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Doowstados
02-10-2013, 03:40 AM
I'm on the last part of the auto to manual conversion, and I'm trying to fill the system with fluid and bleed it. I've been working on bleeding the system for like 30 mins and I'm getting what feels like nowhere. I can see bubbles and a SMALL amount of fluid coming out of the slave and into my bleeder bottle, but it doesn't seem to be pressurized as much as it should be. I can't find any leaks in the hoses, and the slave is not pressurizing (not engaging the arm of the throw out bearing).

Am I doing something wrong?

celica9303
02-10-2013, 03:45 AM
An empty system takes a Bit to bleed. Did you try pumping the clutch a few times to create pressure before cracking the slave bleeder? You sure the master cylinder reservoir is staying full? If you empty the master it will make it take longer due to introducing more air in to system.

4thgenceli
02-10-2013, 03:48 AM
Yep.

It takes a while, especially if you're doing it by foot. After I swapped in new master & slave cylinders it took close to 45 minutes to bleed it (and that was using a power vacuum bleeder).

celica9303
02-10-2013, 03:54 AM
I want a vacuume bleeder....... Worth it?

Doowstados
02-10-2013, 04:20 AM
Looks like I'm getting a vacuum bleeder...

joe's gt
02-10-2013, 06:11 AM
Vacuum bleeder is a good investment. Another neat trick is to stick a hose off the bleeder and submerse it in the fluid that you are using. Just keep pumping the clutch until you fill the system with fluid. Pump it through and make sure no air bubbles are coming out of the submerged hose. Putting teflon tape around the bleeder screw as Luni has suggested in the past is also a good idea.

Doowstados
02-10-2013, 08:10 AM
This damn thing won't bleed. I sat out there for an hour with a mityvac and collected a pint and a half of fluid, but I'm still getting way more air than fluid with each opening of the valve. I don't get it.

KoreanJoey
02-10-2013, 09:06 PM
Make sure to keep the master reservoir full?

Doowstados
02-10-2013, 09:21 PM
Make sure to keep the master reservoir full?

It isn't going down. It's staying full the entire time, maybe losing 1/8 of its fluid every 15 mins of pumping with the mityvac.

4thgenceli
02-10-2013, 09:30 PM
Check your connections. Make sure the line is nice and snug and put some teflon on the bleeder valve. How's the clutch pedal feel?

Doowstados
02-10-2013, 09:38 PM
Check your connections. Make sure the line is nice and snug and put some teflon on the bleeder valve. How's the clutch pedal feel?

It's still sticking to the floor. All the connections SEEM fine, I don't see any leaks.

Doowstados
02-11-2013, 03:43 AM
Went ahead and got a new master since that (other than the lines) was the only part of the clutch system that wasn't new. Didn't help, still won't bleed. I'm at a loss. Tried swapping to the old slave for fear of a bad new one, didn't help.

I don't know where to go from here. The only other thing I can think of is a new line, looks like ill be ordering one...

Luni
02-11-2013, 05:22 AM
Sometimes its easiest to bleed at all of the connections. Are you trying to do this yourself or do you have a buddy with you?

celica9303
02-11-2013, 06:20 AM
Sometimes its easiest to bleed at all of the connections. Are you trying to do this yourself or do you have a buddy with you?

What other connection do you speak of? Only bleeder I have is the slave.

Check everything over again. Just remember Everytime you open the bleeder you potentially add more air to the system. Are the fittings on the mightyvac tight?

Doowstados
02-11-2013, 07:24 AM
What other connection do you speak of? Only bleeder I have is the slave.

Check everything over again. Just remember Everytime you open the bleeder you potentially add more air to the system. Are the fittings on the mightyvac tight?

I have a smokin' hot assistant helping me.

The fittings are tight, the mityvac has no trouble holding pressure when the valve is closed.

I tried reverse bleeding (forcing fluid up the slave to the master with a hand pump) and just made a mess. Wasted a whole day today trying to do this. It sucks that I finished this whole swap and I am getting caught up on what should be the easiest part.

Luni
02-11-2013, 08:31 PM
Each connection.

You bleed the connection from the master to the clutch line. Then you bleed the connection from the softline to the hardline. Then you bleed the slave bleed nipple.

Also, a trick is to take the slave nipple off, get all of the oxidation off it if theres any, and wrap teflon tape around the threads, so when its open it isnt letting air in from the threads, only letting air out from the hole. Ive never had a FWD car I couldnt bleed a clutch line without using a mityvac. On my MR2 its a bloody pain without a vacuum bleeder, but on a Celica, it should be piece of cake honestly.

Murgatroy
02-11-2013, 08:35 PM
You bench bled the Master before install, right?

4thgenceli
02-11-2013, 08:59 PM
You bench bled the Master before install, right?

While I see the logic, I have to object. Bench bleeding master cylinders really is not necessary (in my opinion). Since I use a power bleeder, I hook it up and let nature take it's course so-to-speak. After the new master/slave I just installed it took about an hour with my bleeder to have the system bleed. I still followed up with a 15 minute the manual way, but that was more for me to adjust the clutch pedal travel and feel.

Luni
02-12-2013, 12:31 AM
While I see the logic, I have to object. Bench bleeding master cylinders really is not necessary (in my opinion). Since I use a power bleeder, I hook it up and let nature take it's course so-to-speak. After the new master/slave I just installed it took about an hour with my bleeder to have the system bleed. I still followed up with a 15 minute the manual way, but that was more for me to adjust the clutch pedal travel and feel.

Yeah mr master mechanic? How many of these have you done?

Clutch system itself isnt TOO bad since its small, but on a brake system, you will go CRAZY trying to get all the shit out of the system if you dont bench bleed it. Its a good rule of thumb to follow, and you only lose like 30-45 seconds doing it. No offense Tim, but its bad for to advise someone its not important to bench bleed a system.

4thgenceli
02-12-2013, 12:39 AM
Yeah mr master mechanic? How many of these have you done?

Clutch system itself isnt TOO bad since its small, but on a brake system, you will go CRAZY trying to get all the shit out of the system if you dont bench bleed it. Its a good rule of thumb to follow, and you only lose like 30-45 seconds doing it. No offense Tim, but its bad for to advise someone its not important to bench bleed a system.

We all have our own ways. I don't have a vice or any other means to secure something to have free hands to work so I prefer to use a power bleeder and push the air out.

celica9303
02-12-2013, 04:01 AM
I've never bench bleed a master cylinder, brake system or clutch system.

Nitro_Alltrac
02-12-2013, 04:16 AM
For a new brake master cylinder, bench bleeding makes it easier, even with a vacuum bleeder.

T-spoon
02-12-2013, 04:18 AM
Well, without bench bleeding I can tell you Joel's was a bitch. The MRS was bad, but I expected that. Joel's was really irritating but eventually we got it. It didn't help that the brand new master cylinder he got didn't have enough travel, which we didn't realize right away.

Doowstados
02-12-2013, 10:22 AM
Thanks for all the awesome suggestions guys. How can I bench bleed the master while it's in the car? I really don't want to take it out again, it's a huge pain in the ass to get in and aligned with the clutch pedal mount.

(It's stuck in my single car garage - I have no access to the drivers side door, so I'm forced to lie upside-down while sprawled across the passenger seat and center console to get under the drivers side dash.)

I'll be back in San Diego to finish it up this weekend. If anyone has more ideas, keep em coming.

4thgenceli
02-12-2013, 02:52 PM
Since it's in the car it'll be a bit harder.

Disconnect the hard line to it. I'd put a bleeder in place of it (so you can at least route the fluid out and into a container). Close bleeder, step on the clutch a few times, crack it open and bleed it (just like you're doing brakes or the clutch slave). When no more air comes out, put the hard line back on and move the next point.

If you were doing it on a bench, it's the same idea just you actuate the piston by hand. Then you install it after you bleed it (careful, don't want to spill).

Luni
02-12-2013, 09:53 PM
You dont need a vice to bench bleed anything. You just hold it in one hand and push in and out on the plunger with the other. Usually they give you the little rubber adapter nipples and what not to do it with.

Anyway, to do it in the car, just connect a tube from the output of the cylinder, loop it back into the fluid reservior, and pump the clutch pedal by hand to pump fluid through it. If the fluid ends up all bubbly and air filled, you had MAD air in there.

Once youve bench bled it, connect it back up, and bleed the flair connection for the hardline, then once thats bled, bleed the flair connection to the slave cylinder, and finally, do the bleeder valve. Use teflon tape on the threads for the bleeder itself, and be patient with it and it really shouldnt take TOO long to get pedal pressure if you follow my instructions.

Hipster Lawrence
02-15-2013, 03:05 PM
Goddamn it. What's wrong with the bgb method? You CAN NOT bleed a hydraulic clutch the way you do the brakes. As soon as you open the valve the clutch diaphragm springs push the slave back and sucks air in.

The easy foolproof way, and this works on every car I've ever worked on. Attach a hose to the bleeder valve, put the hose into a bottle with a little brake fluid in the bottom, keep the reservoir full, and pump away. I usually go through about 2x the fluid capacity just to be sure.

I don't bench bleed clutch master cylinders. It's usually not necessary. But you are asking for trouble if you're not bench bleeding brake master cylinders.

Doowstados
02-15-2013, 05:11 PM
Goddamn it. What's wrong with the bgb method? You CAN NOT bleed a hydraulic clutch the way you do the brakes. As soon as you open the valve the clutch diaphragm springs push the slave back and sucks air in.

The easy foolproof way, and this works on every car I've ever worked on. Attach a hose to the bleeder valve, put the hose into a bottle with a little brake fluid in the bottom, keep the reservoir full, and pump away. I usually go through about 2x the fluid capacity just to be sure.

I don't bench bleed clutch master cylinders. It's usually not necessary. But you are asking for trouble if you're not bench bleeding brake master cylinders.

Wait, you're saying I don't need to close bleeder/pump/open bleeder? I can just leave the valve open...? How's that?

Hipster Lawrence
02-15-2013, 09:21 PM
http://i57.photobucket.com/albums/g209/kmlively/21a1abc39810bfb2ae28c1e182cdaf20.jpg
It says to open-push-close-release-open-push etc. I find that is not necessary and that you can just pump away with the valve open as long as the hose is submerged in fluid and the reservoir stays full.

Doowstados
02-16-2013, 12:07 AM
I'm about to blow the damn thing up. Sick of this thing right now - three weekends and I still can't get the damn thing bled.

I can't bench the master because I don't have a bleed valve that will fit the line on the master. I've tried everything, I have to have a clogged hose or something. I'm going to get a pressure bleeder and see if that does the job...

I took a break and tried getting the shift cable clips in (the u shaped ones) and can't even do that right now. EDIT: Nevermind. Prybar fixed that.

Second edit: Tim wins. I went and got a pressure bleeder from HF and let it do its thing, took not even 15 mins. Pretty awesome tool for $20 on sale.

Luni
02-24-2013, 07:46 AM
Man, youd think you had an MR2 with all the trouble you had with bleeding your clutch system.

Doowstados
02-24-2013, 08:34 AM
Man, youd think you had an MR2 with all the trouble you had with bleeding your clutch system.

Yeah, I really don't know what the problem was. I've bled brakes before after pad changes but never a clutch. I expected it would go just as smoothly but take more time because the lines were empty - no beans. The pressure bleeder really did the job quick though, definitely recommended.

Murgatroy
02-25-2013, 01:49 AM
Anyway, to do it in the car, just connect a tube from the output of the cylinder, loop it back into the fluid reservior, and pump the clutch pedal by hand to pump fluid through it. If the fluid ends up all bubbly and air filled, you had MAD air in there.



That is the method I have always used to bench bleed. I have never used a vice, or a bench. But the concept is still the same, thus it is still called bench bleeding.

hyphy
06-29-2013, 07:00 PM
I'm having problems with this i dont know where the nipple to bleed the lines are at... sorry i'm very new at this car stuff can someone help me with this please

Luni
07-02-2013, 10:38 PM
The nipple to bleed is on the slave cylinder assembly which shares mounting location with the front engine mount that is actually on the transmission.