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klapa
10-01-2011, 01:39 AM
So - I am hoping to do a couple of jobs on evenings and weekends on my Alltrac before taking a week vacation or so mid-November to ream out the engine bay.

I have new front and rear engine mounts to install - and I would also like to get the speedo working during that process. The speedo is not working because the cable from the trans up to the second cable to the cluster is missing.

I thought I had the cable I need - but looking at Toyota DIY I kind of doubt it now, I have a cable from a 5SFE equipped 5th gen GT - and I don't think it will fit.

So - maybe I need to order this from the "stealership" - but I am confused about the "nomenclature".

Here is what I see on Toyota DIY:

33403 GEAR SUB-ASSY, SPEEDOMETER DRIVEN (MTM)
33403‑19405 ST185, N=30, MARK 30:35 (10/1989 - 01/1991) 1 $36.57
33403‑19406 ST185, N=30, MARK 30:35 (02/1991 - 08/1993) 1 $35.94
33404 SLEEVE SUB-ASSY, SPEEDOMETER SHAFT (MTM)
33404‑17010 ST185 1 $36.18

So - is this it?

I mean - in my mind - a speedometer "driven gear" IS the pinion inside the trans - and then this "sleeve" would be the cable sheath.

So - is all this needed for the "lower speedometer cable"? It is all pretty "pricey" - but I need it - I and and my ECU need to know how fast my car is going at any particular moment.

Anybody got an extra? :)

I suppose what I have off a 5SFE car will not fit?

klapa
10-01-2011, 02:21 PM
So - I answered my own question by calling the local dealer here that I go to for parts.

The speedo cable - BOTH of them - are in the electrical section of the parts manual - and the P/N for the cable on the trans (the "primary" cable") is 83710-20880 and it only cost about $9.

It is also the same for all 5th gen Celicas - a new feature on Toyota DIY hat you can search a P/N and get all the applications for it. I think I need to donate a little to those guyz.

Nitro_Alltrac
10-01-2011, 03:47 PM
That sleeve that is listed, the speedo gear set up is anything like an older GM tranny, is most likely what the gear rides in. The gear has a shaft on it and the shaft slides up in the sleeve and then there is some kind of retainer that holds the whole assembly in the transmission. The end of the cable would go into the end of the speedo gear. I know that is how the older GM set ups worked. I haven't ever pulled my Celica assembly apart but I would expect it to be similar.

klapa
10-01-2011, 04:37 PM
Hey Nitro!

Ya' know that Toyota dealer is the one you pointed out to me - they no longer have the online access to parts - as they told me that everybody just used their site to look up parts, or complained about wrong parts, etc.

Yet they still give "internet pricing" - and for me there is no shipping - so for a small order they are the way to go IMO.

One of the guys in that parts department has two Alltracs - so I never need to worry that they don't know what I am talking about or don't want to take time with me.

For the speedo stuff - I think Celicas are not like the cars you and I might be used to - where you would get a different pinion based on a rear-end ratio or tire/wheel size. I looked into that - there are not any different speedo pinion gears for these Celica cars. It is all based on outer wheel sizes being proportioned to your rear end and trans for all the different models and types, I think.

Still - I did find on Toyota DIY that the cable I need is the same for ANY 5th gen Celica - ST or AT. I am getting a new one for $9 - so that will be extra - as I already have a spare. I went ahead and got it anyway because the guy took so much of his time to help me and it can't really hurt to have a spare for $9 anyway.

That place has REALLY great customer service, but the service department is rather "pricey". ;)

The Captain
10-01-2011, 06:47 PM
I know the cable is different lengths with or without cruise control, btw.

klapa
10-02-2011, 01:22 AM
I know the cable is different lengths with or without cruise control, btw.

That makes some sense - as the cruise control seems to have been ripped out of my car - I have a non-standard steering wheel with no cruise control arm or air bag - and have extra cables in the engine bay which seem to be for the cruise.

So - either the speedo cable I got with the 3SGE "kit" I bought - or the one I ordered - or the one from my GTS (with cruise control) - one of them is bound to fit.

I will find out tomorrow as I plan to change my front and rear motor mounts and hookup the speedo during the process.

alltracman78
10-02-2011, 02:10 AM
$9 For the speedo cable?!
That sounds too cheap. Are you sure they got the right part?
I guess we find out when you get it. :)

klapa
10-02-2011, 02:27 AM
$9 For the speedo cable?!
That sounds too cheap. Are you sure they got the right part?
I guess we find out when you get it. :)

Yea - I agree - sure sounds cheap foe OEM, eh?

I'll find out - it is a $9 gamble! The guy told me that those parts had to come from California, so it might be a week. OK by me. Even if it was up to $20 I would buy it - though now that I know what I know I might balk - as I have a spare here.

The dust covers for the front knuckles were $9.90 each - and the snap rings for the knuckles were $2.20 each. I already bought the seals - and I will buy the torx bolts for the dust covers from McMaster-Carr.

It really does pay to check with the dealer first - as you know with those parts you get exactly what you need.

The Captain
10-02-2011, 03:12 AM
After I changed the engine in princess I couldn't figure out why the cable was as tight as a guitar string. Some dumbass forgot to put the cruise pickup back on top of the gear. LOL!

Nitro_Alltrac
10-02-2011, 04:43 AM
Hey Nitro!

Ya' know that Toyota dealer is the one you pointed out to me - they no longer have the online access to parts - as they told me that everybody just used their site to look up parts, or complained about wrong parts, etc.

I wondered why their website wasn't working. I'll have to call them. I've had great luck with them.

klapa
10-02-2011, 04:41 PM
I wondered why their website wasn't working. I'll have to call them. I've had great luck with them.

Yea - they still give the "internet pricing" - even when they have to help with the parts research - and they will ship.

There is a guy there "JP" who knows all about Alltracs - I was talking to him yesterday.

klapa
10-14-2011, 10:54 PM
$9 For the speedo cable?!
That sounds too cheap. Are you sure they got the right part?
I guess we find out when you get it. :)

Got it today and it is def a cable - looks like the thing I need.

Diff from my spare though - has like a rubber jacket (sheath) around the outside of it.

I'll take a pic tomorrow as I'm gonna start labeling the tangle of wires and lines that keep me from accessing the thing from above so I can put them all back where they came from, pull them all loose, and try to get that thing in there.

alltracman78
10-15-2011, 01:09 AM
Yeah, a pic would be great, thanks.

klapa
10-15-2011, 02:25 AM
So,

I compared my two cables - my "spare" that I got with the 3SGE "kit" that I bought - and this new one - they are very different:

A general pic of my latest parts from the dealer - cables included.

http://www.nashdom.com/GeneralPics/Parts1%20%28640%20x%20480%29.jpg

Note that the "spare cable" is allot longer than the new cable from the dealer.

A closer view:

http://www.nashdom.com/GeneralPics/Parts2%20%28640%20x%20480%29.jpg

So I will see what fits this weekend. The P/N on the new part - 83710-20880 comes up at Toyota DIY as the correct cable for a manual trans 5th gen.

AND - yep - it cost $8.88 - but don't forget the tax! Still - when "dealing with the dealer" - the shipping is on Toyota.

alltracman78
10-16-2011, 02:03 AM
Your spare is just missing the outer covering that the new one has.
Or it may be a different model didn't come with the covering.

I may be wrong, but that new one looks too short to me. The spare looks more like the right length.
Either way, I can't believe that was $9.

klapa
10-16-2011, 03:34 AM
I may be wrong, but that new one looks too short to me. The spare looks more like the right length.

I'll certainly go along with that - I have very large doubts that cable will fit where I need it to fit - I myself think that cable is "standard" for an USDM Alltrac because all USDM Alltrac's had cruise control and they were not like my Alltrac which has been hacked to pieces. I think my "spare" will do the trick and maybe I will keep my $9 cable in a glass case in my living room = perhqaps to sell it in ten years as a collectors item for possibly ten times what I paid for it.



Either way, I can't believe that was $9.

You don't believe I paid less than $10 for that from the Toyota dealer?

You got some money to put on the table there for the bet? Just kidding, lol :) - the thing cost #8.48 - "MSRP" is only $11.87. Of course I get the "Alltrac discount"!

Keeping in mind that I get this cable for ~$9 while I pay $120 for about eight rubber washers!

Oh well - I'm gonna try to get that thing in there today - as I have been judging my speed based on RPM, what gear I am in, and experience with my ST - which may well have different gear ratios.

It would also be nice to get rid of my CEL codes.

klapa
10-17-2011, 02:50 AM
Well I got beat up today anyway - CAR 1 - Klapa 0.

I went to tackle the thing from above AND below - I put it up on stands, pulled the suspension member - and was going to get this thing in from above with a flashlight and view from below.

But - so solly - no go Joe!

I thought I would have it as not only is my charcoal canister loose but also my fuel filter too - they are all just flopping around in there - just like a big mess. Yet the area where that speedo cable is accessible from above - this is in the area of another "zone" - more towards the center of the firewall - a place I call the "labyrinth".

So - no speedo for now - this place I call the labyrinth has at least 20 hoses in it - and it only about 1 square foot in area. It is not that I am afraid of it - it is just that I am afraid of it. I need to carefully label things there - as while I can look in the "BGB" that don't mean shit when it comes to this car.

It is always good - to get the thing on the ground at the end of the day - and then to take it out in the morning. Like this AM I took it out - and really wound it up for he first time I have ever done that - over 5K up to 6K RPM. IT WAS GREAT! What a feeling - it has POWER all the way up there! BUT - still the big vibrations - so time to wait for the next parts....

alltracman78
10-17-2011, 04:57 PM
I don't think the speedo cable is a different size for cruise and non cruise cars, the cruise has nothing physically to do with the speedo cable.
But, I've never checked so that may be wrong.

You don't need to pull much to do the cable, it's more a matter of patience.
I think all I pulled was the coil wire. Then I wiggled my hand in there and GENTLY played around. It took multiple tries.
If you do start pulling hoses and things, be careful, it may turn into more of a project than you anticipated.
Another reason not too. :)

klapa
10-17-2011, 07:05 PM
You don't need to pull much to do the cable, it's more a matter of patience.
I think all I pulled was the coil wire. Then I wiggled my hand in there and GENTLY played around. It took multiple tries.
If you do start pulling hoses and things, be careful, it may turn into more of a project than you anticipated.
Another reason not too. :)

Thanks - I think I'll give that a try first. Ultimately I'll need to clean up and replace all that wad of hoses and wiring - but I'm not looking forward to it - as my past experience with vacuum hoses is that many of the things they connect to have plastic nozzles that like to break. I gonna start labeling everything this week. I've got ties wraps with tags on them.

Carolina91GT-S
10-19-2011, 02:54 AM
I think the new one you bought is the one that goes from the actual speedo cluster through the firewall and into the engine bay. It's short, it then connects to another one that goes down to the XMSN and I remember that one being a bit longer.

Chris

alltracman78
10-22-2011, 09:06 PM
No, the one that goes through the firewall has a rubber grommet and is skinnier. It also is much longer, has a large green plastic end to it, and generally looks much different.

I was in my garage and took a look at one of my speedo cables. That does look to be the right length, I was thinking of it with the speed sensor attached, which makes it longer.

acidice333
10-22-2011, 10:05 PM
I remember that cable (that new one).. Its been awhile but I think its an extension because the MT doesnt have an extra sensor and the AT has a sensor.

alltracman78
10-23-2011, 12:36 AM
There is no AT for a ST185....