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jdm_celica_gts
05-01-2012, 03:52 AM
When I order new bearings are they ready to install? Somebody told me you have to pack them with grease.
Does it just depend where I get them from?

CriScO
05-01-2012, 04:20 AM
No, they're sealed bearings. There is no way to pack them post-factory.

klapa
05-01-2012, 05:27 AM
I have had the same problem - and have new wheel bearings myself that I have not yet had installed.

They ARE sealed - and are not like the bearings on old American cars that need to be packed with grease. Also - they need to be pressed off of the hub (th old bearing) and back on the hub trhe new bearing). It is not an easy job - and comes with some "risk" as far as I understand it.

You should def have new seals for the hubs to be used when the new bearings are installed.

The "risk" is - as far as I have read here and other places as well - that sometimes the hubs are no good and the new bearings will just spin on them. There was one poster here that had that happen to him THREE times!

Another risk is removing the inner race from the hub after the bearing has been removed without scoring the surface of the hub.

I had a problem with my Alltrac - and called the local dealer for a quote on doing the bearings - they wanted $450.00 PER WHEEL! When I asked why it was so expensive the guy explained to me that they will only do new bearings if they do (replace) new hubs at the same time.

I solved my own problem by replacing the knuckle on the Alltrac with one from my GTS - along with the bearing.

Note that I did do some research during this process - the knuckles are the SAME P/N REGARDLESS of model (ST, GT, Alltrac) for a 5th GEN. I THINK - the hubs are the same for a GT, GTS, or Alltrac.

I KNOW the ABS and non-ABS knuckles are not the same -but do not know for sure if non-ABS axles will fit to an ABS knuckle - or vice-versa.

Hope this helps. (I still have my new bearings, waiting to be installed).

lamont
05-01-2012, 01:53 PM
You can save yourself a ton of money by removing the hubs yourself and taking them to a machine shop to have the old bearings pressed out and having the new bearings pressed in. I had my bearings done at a shop that specializes in big rigs near my house. I had the work done for roughly $200 and spend around $200 or so for new bearings and inner and outer races. The job is around 7.5 out of 10 to complete, so it's not easy but worth the savings. My car was up on jack stands for about a week and a half just waiting for parts from the dealership so it might be a good idea to order all your parts ahead of time, you'll save yourself the headache. You won't be able to find any shop that will do this cheaply and if you do I wouldn't trust them. This job is labor intensive and could easily run 15-20 hrs in labor alone and the going rate for labor is $80-$100+ per hr. it adds up fast. Also add another $100 to have your alignment done once the hubs are back on the car, not matter how straight you think it is it will be out of alignment after replacing the hubs.

CollapsedNut
05-01-2012, 11:28 PM
Also unless you have the right tool and a press, you will never get the inner bearing race out.

jdm_celica_gts
05-02-2012, 03:14 AM
So what all do I need for this job: inner and outer races and then bearings?

klapa
05-03-2012, 01:52 AM
So what all do I need for this job: inner and outer races and then bearings?

You get the races when you buy the bearings - they come with the bearings.

You also need the seals on the inner side of the hub - they are cheap and the old ones cannot be re-installed as generally speaking removing them ruins them.

It would not be a bad idea to also buy the "dust covers" - they are also cheap and still available.

Finally - make sure you find a machine shop that knows WTF they are doing for these type of bearings - not all of them do.

Keep in mind - that any knuckle from any (5th gen) GT, GTS, or Alltrac, could replace what you have as a "bolt on". So - if you need "low bucks" and expediency - a junkyard might be an option.

celica9303
05-03-2012, 02:09 AM
Is there a way to do them w/o destroying the abs speed sensor on the front? Those are expensive(already replaced one)

jdm_celica_gts
05-03-2012, 03:36 AM
What is the price difference between a shop putting in the bearings vs buying brand new hubs?

MrWOT
05-03-2012, 04:02 PM
The hub holds the bearing and can go out of round after lots of abuse. Or if you fry a bearing hard. I had to replace 2 hubs on my 165, so I feel for you.

KoreanJoey
05-04-2012, 12:30 AM
Is there a way to do them w/o destroying the abs speed sensor on the front? Those are expensive(already replaced one)

Just be careful removing the sensor from the spindle...

klapa
05-04-2012, 02:01 AM
What is the price difference between a shop putting in the bearings vs buying brand new hubs?

I would estimate - about ~ $400 to $700 - depending on where you get it done - the hubs are EXPENSIVE. The bearings and races themselves will cost about $75 or so (per wheel, I think) - the seals another $20. You'll need to buy those items either way you go.

The poster here that had all the problems - he finally had the hubs knurled, pressed the bearings on, and seemed to have no more problems. I think his problems were rather unique - not many would have such problems as that guy had.

I guess - it just depends on the level of damage you may have to your existing hubs. That is the "risk factor" - if they are good - then just buying the bearings and seals and having them installed you will be good to go. If they are bad - you waste the money you payed for the bearings as if they spin on the defective hub they will be ruined. Again - a good machine shop might detect that possibility BEFORE installing the new bearings on your old hubs. The bearing surface of the hub cannot be checked until the bearings (and inner race) has been removed from the hub.

My suggestion for "low-bucks" would be to first try to find a junkyard with a knuckle and hub compatible with your car - else buy the bearings, select a machine shop, use your existing hubs, and hope for the best. As I mentioned earlier - as far as I know - any knuckle/hub assembly from a GT, GTS, or Alltrac would do.

jdm_celica_gts
05-04-2012, 02:48 AM
Not too worried about price, I figured about 600

klapa
05-05-2012, 02:04 AM
Not too worried about price, I figured about 600

If that is the case - I would think that the lowest risk would be to have your local Toyota dealer replace the bearings - they would guarantee the work and use genuine OEM parts.

Maybe they would not require the hubs to be replaced, I think maybe that might vary from dealer to dealer.

Otherwise - just for your info - my local dealer service department quoted $900 for both wheels - bearings and hubs - not including alignment.

jdm_celica_gts
05-05-2012, 02:37 AM
Both wheels?
Or both front and back?

klapa
05-05-2012, 03:52 AM
Both wheels?
Or both front and back?

Both FRONT wheels only - the backs are totally different - new hubs and bearings for the FRONT - for $450 PER WHEEL. I have not priced the backs - and they are different for GT, GTS vs. Alltrac.

As I said - if I were you - there would be a "junkyard in my future". You can just pull a couple of knuckles (if you can find 'em) for maybe $30 each or so - they might even work for another 50K miles - and if they don't - you have not lost much and can still go to the dealer.

celica9303
05-06-2012, 03:33 AM
Just be careful removing the sensor from the spindle...

Easier said then done.....any suggestions? My last one I did(drivers side) was rusted in the spindle...

jdm_celica_gts
05-06-2012, 05:12 AM
Only reasonable junkyard (240 miles away) only has an 86 and 88 gt... don't think those hubs will work

klapa
05-06-2012, 07:55 PM
Easier said then done.....any suggestions? My last one I did(drivers side) was rusted in the spindle...

Yea - my experience was the same. I was VERY patient trying to get that sensor out of the knuckle - I used penetrating oil and tapped with a hammer over a space of two days - the darn plastic thing still broke after it was ~3/4 way out. I sort of kick myself - the way to do it (if exchanging knuckles) would be to simply snip and then patch the sensor wires and not try to take the thing out in the first place.....




Only reasonable junkyard (240 miles away) only has an 86 and 88 gt... don't think those hubs will work



Yea - after I suggested that alternative I searched around here in NC - only a few Celicas in junkyards - and NO ABS knuckles - only GT available - and those for $75 (complete with hubs and bearings).

I'm not sure if the non-ABS knuckle is compatible with the ABS axle (which is all you can get for an Alltrac, as far as I know). We would need the pro's (Joey or Jeremy) to weigh in on that one.

jdm_celica_gts
05-07-2012, 06:04 AM
So its the actual axle that has to have a the abs hub?
What if I was gonna remove the abs system?

klapa
05-10-2012, 03:00 AM
So its the actual axle that has to have a the abs hub?
What if I was gonna remove the abs system?

As I said - I am not sure about that one. The ABS axles are different in that they have a "toothed rotor" on them that fits inside the ABS knuckle to modulate the ABS wheel speed sensor. I am not sure if these axle bearing mating surfaces are any different than their non-ABS counterparts. Certainly - the actual axles are different between the GT-GTS, and the Alltrac - and between ABS and non-ABS.

Speaking about GT, GTS, ALLTRAC - I DO believe that at least based on part numbers - the hubs are the same - and the bearings are the same.

Whether or not the knuckles are simply different due to the drilled place for the speed sensor - or possibly other differences - I don't know that - at least not yet.

If you were to remove the ABS system - well - you would still have ABS axles. That would be fine unless you want to replace the knuckle with a non-ABS knuckle. Then - you would be in the same situation as I am now - If you have an Alltrac - I think the only replacement axles you could get WOULD be ABS axles - so best be sure they fit into non-ABS knuckles before "diving in".

Me - I am in the same situation as you for a year or so - I have my new bearings and races - and I consider "rolling the dice" either way.

If I could just find a passenger side ABS knuckle I would be a happy camper - but they are indeed very hard to find!

Maybe later this summer I will disassemble and measure both my ABS and non-ABS knuckles to help with my decision on which way to go.

Good Luck!