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klapa
04-15-2012, 11:05 PM
Yet I miss you guys and girls!

I HAVE stayed away for some time - so beg redemption - and also --- advice...

Should I buy this car??

http://fayetteville.craigslist.org/cto/2938827073.html

It is an MR2 with a 3SGTE - repainted - and with 179,000 miles. I am looking at $5.5K for it.

I have always wanted an MR2 - and I went to look at this one and drove it more than a little.

Second gear is rather "hard" to shift into - but there is no grinding - it is just hard to shift into it. Might this be a problem?

The temp gauge never even rose above min - even if I drove it for ~20 minutes - maybe a problem there?

The "new paint" is rather shitty - but the "new leather" while not stock - looks good.
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I have looked around - the nearest thing I can find for this price (less than the $7K asked for) is a "project".

I want just ONE project - and that would be my '93 GTS. I would either sell or part out my "rusty Alltrac" to compensate for this expenditure.

Could this possibly be a "reliable car"? I might need to also sell my DD ST to cover cash for the short term.

BTW- it is an original 3SGTE MR2 - what should I look out for?

The guy has receipts for a recent turbo rebuild, new brakes,and new interior pieces .

I have "read" that the scychros are weak on these transmissions - but no grinds from this one. Is a "hard shift" a symptom of bad synchros?

Car_Barn_Bandit
04-15-2012, 11:09 PM
Missed ya sir.

$5500 would be a great price on that little guy IMO. Great color, clean interior, no rust.

T-spoon
04-16-2012, 12:16 AM
Can't tell if worth it from pics. No rust? How do you know that? It's a "new paintjob" which always makes me go hmmmmmm right before selling (I should know, I bought a 91 MR2 with fresh paint that looked great, with a lot of hidden rust under the paint and on the undercarriage and engine bay that I didn't see at first).

It's a 91. Blech. You can get 93s for that price if you look around enough and are patient (I bought a 93 with similar mileage years ago for 4500 and it definitely was rust free). Being hard to shift can indicate synchro, and the 1-2 is usually the first you'll notice. Who rebuilt the turbo? How's compression? Leaks?

Temp gauge not moving could be a bad sender, bad gauge, or maybe stuck open thermostat.

No matter how nice of a turbo MR2 you find, it WILL be a project. Period. Dot.

celica9303
04-16-2012, 12:53 AM
Welcome back

klapa
04-16-2012, 01:36 AM
Can't tell if worth it from pics. No rust? How do you know that? It's a "new paintjob" which always makes me go hmmmmmm right before selling (I should know, I bought a 91 MR2 with fresh paint that looked great, with a lot of hidden rust under the paint and on the undercarriage and engine bay that I didn't see at first).

It is new paint - but a "fact'o'bake" job - bad quality. I looked underneath and in the two trunks - could not see any rust at all.




It's a 91. Blech. You can get 93s for that price if you look around enough and are patient (I bought a 93 with similar mileage years ago for 4500 and it definitely was rust free). Being hard to shift can indicate synchro, and the 1-2 is usually the first you'll notice. Who rebuilt the turbo? How's compression? Leaks?

Temp gauge not moving could be a bad sender, bad gauge, or maybe stuck open thermostat.



Yea - I know a '93 IS THE THING to get - but I sure ain't seen none of them for "$4,500" - not even much less than $15,000 these days. You are probably right - I should be patient.


No matter how nice of a turbo MR2 you find, it WILL be a project. Period. Dot.

Hopefully not as big of a project as this rusty Alltrac I have - I can deal with electrical and mechanical issues - but those two along with extreme rust are just too much. I can overcome the first two - but that last I can't do much about - and it renders all my other improvements "moot".

klapa
04-16-2012, 01:52 AM
Welcome back

Well - thanks - it is good to be back.

I will endeavor to be no so much of a "horses ass" as I might have been in the past.

There is much less pressure these days and I am better "grounded" - plus - I have my "meds" :)

4thgenceli
04-16-2012, 03:03 AM
Be careful on the pre-93 transmissions. The 93+ transmissions have dual (or dual cone?) synchros. Chances are it's just the 2nd gear synchros are out/going out and I've heard stories about it just takes everything out with it (dunno if it's true or not).

Good luck finding them though, they're quite hard to my understanding. I found a rebuild kit for my e153 transmission....but it was $1300 (ouch).

celica9303
04-16-2012, 03:21 AM
How bad is the trac?

klapa
04-16-2012, 04:19 AM
How bad is the trac?

For rust - it is pretty bad, It is a Massachusetts car - and so it is rusty underneath,

Rear fender well rust one one side predominately - and on the other side somewhat. One side of the front sway bar bushing bolts are riipped out due to rust.

The running gear is OK - and the rear diff is new. The electrical system is a total HACK - and in need of a total redo - especially including the engine-room harness. My engine room fuse boxes just flop around in there - with holes from "scuffing". That is only the "small part" of the electrical problems.

Vacuum hoses? You don't even want to think about it!

On the plus side - the engine and turbo are strong.

I think it is best to part that thing out for the following reasons:

The body is not good enough - without ALLOT of work and money - to make it worthwhile to put the money in everything else - I think I would be better off to part this thing out and use rthe money and parts on my '93 GTS - which is very much rust free.

Also - I have always "aspired" to an MR2 - I could save this strong JDM 3SGTE and E153 trans as a spare for such a car - and probably get more than half the money I have in this Alltrac out of the deal selling the rest.

I could then have my GTS Celica - and an MR2 - the only thing is that I would also need to sell my old trusty ST to fund all this - which is the LAST thing I want to do - because my little 4AFE ST has been MY FRIEND - forever - just running like a watch - with over 240K Miles - and this "little girl" is what gets me to work everyday.

Oh well - I see the "allure" of the MR2 and I AM attracted to it....... So I am willing to risk it all - just for the trill of it.

Aside from all that - as far as I think - an MR2 will beat the pants off an Alltrac - any day of the week - so long as you are on a paved road and not driving through Africa or the North. So Why Worry? Get an MR2 - _Dumby_ :)


Am I confused?

BabyBear
04-16-2012, 04:43 PM
LOL! New timing chain? I didn't know 3SGTE's had timing chains!

I personally wouldn't go for it. If you troll around on MR2OC you can find better deals than that. 5.5k for what looks to be a bone stock 91 thats probably been beaten to hell and back just doesn't seem worth it to me.

Lonestag
04-16-2012, 05:20 PM
MR2 would be fun, but it sounds like that one might keep popping up with issues that inhibit your immediate enjoyment of it.

Of course I think I have bought 5 or 6 cars that you could say the same thing about, so grain-o-salt with all that.

MCcelica
04-16-2012, 06:37 PM
Seeing as how I'd probably only be able to get 3 G's out of my 7th gen, there's no way in hell I'd do 5.5 for a car that is 9 years older with almost as many miles.

Luni
04-16-2012, 06:58 PM
I wouldnt pay that kind of money on a 91 MR2 with that many miles, and that few mods.

Youll be in that car a lot of hours and a couple more thousand dollars to get it where youd want it.

CollapsedNut
04-17-2012, 01:08 AM
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=37604&endYear=1995&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=55735008&startYear=1981&listingType=used&firstRecord=26&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=3000&listingId=320000112&Log=0

klapa
04-17-2012, 03:31 AM
http://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?zip=37604&endYear=1995&sortBy=derivedpriceASC&showcaseOwnerId=55735008&startYear=1981&listingType=used&firstRecord=26&transmissionCode=MAN&searchRadius=200&maxPrice=3000&listingId=320000112&Log=0

Yea - well that one is a 5S - I want a 3S.

I had already decided - after the initial advice - that car was not worth $5.5K - it was just DRIVING IT that made me WANT it.

Plus - I'd be paying for a "new shitty" paint job.

Actually - my mind was made up rather easily today - by the TAXMAN.




Seeing as how I'd probably only be able to get 3 G's out of my 7th gen, there's no way in hell I'd do 5.5 for a car that is 9 years older with almost as many miles.



Well - yes and no.

None of us (execpt for maybe Alltracman78) will ever get the money out of our cars when selling them.

I like 7th GENs - the look of the body and the cockpit - they have all the latest electronics for a Celica.

Yet they seem to have very limited engine options - and aside from that - they are all OBDII cars - you are forever at the mercy of whatever that computer "says" to get your inspection. I don't want to go there - I prefer a pre '97 car that I can mod and only need to sweat the "visual check" part of the inspection.

I could say the same as above for 6th GENS - except I don't like the way the body looks in those - though the cockpit is nicer than a 5th GEN - I'd never buy a car that I didn't like the looks of - and, at least for me - the 6th GEN got hit with an "ugly stick" in the "body department".




I wouldnt pay that kind of money on a 91 MR2 with that many miles, and that few mods.

Youll be in that car a lot of hours and a couple more thousand dollars to get it where youd want it.



Agreed - a '93 with an LSD would be best - but my budget is ~$5K or so. As near as I can tell - I couldn't get into a '93 for that kind of money unless it was a wreck or something.



Be careful on the pre-93 transmissions. The 93+ transmissions have dual (or dual cone?) synchros. Chances are it's just the 2nd gear synchros are out/going out and I've heard stories about it just takes everything out with it (dunno if it's true or not).

Good luck finding them though, they're quite hard to my understanding. I found a rebuild kit for my e153 transmission....but it was $1300 (ouch)



Well - that is interesting!

How hard is it to rebuild one of those transmissions? I mean - for a better than average home mechanic but not a professional?

I have rebuilt many old American car 3-speeds and 4-speeds - but don't really know much about these front wheel drive transmissions.

What would a Toyota dealer charge me for a rebuild of an E-153? (too much - I would guess)



Thanks everyone for all the advice - I HAVE DECIDED that I WILL HAVE and MR2 - it is just a matter of what and when.

I am already talking with a guy from CA from Mr2oc.

4thgenceli
04-17-2012, 03:46 AM
Let's just say I am by no means a mechanic by trade. I printed of the bgb pages for the transmission and had it stripped down in like 30 or 45 minutes. Reassembly is just as easy. Just need the right tools.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

Luni
04-17-2012, 05:14 AM
I thought about it and looked at mr2oc, and it seems mr2s are going back up in what people are asking for them. If this car is mechanically sound, doesnt leak oil, runs good, and drives good, isnt all wobbly, clunky, or wonky, then for 5500 dollars, Id say it COULD be a good deal. But like with ALL used old sportscars, it could also be a pain in the ass. So Ill answer all your questions and hope it helps you out a bit.

It is an MR2 with a 3SGTE - repainted - and with 179,000 miles. I am looking at $5.5K for it.

I have always wanted an MR2 - and I went to look at this one and drove it more than a little.

Second gear is rather "hard" to shift into - but there is no grinding - it is just hard to shift into it. Might this be a problem? See my response below

The temp gauge never even rose above min - even if I drove it for ~20 minutes - maybe a problem there? - If you want to test to see if the gauge or simply the sender is bad, just pull the wire off the sender from the coolant tree. The coolant tree is located on the driver side of the car on and the sensor you want is the 1 prong one that faces the rear of the car. Its the only single prong one in there. Pull the wire off the sensor and ground it with the key on. If the gauge shoots to hot, its your sender unit, and those are cheap and easy to replace. If the gauge doesnt shoot to hot, its a wiring issue or something in the gauge cluster. Id suspect its the sending unit.

The "new paint" is rather shitty - but the "new leather" while not stock - looks good. - Cool, thats a bonus.

I want just ONE project - and that would be my '93 GTS. I would either sell or part out my "rusty Alltrac" to compensate for this expenditure. - An MR2 is always going to be a project dude. I owned one that I daily drove for about 10 years, and if you DONT make it a project, the car will go to hell and youll end up playing catchup on it. Things are going to go wrong with it. Things WILL need to be replaced on it.

Could this possibly be a "reliable car"? I might need to also sell my DD ST to cover cash for the short term. - Sure, but before you could call it reliable, youd pretty much have to pull the engine and perform all maintenance items on it unless dude has proof that x was done on x date. Youd have to check all your suspension components, most likely replace most of it, bushings, tie rods, bearings, pull the fuel tank, change the fuel pump, etc. Then it MIGHT be reliable for another few years. And even without doing all that, it MIGHT be reliable, but it might just brake and nickel and dime your ass to death too.

BTW- it is an original 3SGTE MR2 - what should I look out for? - Oil Consumption, low compression, oil leaks, hesitation on boost, etc.

The guy has receipts for a recent turbo rebuild, new brakes,and new interior pieces. - Ok.

I have "read" that the scychros are weak on these transmissions - but no grinds from this one. Is a "hard shift" a symptom of bad synchros? - Yes, it can be. It can be an issue with the shifter cables, and it can also be an issue with the square shifter bushing that can go out. Id rather have hard shift than grindy, but the 91/92 transmissions suck either way.

Luni
04-17-2012, 05:15 AM
Let's just say I am by no means a mechanic by trade. I printed of the bgb pages for the transmission and had it stripped down in like 30 or 45 minutes. Reassembly is just as easy. Just need the right tools.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2

You cant rebuild the 91/92 gearset with the dual syncro stuff. So, hed have to get a new tranny if he wanted dual syncros.

Luni
04-17-2012, 05:17 AM
Seeing as how I'd probably only be able to get 3 G's out of my 7th gen, there's no way in hell I'd do 5.5 for a car that is 9 years older with almost as many miles.

You might be surprised about what the 7th gen is worth. Look on autotrader in your area and see if anyones selling them. Ill bet nobody is. Their prices are inflated too. Theres 2 in my area within 200 miles of me, and one of them has 80k miles for a 2001 and the guy wants 12,500. I paid 11,500 for mine back in 2006 with 52k on it.

MR2s are their own thing. Mileage means shit. If the car was in good shape, and mechanically sound, it would be worth 5500 dollars easy. I just dont know the condition of it. Id have to drive it and look at it.

MCcelica
04-17-2012, 05:32 AM
You might be surprised about what the 7th gen is worth. Look on autotrader in your area and see if anyones selling them. Ill bet nobody is. Their prices are inflated too. Theres 2 in my area within 200 miles of me, and one of them has 80k miles for a 2001 and the guy wants 12,500. I paid 11,500 for mine back in 2006 with 52k on it.

MR2s are their own thing. Mileage means shit. If the car was in good shape, and mechanically sound, it would be worth 5500 dollars easy. I just dont know the condition of it. Id have to drive it and look at it.

I searched KBB in my area. Problem is I'm over 206k with a transmission in need of being replaced, and I have some sort of sap on the driver side that I can't get off. So It would be about 3 G's I'd get out of it if I sold it tomorrow. I'm not complaining because I got it back in 07 and only paid 6,500 for it, which is about half as much as I should have.

Hipster Lawrence
04-17-2012, 06:57 PM
Is it a gts? You can get almost 3k for the engine alone. Just lie about the mileage. That's what all the junkyards and importers do...

UtahSleeper
04-17-2012, 07:05 PM
You might be surprised about what the 7th gen is worth. Look on autotrader in your area and see if anyones selling them. Ill bet nobody is. Their prices are inflated too. Theres 2 in my area within 200 miles of me, and one of them has 80k miles for a 2001 and the guy wants 12,500. I paid 11,500 for mine back in 2006 with 52k on it.

MR2s are their own thing. Mileage means shit. If the car was in good shape, and mechanically sound, it would be worth 5500 dollars easy. I just dont know the condition of it. Id have to drive it and look at it.

There are alot more then that for sale in SLC. The 7th gens seem to go from 3k to 10k on ksl. Guess it depends on seller. autotrader seems to have alot of people selling at higher prices, so I quit looking there awhile ago.

For MR2's, there is a 93 for 5999 in roy, UT. Just as a comparison. http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=0&nid=443&tab=list/view&ad=8217185

Or something like this http://www.ksl.com/index.php?sid=0&nid=443&tab=list/view&ad=8141376

I would say find some other posting sites in your area besides craigslist. Seems like the best deals on the cars we like come from the people that view it as just a car. And we know the people on the forums dont view it that way sometimes lol.

BabyBear
04-17-2012, 08:07 PM
You cant rebuild the 91/92 gearset with the dual syncro stuff. So, hed have to get a new tranny if he wanted dual syncros.

If he had the entire gear set from a 93+ it'd go right in. The casings are the same from what Ben(47mr2s) says.

klapa
04-18-2012, 02:24 AM
Thanks again for the advice.

I called the guy up today and told him (truthfully) that I would not be there tomorrow to pick up the car, because ole' "Uncle Sam" had made me temporarily "cash poor".

I looked at the links UtahSleeper was kind enough to provide - that first '93 has a body kit from hell - else it would be interesting - and it is '93 with the LSD. The second is not a turbo car - it has a 5S.

I am also looking at a car in CA on MR2oc.

TSpoon said it best I think - it "pays to be patient".

I would also say - that there are "projects" - and then there are "PROJECTS" - it just depends on one's definition of such. If I have a car that must be torn down to the bare essentials and sit in my driveway or garage for a year or more - that - to me - is a "PROJECT". If I have an old car that might be down for a week or so for maintenance/troubleshooting" - that is a "project".

I can only put up with one "PROJECT" - but maybe a couple of "projects" in tandem.

As far as the 7th GENS go - I don't think I have ever seen one for sale here for less than $5K asking price.

UtahSleeper
04-18-2012, 04:16 AM
Yea, I screwed up on the second mr2. Just saw it and posted.

Either way, wait for what you really want.

Luni
04-18-2012, 03:54 PM
If he had the entire gear set from a 93+ it'd go right in. The casings are the same from what Ben(47mr2s) says.

That would be correct yeah. Just making sure they understand, you cant just buy a rebuild kit for a 93+ trans, and use it to rebuild the 91.

alltracman78
04-18-2012, 05:25 PM
IMO a car is worth less if it's repainted [99% of the time]. The only thing worse than that is rust.
I'd rather deal with a body kit than repaint too.

Eric Barrera
04-19-2012, 02:36 AM
Welcome back Kalpa.

klapa
04-21-2012, 08:40 PM
Hey Eric!

Did you ever get that ST on the road yet?

Anyway - I've looked at a number of MR2s in addition to that first one.

Another local "project" here:

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/cto/2957157572.html

I'm going to look at this one next week.

The one I was looking at seems better as it has a new interior - even if it has "new shitty" paint. If I could beat the guy down another $1K to $4K or so - maybe that would work.

Yet I really think I should wait. Most of these cars are owned by "college kids" and might go down in price when it is time to return to school.

Aside from that - I would really rather get an original California or Arizona car as I would have a better feeling about the "rust factor".

Eric Barrera
04-21-2012, 09:02 PM
Lol, it's a GT. Yea, I finally got the damn thing running

CollapsedNut
04-23-2012, 10:42 PM
Heres you one. http://hickory.craigslist.org/cto/2936512998.html

Hookecho
04-24-2012, 01:14 AM
I once bought a Bronco with a shitty 351M painted that color.

Car_Barn_Bandit
04-24-2012, 09:48 PM
Did they have leftover Navy jet trainer paint on base? Jesus.

klapa
04-25-2012, 04:24 AM
Heres you one. http://hickory.craigslist.org/cto/2936512998.html

Yea - that's a good one- and I DO appreciate that!

I called that guy up - and asked some "pointed" questions.

He seemed fairly forthright as he did admit that there are some synchro problems - little grinds between 1st and 2nd and 2nd and 3rd.

Yet he also said that it has an LSD E153 - changed out.

I dunno - but this car is certainly worth a look.

I think I will go down there to check it out this week - this might be a good find.

Thanks for that link.

CollapsedNut
04-25-2012, 12:20 PM
Looked like a good deal, glad I could help.

Luni
04-25-2012, 11:48 PM
Really klapa? That car has about a 4000 dollar to fix problem. the paint job.

Urk. Why would someone want to paint a car that color?

Car_Barn_Bandit
04-25-2012, 11:59 PM
Really klapa? That car has about a 4000 dollar to fix problem. the paint job.

Urk. Why would someone want to paint a car that color?

Because they're not finished putting on decals for this:

http://www.maam.org/wwii/images/snj_ride.jpg

cklamp
04-26-2012, 12:09 AM
Psh 4000K... It's nothing 50$ of rattle cans can't fix Luni:) Some nice black primer and you're good to go:)

Later
C

Eric Barrera
04-26-2012, 01:38 AM
^ this wins hard

klapa
04-26-2012, 02:24 AM
Really klapa? That car has about a 4000 dollar to fix problem. the paint job.

Urk. Why would someone want to paint a car that color?

Well - in a way I will go along with that - this is another "re-paint".

I will add - the 88K miles is a bit hard to believe - I talked to the guy about this and the 88K miles is what is on the engine - the chassis has 120K miles (according to him).

Of course - these are "used cars" which are sort of like "girlfriends" - a "box of chocolates" - you never really know what you are getting until it is too late to back out.

Still - it IS within my budget - even post IRS - and at least deserves a look. While it is a "repaint" - the price is much lower than the other one I looked at.

I really found a perfect candidate on MR2oc - but it is north of Seattle - by the time I got it home it would cost me almost double.

So... We will see - "no hurry - no worry".

CollapsedNut
04-26-2012, 03:28 AM
I done good?

klapa
04-26-2012, 04:28 AM
I done good?

Yup.

I will go look at that car this weekend. it's just a trip to Charlotte - maybe 3-4 hours or so.

I wonder - about the "LSD" -

as far as I understand - an "LSD" IS a "limited slip differential" - this essentially means that it is (in the old parlance) "POSITRACTION".

so..... to check that - I would just need to jack the thing up - have somebody hold the wheel on one side - and try to turn the wheel on the other side?

Is there a better or easier way?

Hookecho
04-26-2012, 02:16 PM
Yeah, jack it up and get the tires off of the ground. Spin one of the tires. If the other tire spins in the same direction it is LSD. If it spins in the opposite direction it is open diff.

Luni
04-26-2012, 06:46 PM
That trick doesn't work on an e153 guys. There really isn't a way to test for LSD that doesn't involve removing the axles.

Hookecho
04-26-2012, 08:01 PM
Fail

klapa
04-27-2012, 02:20 AM
Well - anyway - I am still interested enough in this car to go down there to look at it and drive it.

I'll be going this Sunday.

klapa
04-30-2012, 12:54 AM
As it turns out - I did not go there today to look at that car.

The place is farther than I thought - like maybe 4.5 hrs. vs. the 3 hours I first figured - because there is no direct way to get there from here - and I had to go into work today for an hour or two anyway.

I had asked for some interior photo shots and got them - the interior needs seat recovering - which is OK for the price range - but the driver side door panel is trash.

I don't like the paint color - but if the paint job itself is good - I could get used to it.

I will at least still plan to look at it.

Still - there are a number of "items" hat just don't add up about this one - I'm thinking to wait and hope for a "back-to-school-special" this fall.

CollapsedNut
04-30-2012, 01:06 AM
If I had the dough Id like to go look at it atleast.

klapa
04-30-2012, 02:15 AM
If I had the dough Id like to go look at it atleast.

Yea - and I'm gonna do that - it just may be a good deal.

Talking to the guy - he sez the engine has 88K on it - and the chassis 120K. The trans is an LSD E193 out of a '93 that a friend of his had that was wrecked. Really no telling about any of that - yet he did say a compression test would be OK.

I have two pics of the engine bay - one with a chrome exhaust manifold and another with what seemed to be a red exhaust manifold - when I asked him about that - he said the one with the red manifold was when he was revving it in the driveway at 5K RPM. So - is this "normal"?

Still - if you look at the addy - you see that white Mr2 - so I asked about it. This one is "not for sale" - it has a blown engine - that's the story there.

So I really wonder - if the engine in the blue car for sale is so good - then why doesn't he put it in the white car?

Silly, suspicious, me. I don't want a "desk drawer machine" that has all the leftover parts from some other project - I already have one - my Alltrac.

CollapsedNut
04-30-2012, 02:21 AM
I figured the white one was his DD or something. That does make me suspicious.