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View Full Version : How wide can we go?



Murgatroy
05-11-2012, 11:59 PM
I know that there are several of us that have broken from the norm.

I know John runs a custom size. Joey has enough rubber under his car for two, Ben when he was still around was pushing the limits, Josh has done the same on his ST185.

On a narrowbody rear with widebody front fenders, the offsets match, meaning no spacers.

Work with me.

17x8, what offset would I be looking at to fit 245/40/17 tires?

I currently run coilovers, so I am not concerned about suspension contact. Rolling the lip is not a problem.

I just want a lot of rubber under the car with a perfect, flush offset. No hellaflush or that crap, just right, similar to what Chaos has now, just better, with more rubber.

I am leaning toward a 17x8 35mm offset. Custom wheels from Diamond Racing Wheels. The fun thing though, since Chaos is a 4 lug with a Honda matching pattern, I have so many more choices in wheels...

Anyways, to the wheel tire gurus that know more than I, what numbers am I looking at?

celica9303
05-12-2012, 01:34 AM
How wide are your wheels now?

Murgatroy
05-12-2012, 02:12 AM
Right now I am running a 17x7 40ET wheel with 215/40/17 tires on them with a 5mm shim spacer in the back.

The Diamond Racing Wheels can be made in any size and spec I want. A 35mm offset would put me ~20mm out, which by my reckoning, would be about right with the widebody fenders.

However, rather than buying and test fitting and being wrong, I would like to see who has done this, and what they came up with so that I am as close to perfect when I pull the trigger.

Hookecho
05-12-2012, 02:43 AM
Why aren't you running wider tires on the wheels you have. You can easily run 245/40. Shit, I run 225/50 on 15x6.

Murgatroy
05-12-2012, 02:47 AM
It is possible to go wider, but with my current offset and width, if/when I get widebody fenders, it would be inset again.

Sure, I could go 225 now, or even 235, but if I am going to re-write the stance, why not get wheels to match what I am going for?

lalojamesliz
05-12-2012, 06:11 AM
I wanted to know how wide I can go on my all-trac also since its almost time for some new tires but I want different wheels also .I think I found that info somewhere but I forgot :(

KoreanJoey
05-12-2012, 07:37 AM
Well, if you've got the suspension, who cares? I ran 245/45R16s on 16x7.5 wheels and they fit... ish.

lalojamesliz
05-12-2012, 08:59 AM
Mabey I should just run wider tires like you, well the widest I can with my current rims at least. I don't know the with of my current wheels but the tires are 205/50?/16

METDeath
05-12-2012, 01:18 PM
Cappy runs 225/45/17 on his 17x8+35. However, he has wide body front fenders, which is where us narrow bodies get screwed since the fit in the rear when rolled.

There's too much involved for me to be doing this kind of research in the morning, but basically you need to

a) find what your space is between your fender and your strut tower

b) go wide body front fender (pm me)

c) find the widest tire you can stuff in, then do the math on the size/offset to fit it in there

d) if you buy star spec, go a width down, they run wide... wide enough that on my 17x7+40 a 215/40R17 rubs on some HARD turning.

Mafix
05-12-2012, 02:15 PM
just to throw a knife in this. not that it's a relavent one...
i'm will be going 275/30/15 all around on mine. eventually.

Murgatroy
05-12-2012, 02:34 PM
This is eyeballed with a tape measure, nothing definitive.

I have 10" on three corners, 9 1/2" on the last. I will pull my quarter for install on the third corner. Coilover to outer fender.

Rear: Inner clearance comes out to 3/4" from the coilover to tire, with a 1/4" spacer. I have yet to install my camber bolts, these will modify the fit increasing rear decreasing outer. Outer clearance is 1 1/4" from face of the tire to the outer edge of the fender. Again, the camber bolts will change this.

Front I have 1/2" clearance from the face of the tire to the edge of the fender. This is on the narrowbody fenders. I couldn't fit my arm in to measure suspension clearance. However, with an overall clearance of 10" I am assuming that I have some clearance.

Going off of these measurements, and the following results from a calculator, the 245/40/17 should be a snug fit with my current wheels.

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/4/6/seven_inch.jpg



However, if I want to step up to the widebody, the following should be good to get me where I need to be.


http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/4/6/eight_inch.jpg

allTRACway
05-12-2012, 06:34 PM
im wanting to got with 9in wide with a 40 side wall but drop the st185 2-3 inches

Luni
05-13-2012, 08:25 PM
Keep in mind Murg, the main problem with coilovers is you actually LOSE clearance alot of times. Reason being when you had a stock strut housing you had a spring perch that the tire went under. The strut housing wasnt as wide as a coil spring so you could fit more wheel/tire under there. After going coilovers, you actually have to move your tires OUT farther, which means you generally lose width because you can only cram so much under and still clear.

So, Id wager, unless you have custom camber plates made to allow more strut angle for clearance on the inside lip, you actually wont be able to run as wide as you think you can. Im stuck with the same issue in my MR2. I want to run 17x8s +35 with a 235 tire in the front, but unfortunately the best I can do without a bunch of custom work is a 225/40 and only one company makes those, so Im stuck running a 215 unless I want to do crazy stuff to get it all to fit.

Do update with all your findings though.

Numbchux
05-13-2012, 08:32 PM
_

Murgatroy
05-13-2012, 09:45 PM
I have 17x8 +48, 215/45, and 15mm spacers in the rear (making it effectively a +33) on my '92 ST. Obviously tire size isn't ideal, but even so with stock suspension, I had to roll the rear fenders a bit to clear. Without the spacers, the tires were wedged against the strut body (no issue with spring perch).

I have zero clearance issues in the front, even with stock fenders.


That said, +35-38 would probably be your best bet.
My current combo takes up more room than what you are running. Using the same calculator as above, using my set-up compared to yours, it states that you will be 7mm closer to the edge of the fender than I am, and create more clearance on the suspension side.





As to what Luni is saying, he is correct in a manner. However, my coilovers are already set higher than what would cause contact issues. We had this problem with initial install, and the coilovers set all the way low. I had to raise Chaos in the rear two inches (otherwise it would have been a five inch drop) so that the tire wouldn't contact the adjustment nuts. With it set all the way down, I was indeed contacting the coilover. And that was with the 205/40/17s. Before I even stepped up higher.

Once we adjusted the ride height for clearance issues ( and not to look like I was trying out for a Low Rider photo shoot) we no longer had issues.

Again, I don't have concrete measurements done with a caliper, but I do know that I have enough clearance to fit nearly two fingers between the strut and tire. That is an inch of clearance. This is before I install my camber correction bolts. Given the option to install top or bottom, I can control the clearance to fender (bottom) or suspension (top.)



As to rolling the fenders, with the body damage on the passenger quarter, I have already massaged that fender for clearance. I am not above cutting and folding to create more, front or rear. After all, Chaos is an experiment in functional. Not pretty or correct.

Ghost
05-14-2012, 12:28 AM
17x8 in the front and 17x9 in the back :D

The Captain
05-14-2012, 11:39 AM
Well, if you didn't move FARTHER away I could have let you try the vert wheels...

Murgatroy
05-14-2012, 04:04 PM
5x100 compared to 4x100. We could have set them to the mounting face though to measure.

KoreanJoey
05-14-2012, 09:33 PM
Well I'm not sure how well it'd work with the narrowbody but I'm running 17x9s on the GTS and 245/35R17s all around (didn't want to go taller but may in the future).

Mafix
05-19-2012, 02:35 AM
i wish i could get that tall of a tire to fit. although i think the more important factor in this is actually seeing what the contact patch of your tire is.
hence the huge jump for me from 225 nt01 all the way to hoosier 275. IIRC i'm gaining about an inch of contact patch. that's it. fyi guys. not all tires are the same. i know nitto and dunlop are usually much wider contact patch than the size says.

KoreanJoey
05-20-2012, 10:20 AM
Remember, the contact patch depends on the wheel width as well.

Mafix
05-21-2012, 05:17 PM
thanks, forgot to add that

prophet513
06-11-2012, 05:56 PM
So......whats happening with your current wheels?

Murgatroy
06-11-2012, 10:07 PM
Nothing at the time being.

The downside to having hobbies like I do is the expenses.

Luni gives me shit that I spend more money on guns than I do Chaos, and well, right now that is true.

I am trying to decide which project is next for Chaos, rebuilding the sound system, the wheels and tires or a custom big brake package.

prophet513
06-11-2012, 11:54 PM
Yeah I'm going to put money into the sound here eventually myself. A lot of which means resealing the rear window so the leaks stop...

Let me know if you get into a big brake setup. Thats what I'm looking for

KoreanJoey
06-12-2012, 02:48 AM
I'm not exactly sure what you guys need brake upgrades for...

prophet513
06-12-2012, 06:01 AM
Well yeah I really don't have much room to talk, my suspension/tires could be upped between now and braking power.

But when I get bigger wheels they'd look 100x better than the little stock setup!

KoreanJoey
06-12-2012, 06:34 AM
Bigger brakes usually equate to more weight. More unsprung weight = bad.

underscore
06-12-2012, 04:57 PM
I went with bigger brakes because I never want to hit a limit with the stock ones, espcially with nearly double the boost and 30mm wider tires than stock. And my front BBK only cost a bit more than just replacing everything up front would have cost.

T-spoon
06-13-2012, 03:26 PM
Bigger brakes usually equate to more weight. More unsprung weight = bad.

I need bigger brakes, and I think the unsprung weight ship has sailed in my case anyway :hehe:

Mafix
06-14-2012, 02:12 PM
my bigger brakes are lighter than my stock brakes.

KoreanJoey
06-14-2012, 07:42 PM
^That's the way to do it, if at all possible.

donteatbugs
06-29-2012, 10:40 AM
I ran a 17x8 +32 with a 235/40/17. It would rub the outer fender lip under hard cornering until i raiseed the coilovers up some. I think a 245 on a 8.5 would be perfect and not to hard to fit. A 9" might be tricky with the offsets and rubbing but you have it way easier than the mk2 mr2 in the front, trust me.

Mafix
06-29-2012, 03:13 PM
walka has 275 front and 285 rear tires on his mk2. looks stupid as hell but damn it corners!

donteatbugs
07-03-2012, 10:06 PM
I like fitting under the fender. I'm waiting on WB front fenders.

Mafix
07-05-2012, 03:59 AM
i agree bugs.

Demz
07-13-2012, 04:56 AM
I've been wondering with offset it would take to run a 17x9 on a widebody. I kind of want to run a 245/35/R17 or a 235/40/R17. Looks like I'm gonna have to get off my ass and measure some shit.

cms-gt4
07-13-2012, 08:17 PM
In the alltrac section there is a wide wheel thread. That will give you info for wheel sizes. I run a 17x9 38 et. You can run a 30et as well.

Demz
07-13-2012, 09:19 PM
Ok, here's my next question then. Do the hubs stick out the same distance on the All Tracs as the GT-Ss? As in, would there any be any issue in switching a rim/tire combo from an All Trac and put it on a GT-S?

KoreanJoey
07-14-2012, 04:04 PM
AFAIK they are the same.

cms-gt4
07-14-2012, 04:22 PM
Should be the same. If your not sure, just look up their track width with google. I have seen gts celicas with the same size wheels that alltrac owners use.

Murgatroy
09-18-2014, 09:09 PM
Let's revisit this.


I am looking at a set of 16x8 +38 Diamond Racing wheels.

245/45/16?

What all is available in this size? I see Toyo has several flavors, what would be the best? She might see some autocross, maybe. She won't see ~1000 miles a year, and most of that will be to the Dragon and back. She won't be a wet weather car, but on the same aspect, she might see rain at the Dragon, but that is not a priority.

Would the Proxes R888 be the tire I am looking for?

METDeath
09-19-2014, 03:11 AM
Should be okay, I know 8" wide with +35 offset is typical for the wide body cars.

HOWEVER!!!!

You will need to raise the car, roll the rear fenders, and run wide body front fenders.

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 03:39 AM
The rears are already rolled, and has/will have widebody front fenders.

I know that this wheel/tire size works on a narrowbody rear because someone who shall not be named ran this on his GT liftback.


Enkei Racing RP01 Limited Edition 16x8 +35mm offset.
Hankook Ventus RS2 Z212 245/45-16s.

Narrowbody 92 GT. GTS/Alltrac front fenders. No rubbing in front. No rubbing back after a roll. WILL NOT FIT ON STOCK STRUTS.



http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/3/6/0/1/DSC01503_981473.JPG

KoreanJoey
09-19-2014, 04:32 AM
I used to run 245/45R16s on a 16x7.5 +35 on a GT. Fit fine as far as I can remember... it's been a while though.

KoreanJoey
09-19-2014, 04:33 AM
Murg, I would recommend the R1Rs over the R888

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 04:42 AM
Not finding them in my size?

The closest I can find is 225/50(and 45)/16.

They are more affordable than the R888, I like that.

KoreanJoey
09-19-2014, 07:23 AM
Instead you could do the Bridgestone RE-11

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires.jsp?tireMake=Bridgestone&tireModel=Potenza+RE-11&partnum=445WR6RE11V2&vehicleSearch=false&fromCompare1=yes

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 11:39 AM
I was looking at those as a possibility. The reviews are pretty good.

I will honest, in the past I always bought the cheap tires and was fine with that. Now that I am not daily driving her, and the fact that she will need traction, I think I might go more expensive.

METDeath
09-19-2014, 01:40 PM
I'm not exactly sure what you guys need brake upgrades for...

For when we need to use the whoa pedal?

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 07:29 PM
Considering that Chaos came with like 10" discs up front and rear drums and she is now making more than double the horsepower... Yeah, she needs bigger brakes. Especially since I have found the limit of what is there on her from the factory.


But that isn't the question.

Shadowlife25
09-19-2014, 08:47 PM
He who shall not be named aside, that setup looked nice. The ride though, left much to be desired.

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 09:03 PM
I ain't after a smooth ride. I have several cars that are comfortable. One that is even comfortable and fast.

Chaos is, well, Chaos.

Was he on the coilovers at that point? Cause he is sitting a hair higher than I want to be.

Shadowlife25
09-19-2014, 09:08 PM
Yes, I helped install the full set of Megan fully adjustables on all 4 corners. The car is at the absolute maximum extension for those coil overs just so that things fit.

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 09:17 PM
That is fail, but it sits too high IMO.

With a little lower offset, they could tuck, run a little comber and you could come down an inch and a half and look better and ride better. Plus it wouldn't be as slammed as Chaos is now, which means that I might stop eating ball joints and have less bump steer.

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 09:21 PM
For example, the DRW come in +25, which would bring me in 10mm more than he was, with 2* front and rear and rolled fenders, I don't think there will be an issue at all, AND it won't look like those goofy ass Honda and VAG guys.

Shadowlife25
09-19-2014, 09:23 PM
True, just need to be mindful of the rear clearances. I think it may work better on your car seeing as you already know what is done to it.

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 09:27 PM
If he was running Megans on a narrowbody liftback, he has the exact same clearances as I do.

The difference is I am not opposed to take a mallet and beat the fenders out for clearance.

bloodMoney
09-19-2014, 09:42 PM
For example, the DRW come in +25, which would bring me in 10mm more than he was, with 2* front and rear and rolled fenders, I don't think there will be an issue at all, AND it won't look like those goofy ass Honda and VAG guys.

You've got it backwards Murgypoo... You'll need a +45 wheel to tuck the wheels another 10mm.

+25 will bring the outboard edge of the wheel further from the vehicle centerline (10mm more poke).

But you should be ok, I would think, with +35, -2* of camber, and some fender work. I'd remind you to use a heat gun, but then I think about paint and well.....

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 09:55 PM
I just realized that all the 'off the shelf' offsets they list are negative offset, not positive offset.

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 11:11 PM
225/45/16 Toyo R1Rs on a 16x8 with +35mm is looking to be a good bet that keeps me from raising the car.

245/45/16 Bridgstone RE11 on a 16x8 +35mm would fit, but it may take some massaging. This would be 30mm taller overall than my current set-up.

The price is about the same either or.

Murgatroy
09-19-2014, 11:30 PM
ESM Racing 001

16x8 5x100 +35mm

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/4/6/esm_001.jpg

KoreanJoey
09-20-2014, 12:17 AM
Honestly I would look at 17" wheels. There sooo many other options for tires.

Murgatroy
09-20-2014, 12:23 AM
That is probably what I will wind up doing. Since the Scionabaru runs the same bolt pattern, options have really opened up.

The reason I am looking at 16" tires is because that is the largest diameter the DRW wheels come in. And that is honestly what I really really want. I think it would fit the whole Rat Rod/Mad Max theme that Chaos has going on a lot better.

METDeath
09-20-2014, 12:32 AM
Yeah... just bite the bullet and go 17x8 and 225/45/17 or keep the 17x7 and get 215/40/17 again.

Murgatroy
09-20-2014, 12:35 AM
I can't keep the existing 17x7. I have a new bolt pattern of 5x100 with matching four wheel disc.

I have 7GC wheels, but I don't like them. Five spokes are wrong on an import.

METDeath
09-20-2014, 01:30 AM
I can't keep the existing 17x7. I have a new bolt pattern of 5x100 with matching four wheel disc.

I have 7GC wheels, but I don't like them. Five spokes are wrong on an import.

Oh yeah... too bad I already sold my 17x7s. Oh wait... Five spoke.

The Captain
09-20-2014, 02:07 AM
ESM Racing 001

16x8 5x100 +35mm

http://www.celicatech.com/gallery/files/1/4/6/esm_001.jpg
Damn! Why don't they make those in 17's! They look like OZ rally wheels.

Shadowlife25
09-20-2014, 02:30 AM
Damn! Why don't they make those in 17's! They look like OZ rally wheels.

I was thinking the same thing. Sweet wheels for sure.

Murgatroy
10-09-2014, 11:19 PM
Damn! Why don't they make those in 17's! They look like OZ rally wheels.


I was thinking the same thing. Sweet wheels for sure.


They do.

http://esmwheels.com/access/001wh-p-132.html

METDeath
10-10-2014, 02:12 AM
They do.

http://esmwheels.com/access/001wh-p-132.html

Why don't they make them in 17x9+30!

Luni
10-13-2014, 11:58 PM
You guys are high. Those wheels are ugly as fuck.

7th gen 5 spokes are sexy (they dont have a very good width/offset - they need spacers to flush).

Odd ducks I say.

METDeath
10-14-2014, 01:04 PM
You guys are high. Those wheels are ugly as fuck.

7th gen 5 spokes are sexy (they dont have a very good width/offset - they need spacers to flush).

Odd ducks I say.

You just don't appreciate our rally heritage! Then again... an MR2 fag wouldn't.

KoreanJoey
10-14-2014, 04:22 PM
7th gen 5 spokes... really? 16x6.5s? That's cute.

Murgatroy
10-14-2014, 08:02 PM
Yeah, I have never been a fan of the 7th Gen wheels. I know they are popular, but I never cared for them.

METDeath
10-14-2014, 11:31 PM
I liked my MSRs that I had, similar look as the 7th gen 16" rim, but 17x7+40. Served me well on the coupe... on the GTS, might as well go big since I can.

Murgatroy
10-14-2014, 11:43 PM
I really think I will go with 225/50/16s on 16x8 +12 DRW wheels.

For price reasons, and because, honestly I want the DRW wheels on Chaos. They fit her look the best of anything out there.

The Captain
10-15-2014, 12:56 AM
They do.

http://esmwheels.com/access/001wh-p-132.html

OMG!!! Put some OZ Racing circular decals on them and sha-wing! I love the rally look wheels.

They would be an absolute biotch to clean though.

METDeath
10-15-2014, 12:17 PM
OMG!!! Put some OZ Racing circular decals on them and sha-wing! I love the rally look wheels.

They would be an absolute biotch to clean though.

I'm sure you will find the time...

Let me know when I can get a good price on those Enkeis ;p

Mafix
10-17-2014, 11:30 PM
15x9.2 et25. they fit fine