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UtahSleeper
02-07-2012, 04:31 AM
So, a couple months ago I sold my alltrac (pretty much a shell) to the PO. Not a big deal cause I did not want an alltrac project that big.

Well, shortly after there was an alltrac for sale locally that was quickly dropping in price and it was more in the realm of the alltrac I wanted. Checked it out twice over the years (it has passed through a few hands) and at the price tag of 800, I couldn't pass it up.

The known issues:
Harness has been hacked to shit.
Lots of iffy wiring for remote start.
Dinged up front fender.
Possibly bad ECU.
HORRIBLE RIMS!! (Hope to replace with alloy stockers off a 6th gen)

Possibly upsides:
Significantly more complete then my last trac.
Supposed rebuilt motor.
Extra ebay turbo (maybe for my rolla)
Stock turbo with no shaft play.
Recently cleaned and tested injectors.
Aftermarket radiator.

The immediate plans:
Get it running in the next few months. May take out the harness and try and fix it, depending on what I find, or hopefully locate an unmolested harness. I want to have the car running and legal by next winter. No upgrades unless I have to replace something anyway.

The long term:
Mount my 3sge manifold and get front mount.
Reupholster interior (has seat covers right now).
Paint.
AEM, MS3 or another standalone.

Well, here is what I got for my money.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/007.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/008.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/010.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/011.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/012.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/013.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/014.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/015.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/016.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/017.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/018.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/019.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/020.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/021.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/022.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/023.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-02-05/024.JPG

CollapsedNut
02-07-2012, 01:16 PM
All I can think is better you than me

The Captain
02-07-2012, 03:03 PM
The ultra rare trunk mount air to air/water to air compound remote intercooler!!


Good luck! I'm actually starting to dig 4th gen Alltracs.

UtahSleeper
02-07-2012, 05:38 PM
Thanks. I love the st165's and just glad to get one in more manageable shape. I would like to get one in great shape to start, but I know I am too cheap and impatient for that lol.

And damn right. Best mod you can do relocating your multiple IC's! lol

black_celicagti16
02-07-2012, 08:14 PM
Good luck with the celica man!

UtahSleeper
02-14-2012, 11:19 PM
Small update even before I start working on it.

I should have an unmolested harness and spare ECU in the near future for 150.

So, if all goes well I will have a running alltrac for 1k (850 for car and tow).

I know more will come up, but that will make me happy. :)

UtahSleeper
03-13-2012, 08:07 PM
Another small update.

I pushed her fat ass into the garage on Saturday and removed the hood. My goal now is to start removing the hacked harness she has and try to remove all of the interior wiring work that has been done to her. Seems like there has been a few switches added for who knows what, as well as the remote start. Hope to have the interior wiring cleaned up in the next week or 2 and back to "stock".

Also lots of other little issues to address from brief poking:
EGR appears to be removed....but not block off plate
Vacuum lines look shot
Couple missing valve cover screws
Clutch slave does not have line securely screwed in
Starter is not securely mounted
Oil return line is not secured
Crappy hose clamps used on fuel lines

I think I am going to have to spend some time browsing pics here and the BGB to get this put back together the right way.

T-spoon
03-14-2012, 01:15 AM
Awesome, I spy a FRAM!

UtahSleeper
03-18-2012, 05:17 AM
So, I have started poking around the car and removing items that will be cleaned/replaced/repaired. This car has had alot of attempted upgrades and such and it has just become a cluster of an interior and engine bay. So, my goal is to strip it down to stock and also remove anything I think can be. So, here are some pics of what I have seen and done.

How the engine bay looked at the start of my pulling.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/001.JPG

Part of the hacked harness and other mess.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/002.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/004.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/005.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/006.JPG

Found this and learned it was someones half ass attempt to have a working heater, I assume.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/008.JPG

Wiring and random switches.....
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/009.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/010.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/011.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/012.JPG

Random pics of what various previous owners have done.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/013.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/014.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/017.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/018.JPG

I believe these were "crossovers" for the system that use to be in.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/020.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/021.JPG

After the engine harness and fuel evap has been removed.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/022.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/023.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/024.JPG

The PS line that I cant seem to get bolted down. Think a previous owner rerouted it a bit when they got the radiator and decided against trying to secure it.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/025.JPG

Attempts at cleaning up the PS area. The return hose seems to press against the timing belt right now. Not sure if it was just pushed into a bad spot.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/026.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/028.JPG

Driver side, under dash wiring havoc. Remote start was the biggest mess there.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/030.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/031.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/033.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/034.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/036.JPG

And all the crap removed. Most items had the splice type plugs.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/038.JPG

Here is the remote start/alarm in a pile :)
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/041.JPG

And how she sits, waiting for me to get her going.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-03-17/040.JPG

CriScO
03-18-2012, 06:24 AM
That remote start/alarm pile looks sadly familiar...

UtahSleeper
03-18-2012, 09:22 AM
You have one on your car before?

CriScO
03-18-2012, 04:32 PM
The hatchback had the same type of mess under the dash from a previous owner.

l0ch0w
03-18-2012, 05:42 PM
I feel your pain... I have a rats nest of wires waiting to be redone in my garage too... Its that job ive been avoiding that im sure is going to bite me in the ass if I dont get it done...

UtahSleeper
03-18-2012, 08:11 PM
Yea, I decided to try and take the wiring on first cause I knew if I got the car running without touching it, it would cause me havoc lol. When a car is running I dont want to start doing too much that will change that.

CollapsedNut
03-18-2012, 09:17 PM
That looks fun

thatonedude
03-19-2012, 02:25 AM
looks like uve got a project on ur hand ill like to see it when your done

UtahSleeper
04-10-2012, 02:32 AM
Small update:

Decided I liked the indiglo lights, but couldn't stand the way the controls were mounted. So I used one previously done hole for brightness knob and opened another hacked hole for the blue/green switch. A little sloppy since I didn't think through, but I need a new under dash piece anyway.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-04-09/014.JPG

Got the slightly cleaned up harness installed......mostly.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-04-09/016.JPG

Found these when searching through the pile of stuff that was crammed in this car. Any ideas?
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-04-09/017.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-04-09/018.JPG

Got the injectors out of a ziplock and put new o-rings and such on. Tried to install but then realized the FP reg and cold start injectors did not have gaskets installed.........not really surprised with how many odds and ends have been missing lol.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-04-09/020.JPG

So, next plan of attack is buy a shit load of orings and little washer gasket type things. Really hoping to try and start her by the end of the month.

CollapsedNut
04-10-2012, 02:50 AM
Looks like you have a crankshaft seal set including oil pump seal and some valve seals with camshaft seal.
How much for the rear main(if it is indeed a rear main, measure the ID and OD)?
Or how much for both them bags, I'm a seal/gasket whore.

crymson
04-10-2012, 03:42 AM
I feel for your wiring mess. You manage to get it sorted out yet?

UtahSleeper
05-14-2012, 02:18 AM
Small update.

Have most hoses connected and some parts cleaned up. Also removed the lower cross member to gain access to the TVIS, grounds and such.

What needs to be done before trying to start:
Finish vacuum hoses
Finish connecting grounds
Get/Install EGR block offs. Probably from KO unless I can find cheaper
Install intercooler
Install radiator (need to decide if I want to use the stock fan, or get a slim)
Get a small battery

UtahSleeper
05-28-2012, 04:09 AM
So, just had a decent set back in my eye's. Was reassembling fiona and got underneath the car to hook up the final plugs and vacuum lines when I noticed something. The PO had did such a half ass job putting the intake back on that half of the intake gasket was fucking hanging out!! So now to try and fix this I will have to remove just about everything I have reassembled! Total buzz kill. I thought I was a week away from trying to start her and now I have to strip it all back down just to address that crap.

So, now this has me wondering if I should say fuck it, remove the center feed intake manifold and install my side feed GE. If I do that the car will take longer to get back on the road since I will need to get a FMIC and pipping. What would you guys suggest? Fix or do the upgrade?

Also, can you remove the north/south crossmember with no ill effects coming from the motor just resting on the east/west mounts?

Thanks.

CollapsedNut
05-29-2012, 11:44 PM
As long as your side mounts aren't busted to hell it will be fine. I would just run with the top mount till you get it running and know if you have any other issues.

UtahSleeper
07-15-2012, 08:39 AM
Well, another small set back. The damn alum radiator has a nice hole in it. May try and JB weld it or something.......

UtahSleeper
07-22-2012, 01:43 AM
Have the radiator in with no apparent leaks so far. Now to do the following:

Get a distribution block for connecting everything to a battery.
New negative battery cable.
New belt or 3sfe alt tensioner.

Unfortunately this will take a couple weeks as I have other shit to focus on in the immediate future.

UtahSleeper
08-13-2012, 04:13 AM
Well, status update. She runs with crap gas in the tank. Not starting her again till I remove the old gas and use fresh stuff, plus use new oil on her. The oil in her seems fresh, but after the scare with the fram filter, I want to just make sure all the simple shit is good.

What I know so far:
Motor seem a bit noisey, but not rod knock. May be valve chatter or something else.
Need to replace a small piece of PS hose at the reservoir.
Need to reconnect the to support rods for the intake on the back of the motor.
Need to replace a weird T adapter on one of the heater core hoses.
Still need to replace passenger side front wheel bearing.
I still have overly blingy rims on her and that sucks lol.

How the engine currently sits.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-08-12/029.JPG

As she sits, waiting to be rode hard....
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-08-12/030.JPG

Old hood that I am going to try and use for making a good vent out of FG.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-08-12/031.JPG

Uncut hood
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-08-12/032.JPG

How the interior stands. Still need to figure out how I am going to handle audio and the mediocre carpet.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-08-12/033.JPG

Luni
08-13-2012, 06:47 AM
I thought your engine was bad and you were using a 185 engine.

UtahSleeper
08-13-2012, 04:28 PM
That was the previous alltrac :) This one was unknown. Bought it unrunning in January. You can tell the motor was rebuilt with how clean the engine head is in the VC and the oil passages at the oil filter, but there is valve chatter and both PO's of this car have said they think the rebuild was done poorly. Not sure if either of them really know since neither of them actually drove the car much. It seemed like it just sat most of the time while they would do random shit to it.

Luni
08-13-2012, 05:14 PM
Got any use for a Gen2 thats in good condition (just needs some seals)?

UtahSleeper
08-14-2012, 05:13 AM
Not sure yet. Hopefully I will have a better understanding of my motor shape in the next month. If this motor was as badly rebuilt as rumored, I very well could need a motor.........

How is your motor coming?

UtahSleeper
08-23-2012, 04:34 PM
Well, small update.

I can start her consistently. Motor is still noisey and I started it yesterday and it had no oil pressure after sitting for a week, after an oil change. Added oil to the filter and where the filter mounts. Seems to have fixed the issue, but will check it today.

She has an oil leak and seems substantial. I see some liquid on the bottom of the cat mount, but a shit load on the ground under the N/S crossmember. May try an additive to taper that off. The more I dig into this engine, the more it seems like the motor will need to be replaced. My guess is the original rebuild that was done was done poorly.

Also one other issue, it does not go through normal warm up. It starts quickly and sits at 1k then will lower down to almost 500. And when trying to rev the motor, some times it will stumble. So, lots of little shit to try and troubleshoot.

UtahSleeper
08-25-2012, 06:53 AM
And more bad news for this engine. It now has 3 oil leaks and I tried to drive it with horrible results. No power and alot of stuttering. May try my other ecu, but since the CEL comes on, I think this ECU is fine. This motor may just be at the point of no return with the oil issues and previous rebuild issue.

UtahSleeper
10-18-2012, 05:38 PM
Well, small update.

Over the last month or so I have done the following:
Removed the sunroof and sanded off all the rust spots. All rust was surface, so I sprayed converter after grinding off, primed and painted black. Just rattle can as the car will get a full repaint after Milla(Corolla) has her paint done.

Replaced the fuel filter and tried to investigate what appears to be a heavy PS leak. Believe its my PS pump, but could be rack too. I will investigate it next year as the car is about to get put back together and parked outside under a car cover for the winter. Again, Milla gets the best treatment, so she gets the garage so I can finish installing some bushings, cut springs and maybe install the ebay turbo I have, as well as other little tasks. Trying to milk the last bit of life from her motor before rebuild.

Also, after some reading, I think my wastegate gets stuck open after hitting boost. The few times I have been able to hit boost has been good, but right after there is no boost till after she sits for awhile.

On thge agenda if winter isnt too bad:
Replace the coolant temp sensor.
If driving issues continue, check the AMF/MAF and TPS.
Get some 6th gen celi wheels.
Hopefully next year put together a more trust worthy motor.

Pics of current status to come later, not like much has changed lol.

UtahSleeper
10-27-2012, 02:59 AM
So, I have a winter project for my trac. I am going to make a fiberglass hood vent over the turbo. The plan will be to make it a bolt on until I get the ambition to try and make a fiberglass hood.

Here is the practice canvas:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/001.JPG

The stuff to build/play with:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/002.JPG

Ideas. Remember, these pieces will be triangles and connected lol. Just trying to figure out the path I want to take with looks.

Option 1:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/003.JPG

Option 2:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/004.JPG

Option 3:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/005.JPG

Option 4:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/007.JPG

Option 5:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/008.JPG

Option 6:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2012-10-26/009.JPG

UtahSleeper
01-09-2013, 07:28 AM
Well, small update.

-I have made to skeletons for a vent and screwed both up lol. Need to find a better way to make the base.
-She developed a rod or something knock when I was trying to troubleshoot her rev issue. She is officially parked till I get a different motor to put in her.
-For xmas I got an engine stand and hoist. That will help with the above.
-Also got some 15" steelies off a camry, so just need to find some cheap tires to throw on her for now, then I can sell the bling rims.

I hope to be able to bring her back into the garage in March/April. I am hoping that is when the snow will go away and I will be willing to park the Corolla outside.

UtahSleeper
01-23-2013, 02:33 AM
Well, this is a small update for Fiona.

Plans for this upcoming year are a motor and paint. I may try and Megasquirt the motor and if I do I will replace the dashboard with a tablet and make the gauge cluster with Tunerstudio. Also, speakers in the doors and a new setup for the rear, maybe behind the panels in the backseat area like so many other cars have.

So, on the immediate shit.

First, this is the idea I am currently going with for the vent. Opinions?
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-01-22/004.JPG

Second, for Xmas I got an engine hoist and stand :) Should make rreplacing the motor possible later........when I assemble it.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-01-22/005.JPG

Third, here are the steelies I got for her. 15's, which will make snow tires prices more manageable.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-01-22/006.JPG

And last, her sad state. She is regulated to the snow till the weather dries up and I can park my Corolla outside.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-01-22/008.JPG

UtahSleeper
04-07-2013, 02:33 AM
Well, time for a small update as I am prepping to try my first rebuild/build/whatever on an engine.

To start, here is the vent I am working on. Still needs alot of trimming, sanding and brainstorming for mounting. Right now I am waiting for all the FG resin to cure.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-06/001.JPG

Here she sits, looking all sexy, still waiting for her turn.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-06/003.JPG

So, to start. I picked up an old 3sge in trade for a blown MR2 motor. The vague story on this motor is it has been sitting for 2 decades-ish. The PO said the swapped a GTE head on it for performance. Judging by the shape of the head and block, he never tried it.

The head looks great, but I imagine the rust is not good lol.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-06/004.JPG

Judging by the channels, I think this is a GTE head.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-06/005.JPG

This is the block. The outside is really clean. When I flipped it upside down it seemed alot of dried out debri/rust bits fell out.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-06/006.JPG

And judging by this, the guy swapped the head, but didn't bother cleaning much up. The story I heard is this motor was low mileage. I imagine I have no real way to tell.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-06/007.JPG

So, my next step is to take more apart and see what the condition is. I would like to limit my costs as I want to just get the motor road worthy and not have leaks. While rebuilding I hope to gather the bits to go MS3.

UtahSleeper
04-09-2013, 03:15 AM
So, I took the oil pan off and this is what I found.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-08/001.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-08/002.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-08/004.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-04-08/005.JPG

So, mostly looks like surface rust. There appears to also be no movement of the connecting rods, so I am assuming this may mean I am okay to remove, have shit cleaned, and reassemble. Is this correct?

l0ch0w
04-09-2013, 03:41 AM
Replace the bearings, and don't let the rods/pistons get out of order. They are bore matched and balanced in that order from the factory. Use oem bearings and bgb installation instructions for getting the correct size. there are like 3 std bearing sizes no other mfgr does this...

Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk 2

UtahSleeper
06-17-2013, 05:24 PM
I am keeping them in order. I took a box and made dividers to keep the crank caps(I think thats what they are called) and pistons in order.

The bearings were in great shape, so I am hoping I can get everything cleaned with new rings and bearings and reinstall. Still need to address the head though.

UtahSleeper
11-03-2013, 02:43 AM
Well, she has made it into the garage.

Here is a video displaying what I believe to be rod knock lol.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ueGZxFteoeg&feature=youtu.be

And here is where she sits waiting for me to have the balls to pull the engine.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-11-02/004.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-11-02/005.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2013-11-02/006.JPG

Facime
11-03-2013, 04:57 AM
yep thats rod knock.

You have referred several times to getting a replacement engine but there is no good reason not to rebuild what you have so long as nothing is damaged beyond machinability.

Its always better to start with s aknown quantity and rebuild than to just throw a new motor at it when you have no idea of the condition of said replacement. Rebuilding a bottom end is easy and good experience. With a decent manual you should be able to feel confident that your rebuild is fresh and ready to build a motor around.

UtahSleeper
11-03-2013, 05:08 AM
yep thats rod knock.

You have referred several times to getting a replacement engine but there is no good reason not to rebuild what you have so long as nothing is damaged beyond machinability.

Its always better to start with s aknown quantity and rebuild than to just throw a new motor at it when you have no idea of the condition of said replacement. Rebuilding a bottom end is easy and good experience. With a decent manual you should be able to feel confident that your rebuild is fresh and ready to build a motor around.

I should have been more clear. My plan for most of the time has been to build a new motor. I ended up getting a 3sge from someone that has been sitting for years/decade. I dismantled everything and have it organized waiting for me to get to a machine shop. I want to get the pistons/block/everything cleaned and then I will be trying to rebuild it. The pistons and block are all in great shape from what I can tell, so cleaning and then new bearings and all should be well. I never really planned on using the motor in the car cause it was rebuilt by an owner in 2004 and from the other owners, it sounds like this car has had maybe 1k for miles put on it. With such low miles and now rod knock, I am going to guess it was a poor rebuild and who knows what else they did.

There was a couple deals I had stumbled across before that almost swayed me to just buy a motor and try to drop it in, but money or time stopped it. Right now I am just scared lol. Never rebuilt a motor so this will be a first. I have a book for the alltrac, so I should have the specs I need there.

Thanks for the input and if you have any other advice I am all ears.

Facime
11-03-2013, 07:55 PM
I honestly dont know the diference (specifically in the bottom end) between a GE and GTE aside from the pistons. The GTE may have oil squirters (cools the pistons), different rods, or other minor differences. Maybe someone with more 3S experience can chime in here, but I was trying to encourage you to rebuild the motor that is in the car. Rod knock from a poor rebuild, or maybe from being run dry alot (so few miles without a proper break in), should not disuade you from rebuilding that motor. In fact it may be quite saveable for leass work. I would expect a simple hone and re-ring the pistons you have should take care of the cylinders, then have the crank turned .010 or .025 under to accept standard sized bearings (save you the hassle of finding numbered toyota bearings anyway). I would expect your oil pump and timing components could be re-used as well.

At that point your machine shop costs should be below $500 and you will really only need a gasket kit and a set of bearings. Depending what was done before, you may not need any head work either, though I would at least re-seal it.

The place to start is to get the motor out and do an autopsy on it. The knock source should be plainly evident at that point. You can then plastigage all your bearing clearances to see where you stand bearing-wise. Then take the stripped block and assembled cylinder head to a reputable shop and have them mic everything out. A good shop will make recommendations but you may not have to do everything. Also, if the are truely interchangable you will have a backup set of parts from the GE you can use.


Dont be afraid of the bottom end rebuild. To be perfectly honest its the easiest part of engine work. I mean honestly, its all the external stuff thats confusing and tedious. Engine internals are easy by comparison.




Replace the bearings, and don't let the rods/pistons get out of order. They are bore matched and balanced in that order from the factory. Use oem bearings and bgb installation instructions for getting the correct size. there are like 3 std bearing sizes no other mfgr does this...

Thats only true if the motor wasnt actually rebuilt before. If its been bored and the crank turned then all that is out the window. Standard over/under sized pistons and bearings will be the only option. Most times, even if it hasnt been rebuilt, you end having to machine anyway to get everything on an even playing field.

UtahSleeper
11-04-2013, 05:28 PM
I honestly dont know the diference (specifically in the bottom end) between a GE and GTE aside from the pistons. The GTE may have oil squirters (cools the pistons), different rods, or other minor differences.

All the research and people I have talked to have determined that the only difference with the blocks is the oil squirters. Crank, pistons, etc are all the same. Heads are a little different though.

And I will probably take the old motor out before doing anything machine shop wise. I was just thinking that it may have been better to use a motor that had not developed rod knock since I plan to reuse the stock pistons. Is this not really an issue?

Facime
11-04-2013, 10:33 PM
nope, shouldnt be an issue at all, but you need to tear it down to be sure. Most times the knock comes from a failed bearing. Either its been oil starved and hammered or has spun in its landing, resulting in TOO much clearance and thus "knocks" as the rod bangs against the crank on every rotation. Most times this means that the damage is confined to the crank and or rod. Rods can "oblong" and/or crank journals can oval. Usually the crank can be saved with machine work. Or, if you stopped running it soon enough, there may be no damage that a set of bearings wont fix.


If the rods are truely the same between the GE and the GTE then you already have spares to use. You would just need to move one over to the piston you want to use. Like I said, if they rebuilt it and used new pistons, you may find they are perfectly fine. Or they may have been overheated/oil starved or put in the wrong size bores and been damaged...you wont know until you take it apart. You will only be able to reuse pistons if the bores they came out of are savable with just a deglazing. If either of the blocks need reboring, you will need a set of pistons to match. I wouldnt marry yourself to the idea that getting new pistons is a problem. You can get a master kit with pistons and pins, oil pump, water pump, and timing components for under $400


Again, the best course of action is to take it all apart and then take stock of what you have between the two motors that can reused/machined for the least amount of money and give you the best result.

side note: at least with the GTE you know its (probably) not cracked anywhere. the GE you have is a completely unknown quantity at this point.

UtahSleeper
11-05-2013, 01:19 AM
Yea, I will take it apart and just see. I know the spare block has no glazing, so I can keep that in mind for later. It still had the hone markings.

I hope I can get the motor removed in the next month or so.

UtahSleeper
02-04-2014, 05:48 AM
Here are some random pics to show that I have accomplished a little bit since the last update.

The empty engine bay.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/001.JPG

General pic of her current progress.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/004.JPG

The engine before any real dismantling happened.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/008.JPG

Inside the exhaust port.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/011.JPG

Goodies for future use. I need to learn to weld cause my Alltrac(Fiona) and Corolla(Milla) need some exhaust work.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/017.JPG

Dismantling in progress.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/020.JPG

A bunch of the parts.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/023.JPG

More dismantling.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/025.JPG

And the trans, all by its self.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-03/027.JPG

My next plan is to remove the clutch and flywheel, check their condition, and then get the engine on the stand for the full tear down to see where the knock started.

Hoping I have time this week or weekend to do that.

UtahSleeper
02-18-2014, 08:58 AM
Well, I dismantled more and here is what I saw.

The flywheel in all its glory lol. Still see the resurfacing marks.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/001.JPG

The clutch. One of the PO's told me it had some performance clutch in it. Not really sure how to tell. Also, does this appear to still have enough meat to even consider reusing?
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/002.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/003.JPG

The motor on the stand.........SO EXCITING!!!
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/004.JPG

Chunks in the oil screen. Always a sign of a motor in top shape :)
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/010.JPG

Here is the overall motor. I tried to move all 4 connecting rods at the crank and all 4 move slightly. I thought normally when you have a rod issue(rod knock), it's 1 rod... Assuming that the belief that the rods should have no play at the crank.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/011.JPG

Lots of sludge and debris in the oil pan.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/012.JPG

The head, which looks to be in great shape.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/013.JPG

I assume this is a cam part number(88360).
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/015.JPG

And a question. I have a head from a spare motor and the head that came off my alltrac. The cams have one difference on the surface. The alltrac head has protruded metal around the cam at the back of both cams. The other head has a a metal notch protruded in the same area. Are they the same cams or are they something else?

Alltrac head:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/018.JPG

Spare head:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-17/019.JPG

UtahSleeper
02-27-2014, 03:03 AM
So, took the pistons out. Piston 4 has markings on the top from metal making it there it seems. Plus it seems like one of the PO's marked the pistons with scrapping. Figure I need new pistons or use the pistons from the 3sge that I dismantled. Here is the shape of the pistons and crank. All 4 pistons had movement at the crank, so it was pretty mangled.

In order of front to back.

Piston 1:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/001.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/007.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/011.JPG

Piston 2:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/002.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/008.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/012.JPG

Piston 3:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/003.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/009.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/014.JPG

Piston 4:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/004.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/010.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-02-26/015.JPG

So, judging by the crank, would you say this should probably be reuseable after a machine shop visit?

I was honestly surprised not to see more carnage with all the crap in the oil pickup and pan.

So, now I need to start contacting machine shops and get quotes. My plan, theoretically, get a full rebuild kit, reuse the 3sge piston, 5s oil pump(anything needed to make it work) and look into cleaning up one of the heads. My goal is to try and do everything right, but obviously want to save on costs.

The goal is for a stock rebuild. The only performance stuff I plan for later is bolt on(exhaust, front mount, etc).

Facime
02-27-2014, 06:35 PM
Lets be careful we are using the correct terminology for clarity sake. You use the word pistons but display the bearings in the rods and rod caps. The piston is the round thing on top ;)

Pistons are not interchangable between GE and GTE due to compression differences. Rods/caps are. Your rods are fine either way, they were protected by the bearings (whats left of them). I would like to see some pictures of the bores and of the sides (skirts) of the pistons. Again, only a machine shop will be able to tell you if your pistons and bores are enough within spec to be re-used (deglaze and re-ring) or to far past it to re-use (Bore/hone w/new pistons).

That crankshaft if pretty mangled but only a machine shop will be able to tell you if they can make it usable again. May have to go .20 under to get it fully smooth again.

UtahSleeper
02-27-2014, 09:35 PM
Lets be careful we are using the correct terminology for clarity sake. You use the word pistons but display the bearings in the rods and rod caps. The piston is the round thing on top ;)

Pistons are not interchangable between GE and GTE due to compression differences. Rods/caps are. Your rods are fine either way, they were protected by the bearings (whats left of them). I would like to see some pictures of the bores and of the sides (skirts) of the pistons. Again, only a machine shop will be able to tell you if your pistons and bores are enough within spec to be re-used (deglaze and re-ring) or to far past it to re-use (Bore/hone w/new pistons).

That crankshaft if pretty mangled but only a machine shop will be able to tell you if they can make it usable again. May have to go .20 under to get it fully smooth again.


I will get more pics later. I was just using the term piston as a summary of where it came from on the block...........not a lot of logic in naming lol.

On the pistons, everything I have read says the GE pistons are the same..........or maybe not the same, but still useable since the CR diff is .3, if I recall correctly. Is this wrong?

* Apparently it is a .7 difference. I will be going standalone on this motor, so could I use this as a small upgrade? Or just get a thicker HG to offset it? I know I can buy new pistons for a decent price on ebay, but just trying to evaluate costs and where I can safely trim.

Facime
02-28-2014, 07:54 AM
The GE pistons should be 9.2:1 CR and the GTE pistons should be 8.5:1. That may not seem like much but when running anything over stock boost you are going to have to pay close attention to detonation. If it were me, Id plan less compression more boost rather than higher compression less boost. Maybe thats just me.

Its too early to worry about it though at this point. You need to have your bores checked and measured against both sets of pistons to see if they are even within tollerance. If not you need new pistons anyway. Personally I would just plan for new pistons. They arent very expensive anyway when purchased as part of a kit.

UtahSleeper
09-16-2014, 05:07 AM
Well, small update. She is about to go into build mode now that my Corolla is down for an extended period of time. Things that are being done or about to be done are as follows:

-Block and crank was taken to machine shop today (Thank you Mr Turrara for reference)
-Need to order rebuild items(pistons, gaskets, etc)
-Need front wheel bearings
-Install the Aeroform kit :)
-Finish cleaning the engine bay
-Exhaust(Since PO made it all one piece)

Facime
09-16-2014, 05:14 AM
if you are having the engine bored, any good machine shop would require the pistons to match the bores to. One does not simply bore ".0X0 over" and assume the pistons you order will fit.

UtahSleeper
09-16-2014, 05:01 PM
if you are having the engine bored, any good machine shop would require the pistons to match the bores to. One does not simply bore ".0X0 over" and assume the pistons you order will fit.

Yea, I haven't ordered pistons or bearings yet. He needs the rods first to see what bearings to buy there. He also needs to measure the cylinders before I order anything so I can know what size to order so he can then use them to match. Hoping to be able to use a stock size, or .020 over. But I will probably know more at the end of the week.

UtahSleeper
09-17-2014, 07:07 PM
Well, turned out my crank was toast on my original motor. Instead of trying to find a good one and keep using a motor that is the first gen, I decided to get a 4th gen motor :)

So, making a note for myself and posting links to ST215/3sgte related stuff.

http://www.caldina.org/Documents/CaldinaElectrical.pdf

Replacement parts: http://www.primemr2.com/

Facime
09-17-2014, 07:56 PM
How was the crank "toast" (what was so far out of spec that it couldn't be machined)

So are you planning on buying a front clip?

UtahSleeper
09-17-2014, 09:04 PM
How was the crank "toast" (what was so far out of spec that it couldn't be machined)

So are you planning on buying a front clip?

It could be machined, but would have been so far out of spec that I would not have been able to find bearings for it. He had spit off numbers and from the research I had done, I believed him. All the rebuild kits I had seen were std, .010 and and .020 on the rod(I think), my current crank would have had to gone to .040.

And no front clip. All the research I have done on this motor make it out to be a straight drop into the engine bay(move accessories over) and fix the wiring to work with the guages and such.

I may have bit off more then I can chew, but it sounds like the performance, for what I want, will be worth it when done.

Facime
09-17-2014, 09:57 PM
So probably the crank had been turned before and the latest failure scored it beyond that. That's rather rare unless the bearings completely fail or "spin". I had really back knock in the bottom of a GM 2.8 once and when I took it apart I found one of the rod bearings halves had rotated and doubled up on the other one, leaving the crank to bounce off the rod cap with every revolution. Yeah...that crank (and the rod as well) was done.


Ive usually opted for rebuilding what I have in favor of swaps. My feeling with a swap is that you just don't know what you are getting into, and could end up with a motor that is already on its last legs. Rebuilding what I have is a "known quantity". I know, lots of people have had success with swaps. Im just leary of them myself.

If you find a decent swap setup, it would be smart to tear into it a bit before installing it. Drop the pan, and pull the mains and rod caps and mic everything. If you keep it all in order and are careful about being clean, you should be able to simply re-install-retorque everything without issue if everything is good. This will also give you an opportunity to see the cylinder walls from below to judge their condition without taking the head off.

Then re-seal everything and use a new timing set/water pump/oil pump.

Its worth the peace of mind, ihmo.

UtahSleeper
09-26-2014, 09:46 PM
Facime: Thanks for the input. I agree with the piece of mind, but on this motors case, I plan on mostly straight installing it. If I get the harness back quick enough, the engine may still have a warranty and I dont want to chance screwing that up. If the warranty is up, well, the worst case is I learn to rebuild this motor lol. In all honesty, I just want to get the motor in and I know if I start opening stuff up I will lose motivation, so I am taking the gamble that my time wont be wasted and all is in decent shape :) I probably would open it up if I had any confidence with doing any internal motor work. Never rebuilt a motor or replaced anything internally.

Well, small update.

Ordered the engine Thursday, got it Wednesday. Very quick shipping!!!
No over abundance of oil in the intake, but a thin, oily layer on the turbo intake and outlet.
Think the timing belt had been replaced, or is just in really good shape.
Aside from dirt and grime, the exterior looks great.
The IC has seen WAY better days. May have to try and find a new one, but the current should work for initial starting.

So, I filled out and printed off an order form for mr220 and hope to package and ship my harness this weekend or early next week.

While waiting for that I will try and do the following:
Stiffen up the east/west mounts.
Figure out how to mount the passenger side mount.
Get my flywheel/clutch and transmission mounted(I assume I need an alignment tool).
Rebuild and install the original PS pump as I dont want to redo the hoses to use the new pump.

Anything I am missing?

And I know alot of people like to crack open a used motor, and I understand why, but I am planning to just drop this motor in and hope it runs well enough :) Whats the worst that happens, its toast? I wont truly know this till after the warranty is probably up anyway lol.

I will try and post pictures later.

Facime
09-27-2014, 01:48 AM
well, if you put that motor in without at least changing the timing belt and water pump, I believe you are making a HUGE MISTAKE. That doesn't require a huge amount of work while the motor is on the stand, but its a MAJOR pain in the ass once in the car.


This is what is called "penny wise, pound foolish". Shortcuts rarely work out in the world of automotive repair.



that's my .02

UtahSleeper
09-27-2014, 03:35 AM
well, if you put that motor in without at least changing the timing belt and water pump, I believe you are making a HUGE MISTAKE. That doesn't require a huge amount of work while the motor is on the stand, but its a MAJOR pain in the ass once in the car.


This is what is called "penny wise, pound foolish". Shortcuts rarely work out in the world of automotive repair.



that's my .02

Should have said, I do plan on doing that part lol. Timing belts are alot easier with the motor sitting on a pallete in my garage lol. I was mostly addressing the removing the oil pan and checking the internals.

Facime
09-27-2014, 06:05 AM
If you have the know how and skill to change a timing belt, you can open up a bottom end. I would at least like to see whats in the bottom of the pan and then reseal it with FIPG, even if I didn't check the bearings. Looking in the bottom of the pan if you see what looks like copper flakes you will know you have at least one bearing that's bad. No copper flakes, and nothing loose inside, = good to go.

UtahSleeper
10-09-2014, 04:38 AM
So, here is the motor, partially dismantled. Still need to pull the plugs and see what the condition was of the motor.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-10-08/001.JPG

Here is the pressure line connected to the new PS pump that came with the motor. Just wanted to verify it would be usable.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-10-08/005.JPG

Here are the passenger side mounts. Left is 215, right is 165. Should bolt on fine.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-10-08/007.JPG

Here is the IC.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-10-08/008.JPG

In all its glory :/ Plan to replace it after everything is installed and running.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-10-08/009.JPG

And the car as she currently sits.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-10-08/010.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-10-08/011.JPG

4thgenceli
10-09-2014, 02:23 PM
Reminder for me later...

Where did you get the motor from?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

UtahSleeper
10-09-2014, 04:43 PM
Reminder for me later...

Where did you get the motor from?

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk

The seller is japan_star_motor on eBay. No bad reviews that I could see and they were quick to reply to my messages prior to purchase.

The motor is as pictured(minus the underside of the IC) and I received the motor in less then a week. If it starts and runs then I will view it as a win.

4thgenceli
10-09-2014, 04:48 PM
Here's my thoughts on it.

I too did the same (ST215) swap. I got mine from a distributor that was more on the west coast (Venus Auto up in Sacramento). I tore it down and did a simple re-build on it. New OEM head gasket, water pump, all gaskets, timing belt, tensioner, thermostat, etc. I tore the oil pan off to inspect the bottom end. I didn't take off the caps and mic anything out but just did a visual. If something would of been loose or didn't look right I would of tore the bottom apart and refreshed the whole motor.

Personally I'd at least tear the pan off to look at it and then make a call from there. My motor ran great, pulled strong and gave me no issues at all (well, except for when the turbo seized but that's another story).

The stock ST215 TMIC won't fit. You'll need to cut the hood for airflow & for fitment. I can't find the picture I have of it but I put the TMIC on and closed the hood. I would of needed to take out a good chunk of the hood skin & frame to get it to fit. Here's a shot of the st215 in the st16x chassis. I had to remove some of the hood heat shield and notch out a bit of the frame support for the throttle to move freely.

http://ourlewisfamily.net/content/Jasmine/normal_random_engine_shot.JPG

UtahSleeper
10-09-2014, 05:54 PM
I will remove the pan to atleast look at the insides. Its something to do while the harness is getting worked on.

Also, I do plan on cutting the hood for clearance and making a scoop for it. Figure I will worry about it when everything is installed and running though, since no need for the hood to be installed till then lol.

Facime
10-09-2014, 07:09 PM
might I recommend not removing the substructure, but instead cutting through the surface and the substructure together and raising a section to create a raised cowl and scoop.

I did that to several supra hoods and they turned out great. Here are a couple pictures to give you some ideas.


The stock supra cowl bump is about 3/4" tall. I raised the whole section about 1.25" to give a total cowl height of 2" on this particular hood.

https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/t1.0-9/10665154_770979086274811_3312617385490010656_n.jpg ?oh=e97df2f4e5197c448e3efb960bf71dfc&oe=54C0DB05


https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-9/10610852_770979149608138_7108782596294720068_n.jpg ?oh=bf517e806b8c292fa72c5d49da2040b4&oe=54C7B561&__gda__=1422686219_9e9a9a440a9377ae4e369d6b83e1f59 9



https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/10672354_770979146274805_1959726229565060058_n.jpg ?oh=6af7f350f0f41689f9299bf015d1819e&oe=54B019A2



https://scontent-b-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xap1/v/l/t1.0-9/10689978_770978989608154_4416033803627758168_n.jpg ?oh=efbbdab9aecc5cfb3e8b8a747c31f963&oe=54CA3969



On this hood I did a similar cowl lift but also did a reverse front vent:

https://scontent-a-sea.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xfa1/v/t1.0-9/10710783_770978976274822_8363083093267358070_n.jpg ?oh=aed1808200cd0827080d72724829e38f&oe=54B36E4B

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/406169_417597218279668_180370194_n.jpg?oh=dafccf87 6d4e7a792dc9d5a8e57b1d6e&oe=54B664B2&__gda__=1422052195_04e178192e054acce14464ccd8c6ac8 5

Murgatroy
10-09-2014, 08:00 PM
https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xaf1/v/t1.0-9/406169_417597218279668_180370194_n.jpg?oh=dafccf87 6d4e7a792dc9d5a8e57b1d6e&oe=54B664B2&__gda__=1422052195_04e178192e054acce14464ccd8c6ac8 5

That's ugly and you are a doody-head.














:fapping:

UtahSleeper
10-10-2014, 05:39 AM
You dont have an example of work like that done to make a scoop? Too me I just envision it not looking right with have an opening lift like that.....but most scoops I see are stock.

UtahSleeper
10-10-2014, 05:25 PM
While I will be looking for examples of making a scoop similar to the vents and cowls shown here, these are some of the ideas I have for bolt on scoops if I go that route.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hood-scoop-universal-mustang-style-bolt-on-23W20L-/231330508818?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35dc5f7012&vxp=mtr

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Universal-Bolt-On-Fiberglass-Hood-Scoop-/111477206399?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item19f48f2d7f&vxp=mtr

Mind you, these are just the first couple examples I could find. Still have time to research, but want to figure it out before I get the car running.

Facime
10-12-2014, 02:58 AM
yeah, a bolt on scoop is fine too. I don't see a problem with using something like that. I would just try to minimize cutting the structure of the hood to as little as possible and/or trying it back in via extensions like I showed on the hoods I did.

It might not be that big of a deal on a short hood like that on the celica, but on the supra I was concerned about getting flex and vibration at speed.

richee3
10-15-2014, 06:32 PM
Over the last few years, I've wanted to pick up an ST185. But more recently, I'm more drawn to the ST165... I'll be keeping an eye on this thread. :)

UtahSleeper
10-20-2014, 06:32 PM
Well, small update.

-I have sent off the my harness to have it modified to work in the st165.
-The stock flywheel bolts are too small for the motor(the threaded portion). Need to see what is needed here. Flywheel seems to line up properly.

UtahSleeper
11-12-2014, 04:49 AM
Well, time for the next update.

For this install I have had to:
-Get flywheel bolts from a 2nd gen 3sgte as the 1st gen bolts were too skinny.
-Mount the motor mount bracket from the first gen motor on the 4th gen.

So, rather uneventful lol.

I got the harness back and I have the transmission mounted. While scary, the missle silo method of install worked nicely. I have a few other odds and ends to do then hope to have the motor sitting in the engine bay.

I received the harness from wiregap. Seems to be good work, but I will know more as I install it. The only thing I am unsure about is there are 3 wires, labeled, that are just sealed off. I am only concerned cause one says tach so not sure if I have to figure that out on my own. I probably just have to read a little more.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-11-11/005.JPG

And here is the old trans sitting comfortably with his new lover.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-11-11/004.JPG

UtahSleeper
12-01-2014, 07:04 PM
Well, small update time......kind of. I need to take some pics.

I have the engine fully installed and it turns over via key. Haven't tried to start the car yet as I need an air filter and to get various vacuum lines connected.

Hope to try and start her this week and then start ironing out all the odds and ends.

Here is one pic I took after I finally got everything assembled. She is sitting next to my latest acquisition :)
http://www.mutsoftware.com/FRS/AlltracandFRS.jpg

Luni
12-01-2014, 10:51 PM
Start it! No use in connecting all that other shit if it wont start.

I just looped all my vacuum lines except my map sensor and brake booster. I started mine without any charge piping. No use installing that shit if it somethings fucked up.

Get it primed up, and START IT! Fuck an air filter and vacuum lines!

UtahSleeper
12-01-2014, 11:45 PM
May do that shit tonight anyway, but want to get some grounds atleast installed first since I have NONE going from the engine to body.

Half the reason for getting it hooked up yesterday was so I could get the motor turned over a few times after I turned it by hand.

Luni
12-01-2014, 11:46 PM
You definitely need grounds, but thats it. Just get it grounded, connect the major vacuum lines to their sources, and loop everything else (so there isnt a leak, or it will idle high)

Then get it up to temp and see if it leaks :)

UtahSleeper
12-01-2014, 11:57 PM
Guess I know what I am doing tonight lol.

UtahSleeper
12-02-2014, 02:08 AM
HOORAY!!!! Did as you said and ran into issues. Couldn't hear the FP kick on. Jumped +B and Fp on the diag box and then I heard the pump kick on when I turned the car on. I emailed mr220v/wiregap to see what I need to do to resolve this.

Motor starts and idled decently. There were some noises separate from the engine I will have to look at, but she idled fairly well and quietly for having no exhaust. Hooray!!!!

Luni
12-02-2014, 10:43 PM
I didnt think Gen4s even had that diag box...

UtahSleeper
12-02-2014, 10:47 PM
They didn't, but wiregap put it in there from the 1st gen harness and it worked like the old did. I am glad it was there so I could troubleshoot a little easier.

Luni
12-02-2014, 11:34 PM
You should have had the OBD2 port wired in so you could just get one of those bluetooth obd2 scanner modules and real time datalog...

alltracman78
12-03-2014, 12:03 AM
OBDII won't work with any 3SGTE factory ECU, they're not set up for it.
It doesn't matter if the connector is there, they still use OBDI language.

You can still get some of the info off the connector, but you'd need some type of converter, the OBDII scanner will think nothing is there.

4thgenceli
12-03-2014, 12:06 AM
Yeah even though the gen4 has it the codes are all OBDi still. Would of been nice to have it OBDii though...

Luni
12-03-2014, 12:10 AM
Oh really?

Gen4 bitches. Oh yes it does too work. Jeremy, this aint like a 185 or 205. It does have native OBD2 in it. You just have to enable it, wire an OBD2 port to it, and get a diag tool to read it.

http://www.mr2oc.com/showthread.php?t=468691&highlight=st215+obd2+bluetooth

Luni
12-03-2014, 12:12 AM
A snippet from that thread..



New dongle works great, but I'm willing to bet the old one does too. I was looking at the female side of the pinout and got the pins backward. Duh...

It's very cool to have a bit of access to the OEM ecu. You can't see all the sensors, but you do have access to boost/map, IAT, coolant, volts, timing advance, throttle position, revs and probably a few more, along with all of the accelerometer and gps data through the phone. It will be fun testing out the dyno functions and 1/4 mile calculator :evillaugh

It's also nice to be able to scan for codes. Turns out my O2 sensor is bad (code for a bad heater circuit). I guess this is why my mpg has been mediocre.

These aren't actual values with the car running, just a screen shot of how I've played around with my display. There are a ton of themes.

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e125/Daddyl0nglegs/TorqueSS_zps7f97fef5.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/Daddyl0nglegs/media/TorqueSS_zps7f97fef5.jpg.html)

Eat it. :)

UtahSleeper
12-03-2014, 06:27 AM
Nice!!! I tried to connect to it the other day with no success. Guess I should verify the wiring and try again.

Luni
12-03-2014, 08:09 PM
So wait, you HAVE an OBD2 port wired in now?

UtahSleeper
12-03-2014, 09:49 PM
Yes, obd2 and diag port from wiregap. They really did a good job on it. Only complaint I have is some of the wiring is too thick for its own good.

alltracman78
12-04-2014, 12:35 AM
I don't think it's OBDII man. :(

Will it communicate with a regular OBDII scanner?

Are the codes P codes? Or are they still 2 digit codes?

It probably uses a similar communication protocol as OBDII, that doesn't make it OBDII.

Most Toyota ECUs have a signal wire to communicate that same info. You know that extra diagnostic mode that I'm always talking about? Jumping TE2? If the ECU has a TE2 pin it has a VF pin. Which is the communication wire. Just like SIL on the ST215.

Datastream [not on Torque Pro though] for the 185/205.
http://www.alltrac.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=49759

I will admit, I'm pretty surprised it even communicates that well with it. I wouldn't have thought it would. It definitely is good info. :)

UtahSleeper
12-04-2014, 01:43 AM
While it may not be OBD2 that US cars use, it is communicating in a way that can be viewed on Torque Pro with a bluetooth OBD2 dongle with the string from the thread Rob posted. I used it to find out my TPS is sitting at 10%, so I will have to adjust that later. I like the idea of being able to communicate with a cheap OBD2 dongle cause it will be nice when I install an Android stereo and can run Torque from it :)

Also, I know the ECU reports P codes cause there is documentation listing all the codes for the motor, just not sure if we can read those codes with the current dongles and such. Guess I will learn as I go. All these goodies are just getting me excited lol.

UtahSleeper
12-04-2014, 01:54 AM
Well, here is an update with pics :) She starts easily with no weird noises. I have driven her down the street, so it seems like everything is working to some degree.

As she sits now:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-12-03/001.JPG

And a better view of the motor:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-12-03/002.JPG

And the lack of clearance with the radiator. Looks like I will be setting up the fans as pushers:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-12-03/010.JPG

My precious Aeroform kit waiting to be installed:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-12-03/013.JPG

Random dash shot. I will be replacing the gauge cluster at some point:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-12-03/017.JPG

And a reason for my financial investment in all projects to start slowing lol:
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2014-12-03/021.JPG

UtahSleeper
12-05-2014, 04:18 AM
And this gives me excitement. Being able to connect Torque means I can get an Android stereo and use it for gauges.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/obd2Alltrac.jpg

Luni
12-05-2014, 09:56 PM
Hey Jeremy. Eat it. It connects to Torque, through an OBD2 port.

Its USING OBD2 protocol. Not the same stuff that bro uses for the TOYOBD1 stuff (he sent me one of those things BTW. I need to try it out)

UtahSleeper
01-04-2015, 10:47 PM
So, here is a small update of Fiona.

Summary:
-She starts and drive fairly well for no exhaust and a dead wheel bearing.
-Need to get new seats as I hate how heavy the stock ones are.
-I need to finish reassembling the interior.
-Still have to mount the hood and cut a hole for the IC.
-Immediate plans - Get a DP from Prime MR2 and an ebay exhaust for a st185 as it seems thos fit my Alltrac.

And here are some unexciting pictures.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-01-04/001.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-01-04/003.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-01-04/005.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-01-04/006.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-01-04/007.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-01-04/009.JPG

UtahSleeper
02-05-2015, 04:20 PM
Small update:

Finally replaced the bearing on my Alltrac with the help(read:I mostly sat there and let him do the work lol) of a friend.
Order a 3" DP and exhaust.
In the process of replacing the ball joints and outer tie rods on both sides.

Hope to have pics soon, just been spending alot of time on my oldest sons car, getting it ready for him to drive.

UtahSleeper
02-19-2015, 03:42 AM
Well, here is an up to date post.

Got my shiny new ebay exhaust. I didn't expect much from it, but I am happy with it.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/001.JPG

Prime MR2 DP. The cheapest one they sell, but I am happy with it.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/002.JPG

Old DP is gone.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/007.JPG

New DP installed and heatshield in place.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/008.JPG

All put back together.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/010.JPG

Test fitting the exhaust.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/012.JPG

Aeroform cut to make the exhaust fit. Need to make it look a little better.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/013.JPG

All in place.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/014.JPG

The hood, which is pre cut.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/025.JPG

Hood is cut and test fitted. Still need to trim and get a scoop.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/027.JPG

Starting to look like a real car again.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-02-18/030.JPG

Murgatroy
02-19-2015, 05:45 AM
I like it. I kinda like the hood as is. But I am one of those silly guys that likes bits of the engine sticking up through the hood. I never really outgrew that.

It has come a long way, I bet it is awesome to look at it and see a car again, isn't it?

Facime
02-20-2015, 01:49 AM
I would have suggested taking that exhaust to a muffler shop and having them tweak the pipe just a little rather than cut your bumper opening... :squint:

UtahSleeper
02-20-2015, 04:18 AM
I like it. I kinda like the hood as is. But I am one of those silly guys that likes bits of the engine sticking up through the hood. I never really outgrew that.

It has come a long way, I bet it is awesome to look at it and see a car again, isn't it?

Yes, it is. It was nice driving it a little till today. Something decided to start acting up. Now for the fun of troubleshooting.

UtahSleeper
02-20-2015, 04:20 AM
I would have suggested taking that exhaust to a muffler shop and having them tweak the pipe just a little rather than cut your bumper opening... :squint:

Yea, that would have been the smart thing, but I was impatient and wanted it installed then lol. Plus, its just fiberglass, so I can return it to normal later if it bugs me enough. That was the main reason for just going with it, FG is easy to work with and I kept the old piece.

UtahSleeper
05-22-2015, 01:36 AM
And now for a small update. Currently in the process of cleaning up rust around the windshield. While doing this I am also painting some interior pieces black and going to replace the headlines with a grey material. Here are some boring pics.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-05-21/010.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-05-21/012.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-05-21/013.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-05-21/014.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-05-21/015.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-05-21/016.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-05-21/017.JPG

Hoping to have thing buttoned up in the next couple weeks............hoping.

UtahSleeper
07-05-2015, 12:06 AM
Well, here is an update for Fiona/Alltrac. I am trying to button up alot of things to get her ready for the winter and the upcoming JTIN meet. So, here is her current status:

Here is how she sits now. New windshield, hole in hood, etc.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/001.JPG

I plan on attempting a FG hood scoop that bolts in. I also plan on looking through ebay incase there is a respectable option. Pardon my cuts, I dont have a steady hand.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/003.JPG

Interior assembled. I have started converting to a black and gray color scheme. The upper half of the interior has been done.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/004.JPG

More interior
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/005.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/009.JPG
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/010.JPG

Mounted the indigo/whatever dash light switch.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/011.JPG

Need to get an android stereo in there. Also have to start looking into the heater and make sure it works. Also need to get a decent shift knob and boot.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/012.JPG

Painted sunroof controls.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-07-04/013.JPG

Things that I need to do now.
-Fix/inspect heater/AC controls.
-New carpet because of PO hack job.
-Android car stereo.
-Install a non obnoxious hood scoop.
-Install wipers.
-Figure out new speaker layout.
-Convert rest of interior to black and gray.
-New seats(maybe 7th gen celica)
-MAYBE try and get Caldina AC compressor working with old system.
-And the many other things I will find along the way...........

UtahSleeper
08-13-2015, 05:02 AM
Well, small update with some repeating pictures lol.

She now has a temp tag and has been driven around my neighborhood a bit. Still needs alot of work, but some seems reasonable now. Atleast she should be making it to Tinners and JDM Legends.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/001.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/002.JPG

Where I assume an AC pressure switch use to be.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/003.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/004.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/005.JPG

The replaced headliner.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/006.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/007.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/008.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/009.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/010.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/011.JPG

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-12/012.JPG

Things that I need to do now.
-Alignment and tires
-Figure out clunk noise on passenger rear
-Figure out how to get the radiator fan to go off
-Fix/inspect heater/AC controls.
-New carpet because of PO hack job.
-Android car stereo.
-Install a non obnoxious hood scoop.
-Install wipers.
-Figure out new speaker layout.
-Convert rest of interior to black and gray.
-New seats(maybe 7th gen celica)
-MAYBE try and get Caldina AC compressor working with old system.
-And the many other things I will find along the way...........

UtahSleeper
08-15-2015, 03:03 AM
Well, here is some pics from my alltrac's first full day of driving. There was a JDM Legends meet today and I wanted the alltrac to make an appearance.

Pardon the cell phone pics.

Made it to work. Was nice to be able to actually take her somewhere.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_081106.jpg

And here are pics from the meet. JDML has some nice rides.
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_164021.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_164054.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_164102.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_171131.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_171146.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_171707.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172148.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172203.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172233.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172333.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172525.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172542.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172726.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172943.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_172958.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173014.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173029.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173040.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173057.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173105.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173147.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173155.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173207.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173215.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173224.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173233.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173342.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173354.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173413.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173424.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173435.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173448.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173502.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173514.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173542.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173554.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173618.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173627.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173653.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173704.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173730.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173739.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173827.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_173853.jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_183610.jpg

The alltrac and probe share a similar look(my sons car)
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2015-08-14/20150814_190925.jpg

UtahSleeper
12-17-2016, 09:33 AM
Well, time for a photo dump from the progress I have made. She has been driving fine. I just need to do struts and PS rack. Also thermostat. Engine stays way too cold for winter lol.

I have also decided I need to get me a spare radio bezel and retry making a gauge pod in the ash tray. Any way, random pics since the last update.

http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (15).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (16).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (17).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (18).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (19).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (20).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (21).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (22).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (23).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (24).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (25).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (26).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (27).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (28).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (29).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (30).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (31).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (32).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (33).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (34).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (35).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (36).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (37).jpg
http://www.mutsoftware.com/alltrac/2016-12-17/Alltrac (38).jpg

Nitro_Alltrac
12-18-2016, 07:35 PM
Car is coming along great!

What head unit are you using? That's pretty cool.

I've been out of the stereo scene for a good while and I'm not up the last things.

UtahSleeper
12-19-2016, 05:12 AM
Car is coming along great!

What head unit are you using? That's pretty cool.

I've been out of the stereo scene for a good while and I'm not up the last things.

Android stereo (https://www.amazon.com/Pumpkin-Android-Double-Navigation-Bluetooth/dp/B01ET3Z2Q0/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1482124216&sr=8-4&keywords=android+car+stereo+pumpkin)

This is what I am using. Boot time sucks a bit, but love having Torgue to see everything without a tablet in my windshield. Audio seems solid.