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View Full Version : Engine Choices, Choices... 3GSE Beams VS. 3SGTE



Mr.Lojo
09-25-2012, 03:48 AM
OK I have been battling over this for a long while and now i am at a point that i need to pull the trigger. I want POWER, HP and Durability. I don't know if I want to go turbo, because the only turbo i have driven was a Ford Truck pulling a trailer.

SO Should I go with A) 3GSE Beams Non-Turbo 65k or B)3SGTE 65k. Both come with all the bits and pieces from the same source.:Help:

UtahSleeper
09-25-2012, 05:16 AM
Is this an AT or ST chassis? Also, will this be a DD or just a fun car?

4thgenceli
09-25-2012, 05:21 AM
It's an AT. The S-series is possible, check out the A series performance swaps. 4A-GE, 4A-GZE, etc.

celica9303
09-25-2012, 05:39 AM
1mzfe

UtahSleeper
09-25-2012, 05:03 PM
I would go with an A series motor for ease, but again, depends on what your plans are and what the car is for.

Hookecho
09-25-2012, 10:55 PM
What a no-brainer.

CollapsedNut
09-25-2012, 11:24 PM
1mzfe

+1

Lonestag
09-26-2012, 04:07 AM
The beams would be fun, but all the aftermarket support and most of the technical info out there will apply to the 3SGTE.

Plus, reliability will always be an issue on a swap. I don't think there is a lot of reliability to be gained from staying away from a turbo. Both of these engines are toyota built, don't tend to explode unless somthing goes wrong.

And thats coming from a guy who prefers NA 85% of the time.

KoreanJoey
09-26-2012, 07:11 AM
I have a gen 3 (non-beams) that I ran for many years without any problems. Sourcing parts can be a bit of a pain but not impossible.

Aside from that I was very happy with it and the engine will be put back into a car sometime in the future.

richee3
09-26-2012, 09:47 PM
3S-GTE or 1MZ all the way. This is coming from a BEAMS owner. It's a lot of fun, parts aren't anywhere near as hard to find as most people will lead you to believe, it's easy on gas when you stay out of the pedal, but you're never going to get 200 whp and will still lose to pretty much everything. The power is too high up in the RPM
range to be used often in real work driving. Choose an engine with more low end power. You'll thank yourself every day.

kurt95gt
09-27-2012, 05:27 AM
1mz
The swap is cheaper parts are easy to find
Stock to stock can out run a 3s
Oh an the v6 just sounds cooler lol

alltracman78
09-28-2012, 05:16 PM
That's assuming you get a gen I or II. Gen III or IV [or gen II RC] is much more powerful
And stick an intake, exhaust and boost controller on the GTE and see what happens.
Not to mention the 3S is easier [and cheaper] to maintain. Less parts [4 vs 6 cylinders] and no rear bank to deal with. And, no OBDII...

Not to knock the MZ, it's a good engine. Just not the 6 cly I'd want for performance.

kurt95gt
09-28-2012, 09:58 PM
I've spent less on my entire 1mz swap than you'll spend on just getting a 3s
The rear bank is not bad to work on
Not is a lot simpler than dealing with a top mount
It's lighter than a 3rd gen 3s an yes it will hold boost
An it came obd1 in 94 an 95
But if you get the harness made plug an play it doesn't matter
Obd2 is handy I can get real time data an check my codes from my cell phone
How many 3s swaps can do that?.

Don't get Me wrong the 3s is an amazing motor but its getting old an alittle outdated
Where as the 1mz is newer cheaper , easyier to find with low miles
An I can walk into a parts store an get whatever I need since it'll probably be in stock

Lonestag
09-29-2012, 01:49 AM
Yeah, you really need to swing by and show me this swap some time.

kurt95gt
09-29-2012, 04:26 AM
Once its running on all 6 cyls again well figure something out lol
Hopefully shell ne running Likr a champ again in about 2 weeks

Nitro_Alltrac
09-30-2012, 02:45 AM
Why's she not hitting on all 6 cylinders?

kurt95gt
09-30-2012, 06:38 AM
I stupidly bought a motor from a junk yard that I didn't know an didn't check it over well enough.

It had a sludge issue an clogged a passage to a rod bearing so I now have a rod nock :(
But hopefully ill have everything to fix it around noon today (Sunday)

prophet513
09-30-2012, 08:25 PM
Reading this is making me consider the 1mz swap myself... For now I've been looking at a 20v Silvertop mostly. But with the 1mz, how much does that change the handling? And how much of this swap being less costly is from doing the work yourself?

I've never even looked into a v6 swap for the 5th gen because i've always just assumed that the level of custom parts needed would be ridiculous.

alltracman78
09-30-2012, 11:43 PM
C'mon man, if you're going to argue with me you at least need to have your info straight. :)
ALL US/Canada MZ ECUs are OBDII. Including 94/95. The harness has nothing to do with OBDI or II, the ECU does.
And the early [cheaper] versions aren't as powerful as the later versions. The 1st gen 1MZ is only 188 HP.......
IIRC the MZ doesn't make good hp til they went to the 3MZ in the Camry. Which I bet will cost you a bunch more than a 1st gen 1MZ.
The data list is one definite advantage to OBDII. As long as you know how to read it. :) There's a lot less info on the older engines though. I've seen enough of it [I was a Toyota tech].
But checking codes from my phone I could care less about, it's not very hard to jump 2 terminals in the diag box.
And while OBDII is better for detecting problems in the engine [it's more sensitive than most OBDI], 92^ 3S diagnostics is very close to early OBDII.

The rear bank is more of a pain than working on a 3SGTE, even if you still have the top mount [if you have a FMIC.....]. Especially if you have a newer engine with COP. It's a royal PITA to get the coils out without pulling the upper intake manifold. And the coils have to come out to do the plugs. IF you still have a TMIC on the 3S it's 3 bolts and 3 clamps. Not exactly hard.

And maintenane is more expensive. More oil, more plugs, more coolant, more gaskets, ect. You need 3 or 4 O2 sensors instead of 1. And the newer MZs use A:F sensors, which are more expensive.

All the 3S engine weights are pretty much the same. More than the MZ, but not that much. And it will hold boost, but not as much as a 3S. And once you start turboing it, the price goes up. And the reliabilty goes down.

Speaking of reliability, the MZ engines have oil sludging problems too. I don't know if it's an owner lack of maintenance or a design problem. Or both.

The MZ isn't really much newer than the 3S. The original MZ came out the same time the gen III 3S did. And the newest version of the 1MZ came out before the newest version of the 3S did.....

It's definitely easier to get a MZ engine, and usually cheaper. It's definitely easier to find parts for it. OBDII can be nice to have.
The power curve on the MZ is probably a little better [3S is pretty good too], though I'm curious if there's any actual head to head power/speed comparisons of the 2 engines in a Celica. Or just peoples talk.

There's nothing wrong with a 1MZ swap, and IMO it's definitely not a bad idea.
But it's no better than a 3S swap, just different.

Nitro_Alltrac
10-01-2012, 12:00 AM
The 3MZ was a good power jump. We made them at the WV plant when I was there. The 3MZ's we were making for the Camry, Avalon, Sienna and RX were making 210 HP if I remember correctly. The very last version of the 1MZ we produced, for the same car lines, might have made 200HP but I think it was less though.

celica9303
10-01-2012, 12:51 AM
I like turbo power personally. But the torque of a v6 in such a small car must be great. Drove an older Camry with the v6 (the one before the1mzfe), power delivery was great but without trac control it would spin 1st-3rd IMO.

celica9303
10-01-2012, 12:52 AM
The silvertop 20v with itb would be fun in an st chassis.

kurt95gt
10-01-2012, 06:31 AM
C'mon man, if you're going to argue with me you at least need to have your info straight. :)
ALL US/Canada MZ ECUs are OBDII. Including 94/95. The harness has nothing to do with OBDI or II, the ECU does.
And the early [cheaper] versions aren't as powerful as the later versions. The 1st gen 1MZ is only 188 HP.......
IIRC the MZ doesn't make good hp til they went to the 3MZ in the Camry. Which I bet will cost you a bunch more than a 1st gen 1MZ.
The data list is one definite advantage to OBDII. As long as you know how to read it. :) There's a lot less info on the older engines though. I've seen enough of it [I was a Toyota tech].
But checking codes from my phone I could care less about, it's not very hard to jump 2 terminals in the diag box.
And while OBDII is better for detecting problems in the engine [it's more sensitive than most OBDI], 92^ 3S diagnostics is very close to early OBDII.

The rear bank is more of a pain than working on a 3SGTE, even if you still have the top mount [if you have a FMIC.....]. Especially if you have a newer engine with COP. It's a royal PITA to get the coils out without pulling the upper intake manifold. And the coils have to come out to do the plugs. IF you still have a TMIC on the 3S it's 3 bolts and 3 clamps. Not exactly hard.

And maintenane is more expensive. More oil, more plugs, more coolant, more gaskets, ect. You need 3 or 4 O2 sensors instead of 1. And the newer MZs use A:F sensors, which are more expensive.

All the 3S engine weights are pretty much the same. More than the MZ, but not that much. And it will hold boost, but not as much as a 3S. And once you start turboing it, the price goes up. And the reliabilty goes down.

Speaking of reliability, the MZ engines have oil sludging problems too. I don't know if it's an owner lack of maintenance or a design problem. Or both.

The MZ isn't really much newer than the 3S. The original MZ came out the same time the gen III 3S did. And the newest version of the 1MZ came out before the newest version of the 3S did.....

It's definitely easier to get a MZ engine, and usually cheaper. It's definitely easier to find parts for it. OBDII can be nice to have.
The power curve on the MZ is probably a little better [3S is pretty good too], though I'm curious if there's any actual head to head power/speed comparisons of the 2 engines in a Celica. Or just peoples talk.

There's nothing wrong with a 1MZ swap, and IMO it's definitely not a bad idea.
But it's no better than a 3S swap, just different.

Ok you got me there you know more than me lol

Not all the ecu's will work obd2
94-95 will work off an obd1 port 96 won't work off eather (atleast mine wouldn't) an 97 (an up I'm guessing ) works on the obd2 port.
The older 1mz's oiling problems came from a mix of a poor part design an bad maintenance habits
I think it had something to do with the oil pump an not running synthetic oil. Can't remember off the top of my head atm
After 95 they went from cop on all the plugs to wasted spark
3coils on the front head with spark plugs that run to the rear head

I havent noticed any big jump in maintenance cost other than 2 extra spark plugs
According to my haynes book the Mz an 5s take the same amount of oil
Everything else seems to cost around the same.

Both engines have the stong an week points . I haven't had a turbo car an want to see how much the v6 can do in a celica
Since the 3s has been done a million times over an the 1mz is more in my price range.
Just like today I picked up a 98 avalon for 470 bucks cuz the girl hit a deer.
Car still ran fine an I drove it 2-3 miles from my buddys garage to my house after we picked it up.

kurt95gt
10-01-2012, 06:46 AM
Reading this is making me consider the 1mz swap myself... For now I've been looking at a 20v Silvertop mostly. But with the 1mz, how much does that change the handling? And how much of this swap being less costly is from doing the work yourself?

I've never even looked into a v6 swap for the 5th gen because i've always just assumed that the level of custom parts needed would be ridiculous.
I've done everything in my garage except the harness an exhaust. An did it all with basic set of hand tools an a welder.
Mr220v does an amazing job on the harness an 4v6 makes a bracket for the pass side motor mount.
Depending on what trans you use depends if you nerd to make a custom axle mount.
If you run a stock gt trans ( I did it in a 6gen with a s54 ) you'll need to make a mount.
If you run a e153 the stock trans mount will work but you'll need the same axles the 3s swap guys use.
It's not that hard of a swap it just takes time to make it all fit lol

alltracman78
10-01-2012, 02:54 PM
OBDII isn't really the connector.
Technically it is, becuase that's one of the requirements of the law, that the connector is the same.
But, when it comes down to it, the ECU determines if an engine is OBDII. If you run a 98 Supra with a Megasquirt, you're OBDII port isn't going to work; unless the MS will give back OBDII codes.
A 94, 95 or 96 MZ ECU won't give you OBDI codes, they'll give you OBDII codes.
Any of those 3 years of V6 Camrys should have ALL 3 connectors. The DLC3 should be behind a door on the lower drivers dash.
You can't get engine codes by jumping terminals because it the MIL can't flash OBDII codes. :) You have to hook up an OBDII scanner to the OBDII connector. And a lot of aftermarket ones may not work on the very early cars, you may need a Toyota scan tool.

Also, you have the COP/wasted spark sorta mixed up. :)
MX was wasted spark til ~01, then it went to complete COP.
MZ takes 5 quarts of oil, S takes 4 quarts of oil.

I don't think it's a bad idea to swap in an MZ, I just like the facts to be straight., that's all. :)

kurt95gt
10-01-2012, 03:41 PM
OBDII isn't really the connector.
Technically it is, becuase that's one of the requirements of the law, that the connector is the same.
But, when it comes down to it, the ECU determines if an engine is OBDII. If you run a 98 Supra with a Megasquirt, you're OBDII port isn't going to work; unless the MS will give back OBDII codes.
A 94, 95 or 96 MZ ECU won't give you OBDI codes, they'll give you OBDII codes.
Any of those 3 years of V6 Camrys should have ALL 3 connectors. The DLC3 should be behind a door on the lower drivers dash.
You can't get engine codes by jumping terminals because it the MIL can't flash OBDII codes. :) You have to hook up an OBDII scanner to the OBDII connector. And a lot of aftermarket ones may not work on the very early cars, you may need a Toyota scan tool.

Also, you have the COP/wasted spark sorta mixed up. :)
MX was wasted spark til ~01, then it went to complete COP.
MZ takes 5 quarts of oil, S takes 4 quarts of oil.

I don't think it's a bad idea to swap in an MZ, I just like the facts to be straight., that's all. :)

Well tell that to Mr2 swap guys that still use the jumper wire wire to check codes.
An I swore my book said 4 just like the 5s.

alltracman78
10-01-2012, 04:42 PM
Link to them using jumper wire?
I couldn't find anything.

Haynes is junk. Not your fault it's junk. :)
Is your fault you bought one. :P

And I actually made a mistake; the 94/95 MZ apparently was COP, just like you said. Then they went to the wasted spark, and back to COP in 01 or 02.

kurt95gt
10-01-2012, 05:03 PM
Link to them using jumper wire?
I couldn't find anything.

Haynes is junk. Not your fault it's junk. :)
Is your fault you bought one. :P

And I actually made a mistake; the 94/95 MZ apparently was COP, just like you said. Then they went to the wasted spark, and back to COP in 01 or 02.
I suck at finding links lol witch is why I never post them lol
But Mr220v told me this info an I remember reading a few people saying that they did also.

Thank you for saying you were wrong on that before I got back through a old post on 6gc where 95celicast has a 94 motor that's cop lol I knew it but couldn't find the link to prove it lol

I bought it cuz its all I could find lol
I don't use it that much but sometimes its a handy paper weight

Hookecho
10-01-2012, 05:42 PM
Do you have a build thread? I'd like to see pictures of your swap.

alltracman78
10-01-2012, 05:57 PM
Kurt, you're welcome.
If I find out that I'm wrong I always try to fix it ASAP; it's not right if I give other people shit but don't fix my own. :P

You or they might be mixing up the codes info with a 3VZ, which does use the jumper.
OBDI and OBDII are completely different codes and I doubt an ECU would be set up to do both, and the MIL would have a really hard time flashing out P0141 or P0420, ect. :)
Also, non US/Canada ECUs are OBDI, so if you have a 99 JDM MZ ECU it WILL use the jumper. IIRC JDM didn't get the MZ til 97, so their 95 Camry still have a 3VZ instead of a 1MZ.

Build pics would be great so others could learn from it. :)

kurt95gt
10-01-2012, 07:49 PM
Here's a link to my build thread on 6gc
Once I have the free time I plan on doing a thread here
http://www.6gc.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=82235
It's kinda long an there's about 20 pages of random bullcrap lol

darthripley
10-10-2012, 09:52 PM
if you're going to go A series, go for a 4agze.
very reliable, pulleys are available to increase boost, or you can easily turbo the motor.
don't know what the chassis weighs, but in the MKI we're dead even with a modded 350Z.
i've done a lot of mods, but haven't spent a lot of $$$ on it.
MPGs are very good as well, 24-26mpg consistently with a heavy foot.

if you want n/a 20V BT is the way to go.

1mz is nice, better with a turbo or TRD S/C but those cost a fortune now if you can even source one that isn't in need of an expensive rebuild.

3sgte will net you the most power & torque right off the bat vs all the motors, plus the aftermarket support for it & info is immense.

Mr.Lojo
10-24-2012, 12:54 AM
The choice has been made. A 3S-GE red top BEAMS engine! 3201

richee3
10-24-2012, 05:59 PM
Nice! Be sure to check for LSD. :)

Edit: What all did you get with it? And do you have it in your possession yet or is that picture from the seller?

Mr.Lojo
10-24-2012, 06:46 PM
YES it is in my mechanics shop. That is a picture from my iPhone. I got the full ECU and wiring harness, transmission, and axles. What? check for LSD?

Lonestag
10-24-2012, 08:04 PM
Sweet!

Keep us updated!

Mr.Lojo
10-24-2012, 08:09 PM
Hey Richee3! If i have the beams engine (with electronic speed sensor) will I have to convert the whole instrument cluster of my 1993 Celica? And if so: where can I get the wiring for it?

KoreanJoey
10-24-2012, 09:00 PM
No just deal out the electric sensor for a mechanical sensor.

Mr.Lojo
10-24-2012, 09:12 PM
No just deal out the electric sensor for a mechanical sensor.

How do you mean? I can replace the sensor in the engine from electronic to mechanical? Please say it is so...

KoreanJoey
10-24-2012, 09:25 PM
Whoops, swap, not deal... and it's in the transmission, not the engine.

Mr.Lojo
10-24-2012, 09:27 PM
Whoops, swap, not deal... and it's in the transmission, not the engine.

So replace the sensor in the transmission from electronic to mechanical? really?

Mr.Lojo
10-24-2012, 09:46 PM
Whoops, swap, not deal... and it's in the transmission, not the engine.

EDIT: So replace the sensor in the transmission from electronic to mechanical? really? I have the original mechanical sensor for the 4A-FE engine and transmission that is coming out. can i just SWAP IT OUT?

KoreanJoey
10-24-2012, 10:45 PM
Yup, comes right out of the top of the transmission. Usually just a little clip held in with a 10mm bolt.

Mr.Lojo
10-24-2012, 10:55 PM
it doesn't seam right. The sensor from the Mechanical speedometer will work in the newer transmission? I will pass this on. am i missing anything?

KoreanJoey
10-24-2012, 11:52 PM
Don't think so.

CollapsedNut
10-24-2012, 11:58 PM
Gimmi those pistons.

Mr.Lojo
10-25-2012, 01:13 AM
You want my pistons? How much?

Mr.Lojo
10-25-2012, 01:14 AM
Matter of fact the engine, and transmission are for sale at the end of this swap. First come first serve.

CollapsedNut
10-25-2012, 01:17 AM
The BEAMS pistons, gimmi.

Mr.Lojo
10-25-2012, 01:24 PM
Nope! The BEAMS is all mine😁

4thgenceli
10-25-2012, 04:12 PM
Yes the speed sensor swaps out no problem. The e153 I purchased had and electronic speed sensor on it. I put in a mechanical speed sensor and it works just fine. One 10mm bolt and pulled it out, stuck in a new one.

richee3
10-25-2012, 04:52 PM
You'll definitely want the OEM intake. The BEAMS ECU is pretty picky. There are several dyno charts over on the MR2 BEAMS Owners Group showing OEM vs aftermarket intakes, and the OEM intake always makes the best power. Other intakes that will work are the SARD intake ($300, designed specifically for the BEAMS,) an HKS MAF adapter (I think there might be a couple for sale on the BEAMS Owners Group,) or a 97-01 Camry 1MZ-FE short ram intake. I've had the Camry SRI, the SARD, and the stock BEAMS intake and I can vouch for the OEM intake feeling the best to my butt dyno.

As for checking for LSD, it's easy to do. You can pop the axles out and look inside the transmission. The open differential has a narrow bar and the limited slip diff has a wide bar, blocking almost the entire hole.

Here's a picture of my old S54 the open differential:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/richee3/Car%20Pics/7dd1ac3b.jpg

And a picture of my BEAMS S54 with limited slip:
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee257/richee3/Car%20Pics/4d0bbfa5.jpg

Now for the question if which I know the least: The gauge cluster. I've only seen a handful of posts concerning a BEAMS swap in a 5th gen. The posts I've seen, the guy wired up the entire BEAMS cluster to work in his ST184. I know the 5S and 7A use a distributor and the tach gets the signal from there. To get my tach to work, I either had to swap the BEAMS tach in, or go with a tach adapter like I did. I'm not sure about ST183/184's though. :/

http://www.bitcrusher.org/albums/Celica-Show-Off/PICT2598.sized.jpg

fussellbug
10-28-2012, 06:36 PM
I recently finished my Beams swap into a 1990 ST184 and use the Dakota Digital SGI-8 tach adapter that I bought from Dr. Tweak with my conversion harness. (BTW Dr. Tweak builds OEM quality swap harnesses at very reasonable prices.)

I also was able to use the mechanical speedometer gear from my old transmission directly fitted to the S54 that came with the Beams.

The 6th Gen airbox is too big to use in the 5th Gen engine bay unless you relocate the battery so I cut the MAF tube section from the OEM airbox lid and made custom intake.

Also since this is going into an AT180 you'll have to get a set of motor/transmission mounts from a 5S-FE w/ manual transmission. The hardest one for me to find was the left side (driver's fender) mount, but some of these were still available new through Toyota last year.

Mr.Lojo
10-29-2012, 03:29 AM
About the mounts, I got the full engine and transmission from a JDM ST202. Will I still need those mounts?

fussellbug
10-29-2012, 08:54 PM
My engine also came from an ST202 and none of the ST202 brackets lined up with the ST184 mounting locations. The 5S-FE brackets from a manual transmission 5th Gen will all work with the Beams and S54. I got most of them from my local scrap yard but ordered a couple of items because of front end damage on the car I was pulling from.

Mr.Lojo
10-30-2012, 05:05 AM
So it will be the Left and Right Engine mounts and the Left and Right Transmission Brackets, right?

fussellbug
10-30-2012, 07:28 PM
I just looked through the EPC and discovered that all of the mounts and brackets used with the 4A-FE are different from the 5S-FE. I can tell you for certain that all of the 5S-FE manual transmission mounts and brackets will work with the Beams manual trans. If you can, try to compare your mounts and brackets with a GT or GT-S to see if they'll work, but I'm guessing you may have to replace all of the mounts and brackets to line it up right.

Some other bad news for putting this into an AT180 model is that the CV axles are different and you'll need to get at least the right (passenger) side 5S-FE axle and carrier bearing bracket, then take a close look at the other axle because I think it may have to be replaced as well.

Mr.Lojo
10-30-2012, 08:09 PM
OK lucky i got the axles with the engine. I Understand that i need the mounts and brackets for the engine and transmission. I have found the mounts easy on ebay or auto zone, but not the right hand bracket for the transmission. I am trying to get the count right. XSMN: 2 Brackets LH & RH, 2 mounts LH & RH. ENG: 2 mounts LH & RH. TOTAL: 6 PARTS correct?

fussellbug
10-30-2012, 08:34 PM
Actually you're not going to be able to use the ST202 axles because they're too long. I have a pair sitting in my garage leftover from my install because they were more than an inch longer then the ST184 axles.
In the drawing below (click to enlarge), the brackets and mounts you definitely need are circled in red and the two circled in blue are maybes depending on how different they are from the 5S-FE version:
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/2/2/0/5/5s-fe_mounting_thumb.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=22220)

Below are the part numbers for these items from a GT-S with manual transmission. The two in italics are the ones you may or may not need.
From Crank end of engine to Right Fender:
12362-74120 RH Engine Mounting Insulator
12315-74030 RH Engine Moutning Bracket
From Transmission to Left Fender
12372-74200 LH Engine Mounting Insulator
12325-74080 LH Engine Mounting Bracket
Front of Transmission
12361-74130 Front Engine Mounting Insulator
12311-74080 Front Engine Mounting Bracket
Back of Transmission
12371-74180 Rear Engine Mounting Insulator
12321-74180 Rear Engine Mounting Bracket

Mr.Lojo
10-30-2012, 10:28 PM
Thank you.

fussellbug
10-31-2012, 01:17 PM
Don't know if it was mentioned earlier but you will also need shifter cables from the 5S-FE because the ends of the bracket on the transmission that holds the cbles is thicker on the S54 than on the C-series trans. For that reason the ends of the cable are different enough that they are not interchangeable. This was actually a big PITA to swap because the cables run from the shifter, under the ECU and then trhough the firewall just above the steering rack. Make sure you swap them out while the engine and ECU are out of the car to make it easier for yourself.

Mr.Lojo
11-01-2012, 09:25 PM
thank you. keep the info coming
.

Mr.Lojo
11-10-2012, 09:55 AM
Do you have the part number(s) for the shifter cables from the 5S-FE?

fussellbug
11-10-2012, 03:05 PM
These are the two shifter cables sold by Toyota as separate parts for abour $200 each. I would recommend looking for them in your local U-Pull-It scrap yard or watching for them on eBay. The first cable is available new from the dealer but the second cable is discontinued and no longer available. The year grouping may be because the shifter itself was changed for the 92 model year but I think that cables from any 5th Gen 5S-FE will work.

Cable, Transmission Control Shift:
33821-20682 (90-91)
33821-20850 (92-93)
Cable, Transmission Control Select:
33822-20252 (90-91)
33822-20370 (92-93)

KoreanJoey
11-10-2012, 03:52 PM
If you want to add something beautiful...

http://www.xcessivemanufacturing.com/ONLINESTORE.html?cid=50&step=4&pid=306

fussellbug
11-10-2012, 04:01 PM
KoreanJoey, that would be sweet and I've seen this setup used in RWD cars with significant increase in airflow, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fit between the engine and firewall of a Celica.

4thgenceli
11-10-2012, 04:50 PM
KoreanJoey, that would be sweet and I've seen this setup used in RWD cars with significant increase in airflow, but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't fit between the engine and firewall of a Celica.

I've seen the setup in a space wedge. Good lord those things were sexy and LOUD.. They may fit on a celica, if I remember right they aren't that much larger than the intake manifold.

fussellbug
11-10-2012, 05:04 PM
for those wondering what the difference is between the shifter cables of an ST and GT/GT-S, the picture below shows how the shoulder is longer to fit the S-series transmission. Top is GT/GT-S cable, bottom is ST cable

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/2/2/0/5/shifter_cables.jpg (http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/showimage.php?i=22244)

Mr.Lojo
11-11-2012, 12:44 AM
So one of each?

Mr.Lojo
11-11-2012, 01:39 AM
So mine are ST cables as per this photo. http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/3/1/8/9/img_5124.jpg

fussellbug
11-11-2012, 02:24 PM
So one of each?

Yes. You will need one "Control Select" cable and one "Control Shift" cable from a 5S-FE celica. It won't be easy to pull the cables from a junkyard car because of where they pass through the floor and firewall but it will be good practice to see how much of your car has to come apart to swap them in.

Mr.Lojo
11-16-2012, 08:53 PM
http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/3/1/8/9/img_5312_1.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/3/1/8/9/img_5311_1.jpg

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/3/1/8/9/img_5310_1.jpg

Here is the mounting location on the transmission. You can see how big the flange needs to be from the picture.

Murgatroy
11-17-2012, 01:12 AM
I am wanting to say that Bruce used a set of ST cables on his GT-S when he did his five speed swap after his 3SGTE.

fussellbug
11-17-2012, 03:12 PM
It may be possible to modify the ends of the cables or the mounts on the transmission to make the ST cables work, but it was easy to find a set of correct fitting cables for my swap last year.

Mr.Lojo
12-08-2012, 06:36 AM
Hey everyone, I made a Facebook page for my engine swap. My mechanic is doing a great job and working with me on what the direction I am going with the car. Looking for SEMA 2013 and will represent CELICA TECH if allowed.

https://www.facebook.com/megan.projectexample?fref=ts

Mr.Lojo
01-04-2013, 01:35 AM
take a look at the Engine bay. it has been repainted and ready for new parts.
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/483515_10151276479076624_1651647786_n.jpg

Mr.Lojo
01-04-2013, 05:24 AM
Ok i think i got the wrong part. it was listed as 94 Toyota Celica GT 2.2 5SFE M.T. LH Engine - Motor Mount Bracket. But as i look at the engine mounting diagram, AND try to mate it up to the isolator it does not work. SO i need to find out what it is and if i need it. Anyone recognize this? http://imagehost.vendio.com/a/3827089/view/DSCF0859.JPG

4thgenceli
01-04-2013, 06:30 AM
It's definatly a motor mount bracket, but it looks nothing like the passenger side S-series mount. The passenger side has 3 staggered holes in an upside down triangle position. That is the rear transmission mount bracket.




You need the one in orange. You got the one in yellow.

http://www.ourlewisfamily.net/5sfe.jpg

Mr.Lojo
01-04-2013, 08:10 AM
Can you send again without the yellow box? I need the part numbers.

Mr.Lojo
01-09-2013, 10:23 AM
Ok this is weird. My mechanic is telling me that I need struts on all 4 corners. What do you all think?


From the desk of Mr.Lojo.

fussellbug
01-09-2013, 11:59 AM
well the car is 20 years old so if the struts have never been changed they probably need to be. I installed a set of Megan Racing coilovers on my GT-S, about $900 retail for the set.

Mr.Lojo
02-22-2013, 08:16 AM
Ok folks, I need some help. anyone know where i can actually get these two brackets?

12325-74080 LH Engine Mounting Bracket
12321-74180 Rear Engine Mounting Bracket

I am going to the Junk yards in north Las Vegas tomorrow afternoon. Last time most engines were gone and i was not looking for brackets. Who knows I might find what I need. Anyone locally want to come let me know.

fussellbug
02-22-2013, 11:49 AM
About a year ago I was able to buy the rear bracket through 1stToyotaParts but the left hand bracket I had to find in the pick-n-pull yard. Good luck.

Mr.Lojo
02-26-2013, 07:22 AM
https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/482789_10151445839051624_327665509_n.jpg

I found the brackets I needed! Now we just need to fit it in the car.

Mr.Lojo
09-10-2013, 11:30 PM
So now I need the right upper motor mount that attaches to the frame. Because the new engine (3SGE) wants to be forward of the mount in my 93 Toyota Celica ST. So does anyone have a 95-99 Celica they are parting out? Even better the mount part number?3357


From the desk of Mr.Lojo.