it off and waited 10 min cranked it up and had smoke come from the tail pipe, it wasnt white but more like it was burning oil somehow. and I herd bubbling comming from the radiator but its filled with water not coolant so I guess I gotta get some coolant for the car and no water cause that boils over i guess.

Yes, get the plain water out of there. I had no idea you were running clear water. Don't do that, or keep it in there. Plain water boils at a much lower temp. than when mixed with anti-freeze. What is worse is that the cylinder wall temps are well above the water boiling point, so I am sure you heard water boiling in your block. When water boils, there is less and less water contact with the cylinder walls, so the cylinder walls get way too hot because there is no water contact to absorb the heat anymore once the boiling process starts. The oil film on those cylinder walls burns due to the hot cylinder walls, which is what you saw coming out the exhaust pipe. This is bad for the engine. Get yourself up to a 50:50 to 30:70 ratio water/anti-freeze ratio in your cooling system very soon.

Possumface
04-10-2013, 03:17 AM
yes sir I am going to get the 50 50 tomorrow morning and fill it up and let it run and hope it solves all my problems. Thank you for all the advice and help now I can work on more small things haha

93celicaconv
04-10-2013, 03:21 AM
yes sir I am going to get the 50 50 tomorrow morning and fill it up and let it run and hope it solves all my problems. Thank you for all the advice and help now I can work on more small things haha

The 50:50 pre-mix is good if you can get all the water out of your system. You can't. I would suggest you find out what your cooling system capacity is (it will be in your owners manual), then get enough undiluted 100% antifreeze to be at least half the capacity of your system, drain as much water as you can get out, put at least half your system capacity of undiluted 100% antifreeze in, then add distilled water to fill the system up the rest of the way.

If you put a 50:50 premix in with the amount of water that will remain in your system after you drain it, you will be be at a 25:75 to 30:70 ratio when you are done, which is not adequate boil protection, especially for your climate.

Possumface
04-10-2013, 03:35 AM
would the best way to get it out would be to drain it from the radiator?

Galcobar
04-10-2013, 11:25 AM
That will only drain the radiator. You'd also want to pull disconnect the hose leading from the radiator to the thermostat, on the thermostat end. This would drain the block.

93celicaconv
04-10-2013, 11:47 AM
That will only drain the radiator. You'd also want to pull disconnect the hose leading from the radiator to the thermostat, on the thermostat end. This would drain the block.

Not on a 4A-FE. The thermostat on this engine is at the head level, way above the block. On the 5S-FE and 3S-GTE this would work, but not on the 4A-FE. Best way to drain "most" of the cooling system on a 4A-FE is to remove the block drain plug. You still won't get out the water from the heater core and associated hoses.

I do believe, on the 4A-FE, you will get out a little more than half of the coolant capacity by completely draining the radiator. That way, if you use 100% non-diluted anti-freeze to fill up the radiator, your end result will be about a 50:50 mix, perhaps just a little higher on the antifreeze side, which is OK.

Possumface
04-10-2013, 02:00 PM
ah gotcha ill do that today and see where we come at.. ill let you guys know the final result

Galcobar
04-11-2013, 01:42 AM
Gah, forgot which thread I was in -- in another discussion about the 5SFE and coolant issues and I conflated the two.

With the 4AFE, should you not be able to disconnect the water inlet hose from the water inlet pipe -- far as I can tell it's a clamp holding the hose onto the pipe -- to drain the system from the back end?

Possumface
04-11-2013, 01:52 PM
well i drained all the water and put in new stuff...fans didnt even kick on and it started to overheat but i was letting it run for a good 45 min to get all the air out the system, i think there may be a short in my wiring somewhere..not sure its becomnig a huge pain in the ass

93celicaconv
04-13-2013, 02:49 AM
What was telling you that you were overheating?

I guess it is time to replace your coolant temperature switch. Given that an open circuit causes your fan to run, and when you disconnect the wiring harness at the switch, your fan runs (which proves you do not have a short-circuit in the wiring), you should purchase a new coolant temperature switch and see if that works for you. It should do the trick. Advise after you changed your coolant temperature switch on what the new results are.

Possumface
04-13-2013, 03:22 AM
okay will do that in the morning, and I have 2 gauges the mechanical gauge and the stock one it was going a little warm not by much but it kept rising and I just shut it down and let it sit for a few days but ill update tomorrow afternoon

Possumface
04-13-2013, 03:30 AM
ment to ask is it the one with the 2 wires or the 1 wire?
i replaced the coolant temp sensor (2 wired one that i have the temp wires ran to.)

93celicaconv
04-13-2013, 01:08 PM
ment to ask is it the one with the 2 wires or the 1 wire?
i replaced the coolant temp sensor (2 wired one that i have the temp wires ran to.)

The coolant temperature switch that controls your radiator cooling fans is the one with the 1-wire harness.

Possumface
04-13-2013, 11:36 PM
heres the update I put the new coolant temp switch in and the fans kick on at 210 deg, engine light still on and still gotta pump the gas to get it to start but It runs now and no overheating.
Thank you guys for all the help.

93celicaconv
04-14-2013, 01:53 PM
That switch activation temperature is within reason. Sounds like you have resolved one problem. Please go back to post #20; you still have this 2nd problem. This 2nd problem could be more significant that the first.

Do you know how to get the code(s) from the ECU that is causing your check engne light to be on? We need to get those codes.

Possumface
04-14-2013, 02:04 PM
no i do not is there a video or pic link? i saw the paperclip trick? can you do that on our's?

93celicaconv
04-14-2013, 02:23 PM
Use the procedure at the front end of the attached. You will need to click on it to expand it to read it better. Then let us know what code(s) you discover.

http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/jarosin/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page1_zps430b04e5.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/jarosin/media/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page1_zps430b04e5.jpg.html)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/jarosin/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page2_zpsee4b7ffd.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/jarosin/media/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page2_zpsee4b7ffd.jpg.html)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/jarosin/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page3_zpsc03dc08a.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/jarosin/media/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page3_zpsc03dc08a.jpg.html)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/jarosin/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page4_zpsf4e78977.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/jarosin/media/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page4_zpsf4e78977.jpg.html)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/jarosin/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page5_zpsfe87bdf5.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/jarosin/media/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page5_zpsfe87bdf5.jpg.html)
http://i849.photobucket.com/albums/ab59/jarosin/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page6_zpscb4278f9.jpg (http://s849.photobucket.com/user/jarosin/media/4A-FEECUDiagnosis-page6_zpscb4278f9.jpg.html)

Possumface
04-14-2013, 10:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jlCwp6qWOs&feature=youtu.be
here is the video..looks like my problem is the coolant temp sensor, or well the wiring that is. any idea's on how to fix it?
ive looked and we have no celicas here were i live and couldnt find one online..

93celicaconv
04-14-2013, 10:53 PM
Looks like code 22, which is what you said in the video, an ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor circuit issue. Because you have that temporary wiring, that is probably the cause, or something further back in the wiring harness.

You got a very low cost ECT sensor - is it a Toyota OEM part?

My suggestion to you is to go out to a salvage yard, find a Camry or Corolla with the 1.6L 4A-FE engine in it, get the ECT sensor and enough of the wiring harness connector & pigtail to remove your temporary wiring, and see what happens. Also, you should always solder wiring connections for sensors - wire nuts or crimps are never quite good enough. You probably just have a loose connection in your temporary wiring, or where you wires go into your harness connector at the sensor, causing the problem.

Possumface
04-14-2013, 11:12 PM
yeah the part is toyota OEM, grandfather use to work there so I get the good hookups.
but anyway ive never soldered anything so im not really sure how to do that, i believe i have one my grandpa gave me ill check, but Im 98% sure its were my wires are connected, but as for a pigtail well ive looked in every JY around me and we all have 2200 or none 4afe motors so im not in much luck there

Galcobar
04-15-2013, 01:07 AM
Crimped connections are good enough for Toyota -- though to be fair Toyota's idea of a crimped connection is usually rather more robust than those found at your local Radio Shack.

Possumface
04-15-2013, 01:34 AM
yeah I know i need to redo mine as I just threw it together and didnt really care but Ima go back and we do it to make it right, but I think its the part that is connected to the sensor itself is the problem, i need that green conector to plug in it and i should be good.

93celicaconv
04-15-2013, 02:18 AM
If it helps, the 1990-1991 Celica GT & GT-S cars with the 2.2L 5S-FE had the same engine coolant temperature (ECT) sensor that your 1991 Celica ST 1.6L 4A-FE has (Toyota Part No. 89422-20010).

Also, the 1992 on up Camrys with the 2.2L 5S-FE engine also had the ECT sensor.

So your chances of finding a pigtail should be pretty good.

Possumface
04-15-2013, 02:32 AM
awsome cause i saw a good one the other day so ill just grab the pigtail this week prob friday and let you guys know how it works out