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View Full Version : Using Manual Components from a 3SGE to a 3SFE



Zaluss
03-06-2012, 12:29 AM
I purchased an 87 Celica GTS a few months ago in decent condition. Due to some unforeseen events, Cylinder #3 had tested 60 compression and I ran out of time to use that car between my moving to Washington. I decided to finish the work put into my GT and keep the 3SFE for fuel economy/reliability since I've already invested money into a reman'd head cylinder, etc.

Anyway I still have a horrible rear main leak to deal with (1 drop every 2 seconds at idle) and at this point I'd like to do the manual swap in a few weeks time. Instead of using the 3SGE transmission I'm going to purchase a 3SFE manual tranny locally however I was curious about the rest of the components. So my questions are...

1) Are the clutch pedals, shift linkage, and shifter assembly interchangable between the 3SGE and 3SFE?
2) What items CAN I pull from the 3SGE vs what should I be finding in the yard to complete the swap?
3) Is there any benefit to using the 3SGE transmission? I noticed that the starter location is different, would this be a problem?

Thanks.

CollapsedNut
03-06-2012, 12:36 AM
Linkages are all the same, so no problem there.
You really shouldn't need much except the clutch master cylinder, slave cylinder, the metal lines for both. Clutches are the same. The mount should be the same but I'm not 100% on that.
I don't think the starter is anything to worry about either. It should be a pretty straight forward swap.

Zaluss
03-06-2012, 12:40 AM
Awesome. What about the flywheel?

CollapsedNut
03-06-2012, 12:43 AM
Only difference is the GE uses like 8 bolts for the crank, where the FE uses 6. If you are using a 3sfe engine, use a 3sfe flywheel.

CollapsedNut
03-06-2012, 12:45 AM
I may have a 3sfe flywheel and a like new clutch if you're interested. I'll need to check my storage building for the flywheel(may have sold it for weight), but I know I have the clutch. I can get pics this coming weekend.

CriScO
03-06-2012, 12:59 AM
Hold on to the GE axles.

Zaluss
03-06-2012, 01:09 AM
That was my next question. The 3SFE axels arent compatible with the S53 transmission? Damn they are only a few thousand miles old.

CriScO
03-06-2012, 01:55 AM
Actually, they're both the S53. The 3S-FE had a modified version. You'll be able to use one axle. The 3S-FE version's center shaft isn't removable, where on all other versions it's attached to one of the axles. I always forget which side, but I think it's the right.

Zaluss
03-06-2012, 02:02 AM
It may be better at this point to source the 3SFE transmission. Another forum explained that I may have issues with the 3SFE exhaust manifold from the GE starter.

In essence, I would need the GE flywheel, starter, and transmission plus the GE exhaust manifold/downpipe.

CollapsedNut
03-06-2012, 02:05 AM
I have a camry 5S header that will fix that problem too. LMAO buy my stuff!

Zaluss
03-06-2012, 02:10 AM
I have a camry 5S header that will fix that problem too. LMAO buy my stuff!

LOL! Give me a quote on that clutch shipped to 98418. As far as the flywheel goes, I assume the auto and the manual flywheel are the same? I also already have a 3SGE header and downpipe but that means I'd have to have the car towed to an exhaust shop to connect it all up. Don't want to do that at the moment.

CollapsedNut
03-06-2012, 02:12 AM
I'll get you some pics this weekend and let you say if you want it. I'm sure I can give you a good deal on it tho, like under $80 dependent on shipping cost.

KoreanJoey
03-06-2012, 03:06 PM
LOL! Give me a quote on that clutch shipped to 98418. As far as the flywheel goes, I assume the auto and the manual flywheel are the same? I also already have a 3SGE header and downpipe but that means I'd have to have the car towed to an exhaust shop to connect it all up. Don't want to do that at the moment.

Automatics don't have flywheels. The have flex plates.

Automatic axles are usually not compatible with the manual transmission and vice versa.

marc_4G
03-14-2012, 05:31 AM
hey zaluss, i just remembered your thread over on st162, i forgot the mention that the auto's front mount is different than the manual. auto box uses a square weird mount, while the manual box uses the regular circle shaped one. also, if you have a 6 bolt crank, you are stuck with using the FE flywheel. this means you can't use the GE box as the starter gear is too big. (gen1 ge is roughly 10mm smaller than FE, Gen2/3/4 GE, GTE, RAV4 flywheels), and you can't use the FE starter on the GE box either as it's on the wrong side.
so you'll either have to source a FE box or a s54 (5s-fe) box or e154 (v6 box)...at least for all of those boxes you don't have to muck with the exhaust

this is all unless you have a 91+ FE swapped in (8 bolt flywheel, can easily change to the smaller GE flywheel..)

Zaluss
03-14-2012, 05:58 AM
Thanks for the clarification. I was aware of the transmission mount being different so I was going to take the one off the GE assuming this would work. I'm not sure whether I have a 6 bolt or 8 bolt crank. The car is the original 89 FE so most likely 6 bolt. Can you explain further about the GE box starter being on the wrong side? If I swap out the FE exhaust manifold and downpipe with the GE wouldn't that fix the issue of the starter? If not I can always get a s54 box locally for $150-200. I don't have a picture reference of the GE vs the FE box. I believe Stig at st162 said that the GE box is just a customized version of the FE box with the FE starter location blocked off and relocated for the exhaust manifold.

marc_4G
03-14-2012, 08:21 AM
it's not just the location blocked off and relocated. the GE flywheel is different size AND the GE starter gear is too big for the FE flywheel!
basically the problem of use a GE trans for an FE motor is this:
GE trans only works with GE starter > GE starter gear is too big for FE flywheel > FE flywheel is what you can only use for your motor (6 bolt crank)

S53 (GE) up top, S54 (5s-fe) bottom (same starter hole as S53 (FE))
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/_MrMagoo/Cars/Toyota%20Celica/162%20TEMS/Gearbox/P1160013.jpg
this is a GE flywheel to a FE starter/box (flywheel too small), you'd be looking at the opposite problem of flywheel too big if you use the GE box/starter to a FE flywheel
http://i493.photobucket.com/albums/rr292/_MrMagoo/Cars/Toyota%20Celica/162%20TEMS/Gearbox/P1140006-1.jpg

i hope that clears it up, anyone else have other suggestions? another method is to drill a hole for the FE starter to go in the GE box. some have done it and you can leave your exhaust alone too.

4thgenceli
03-14-2012, 04:07 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I was aware of the transmission mount being different so I was going to take the one off the GE assuming this would work.

While you're at it you may as well do the rear mount to. If you're salvaging the mounts from Stormtrooper you'll want to get both (as they're both the SpeedSource poly mount inserts).

Zaluss
03-14-2012, 05:24 PM
You don't say? Excellent.

Sent from my SGH-I777 using Tapatalk

Zaluss
03-19-2012, 07:41 AM
Few more questions if you guys don't mind.

I ordered my new clutch set from Rockauto.com and I've been looking at flywheels and I've been trying to decide what to do. If I pull a flywheel from the junkyard I would need to resurface it right? Or I could buy an aftermarket one from Summit for $50 (Zoom Performance) or from Autozone for about the same.

Also I'm not sure if the bolts are included as they didn't specify. The only bolt set I could find was the ARP set which is about $50 also. Since this is a DD I'm not looking for performance so I figured I wouldn't need to spend the extra $ on ARP flywheel bolts.

I'll most likely be doing this without a lift so I wanted some clarification on whether I should look into a transmission jack or if I can balance the tranny on a standard jack. I'll be using air tools and the car on jack stands.

4thgenceli
03-19-2012, 04:11 PM
Few more questions if you guys don't mind.

I ordered my new clutch set from Rockauto.com and I've been looking at flywheels and I've been trying to decide what to do. If I pull a flywheel from the junkyard I would need to resurface it right? Or I could buy an aftermarket one from Summit for $50 (Zoom Performance) or from Autozone for about the same.

Also I'm not sure if the bolts are included as they didn't specify. The only bolt set I could find was the ARP set which is about $50 also. Since this is a DD I'm not looking for performance so I figured I wouldn't need to spend the extra $ on ARP flywheel bolts.

I'll most likely be doing this without a lift so I wanted some clarification on whether I should look into a transmission jack or if I can balance the tranny on a standard jack. I'll be using air tools and the car on jack stands.



Usually the bolts are not included when you purchase a new flywheel. If a new OEM one is about $50, just buy it. There really isn't a need for an aftermarket/performance flywheel if everything else is stock. I would buy the ARP flywheel bolts. Personally, I have ARP head studs and flywheel bolts on my swap. Also pick up some red loctite to put on the flywheel bolt threads. Then run down to Toyota and buy new pressure plate bolts and use blue loctite to install them.


You could balance the transmission on a jack, but a tranny jack would make it much easier. Also you'd want something to support the engine when you pull the transmission off. I just bought a strut engine bar. It sits on the strut towers and supports the engine. It was $70.

Zaluss
03-19-2012, 06:02 PM
I was going to just support the engine with a jackstand underneath the oil pan on a block of wood. Also does this mean I need to buy both new flywheel bolts and pressure plate bolts? Because my car has neither coming from an automatic I assume.

I was looking at the transmission jack from harbor freight for $70. Any experience there?